Why is lorry overtaking not banned?
Discussion
T0MMY said:
The trouble is that 0.5mph only adds up to about a 4 minute saving, even if you were stuck at that lower speed for an entire 8 hour day (or whatever the limit is these days) which isn't remotely realistic anyway. What pisses me off on the bit of the A14/A1 I use is that you are rarely more than 10 miles away from a 3 or 4 lane section so why not wait? 56 rather than 55.5 over 10 miles will save you less than 10 seconds!
Here endeth the thread....................Somebody with no knowledge of the regs by his own admission, yet expects others going about their business to hold on for 10 miles so he can do his oh so important overtake that bit quicker. Sorry mate but it's not often I would bite, especially on a site so full of morons but you really deserve some kind of award.
Here is a mind blowing suggestion for you to digest on your A14/A1 commute.......why don't YOU wait, chill out, listen to the radio, ring a transport manager on your Bluetooth and listen to them genuinely care about your BS complaints. Maybe try a different route, different time if possible because here is the bad news son.....you don't actually own the road, yep, it's used by other people who's journeys are equally as mundane as yours.
You, in the grand scheme of things, are just another driver. Sorry if that shocks you,really I am, but to actually suggest that others should just wait for 10 miles to make sure you get to your next paperclip and ring binder appointment is tragic, it's fair to say you may just have mugged yourself off fella. This was an unusually balanced topic until you piped up with your clear issues.
A truck driver allegedly nearly killed you, of course he did, therefore all of them are brainless killers.......plank.
Sorry if I have been a bit harsh, you seem a little sensitive to your own needs so maybe you should ask your mum for a cuddle to make things better, life can be really tough in the fast lane. Just do me a favour though, remind your mum I left her a tenner under the microwave, I owe for last week too.............
Harsh, yes.
Deserved, meh,probably not, but the "eight hours or whatever" comment shows why you should only whine about things you have a clue about, Christ , you could have googled HGV driving times and then posted rather than be lazy and post the horse manure this fella has...........
I'm off to sit in lane 2..............
Covered in egg stains.......
Trying to stop the hooker struggling from her ropes on my bunk........
Sticking to 55.5 mph.........
With no education.........
Earning less than minimum?
Not forgetting that he won't be delivering the paper clips and ring binders, he'll only be going to talk about them. Millions and millions of cars filling the m'ways daily, the majority of which wil have one occupant on his way to talk to somebody, all blaming someone else for the congestion.
You have to laugh at the OP - in his own words he's just started making a particular m'way journey, and he has the word 'banned' in his thread title.
You have to laugh at the OP - in his own words he's just started making a particular m'way journey, and he has the word 'banned' in his thread title.
NorfolkInClue1 said:
Here endeth the thread....................
Somebody with no knowledge of the regs by his own admission, yet expects others going about their business to hold on for 10 miles so he can do his oh so important overtake that bit quicker. Sorry mate but it's not often I would bite, especially on a site so full of morons but you really deserve some kind of award.
Here is a mind blowing suggestion for you to digest on your A14/A1 commute.......why don't YOU wait, chill out, listen to the radio, ring a transport manager on your Bluetooth and listen to them genuinely care about your BS complaints. Maybe try a different route, different time if possible because here is the bad news son.....you don't actually own the road, yep, it's used by other people who's journeys are equally as mundane as yours.
You, in the grand scheme of things, are just another driver. Sorry if that shocks you,really I am, but to actually suggest that others should just wait for 10 miles to make sure you get to your next paperclip and ring binder appointment is tragic, it's fair to say you may just have mugged yourself off fella. This was an unusually balanced topic until you piped up with your clear issues.
A truck driver allegedly nearly killed you, of course he did, therefore all of them are brainless killers.......plank.
Sorry if I have been a bit harsh, you seem a little sensitive to your own needs so maybe you should ask your mum for a cuddle to make things better, life can be really tough in the fast lane. Just do me a favour though, remind your mum I left her a tenner under the microwave, I owe for last week too.............
Harsh, yes.
Deserved, meh,probably not, but the "eight hours or whatever" comment shows why you should only whine about things you have a clue about, Christ , you could have googled HGV driving times and then posted rather than be lazy and post the horse manure this fella has...........
I'm off to sit in lane 2..............
Covered in egg stains.......
Trying to stop the hooker struggling from her ropes on my bunk........
Sticking to 55.5 mph.........
With no education.........
Earning less than minimum?
Jesus mate, calm downSomebody with no knowledge of the regs by his own admission, yet expects others going about their business to hold on for 10 miles so he can do his oh so important overtake that bit quicker. Sorry mate but it's not often I would bite, especially on a site so full of morons but you really deserve some kind of award.
Here is a mind blowing suggestion for you to digest on your A14/A1 commute.......why don't YOU wait, chill out, listen to the radio, ring a transport manager on your Bluetooth and listen to them genuinely care about your BS complaints. Maybe try a different route, different time if possible because here is the bad news son.....you don't actually own the road, yep, it's used by other people who's journeys are equally as mundane as yours.
You, in the grand scheme of things, are just another driver. Sorry if that shocks you,really I am, but to actually suggest that others should just wait for 10 miles to make sure you get to your next paperclip and ring binder appointment is tragic, it's fair to say you may just have mugged yourself off fella. This was an unusually balanced topic until you piped up with your clear issues.
A truck driver allegedly nearly killed you, of course he did, therefore all of them are brainless killers.......plank.
Sorry if I have been a bit harsh, you seem a little sensitive to your own needs so maybe you should ask your mum for a cuddle to make things better, life can be really tough in the fast lane. Just do me a favour though, remind your mum I left her a tenner under the microwave, I owe for last week too.............
Harsh, yes.
Deserved, meh,probably not, but the "eight hours or whatever" comment shows why you should only whine about things you have a clue about, Christ , you could have googled HGV driving times and then posted rather than be lazy and post the horse manure this fella has...........
I'm off to sit in lane 2..............
Covered in egg stains.......
Trying to stop the hooker struggling from her ropes on my bunk........
Sticking to 55.5 mph.........
With no education.........
Earning less than minimum?
The point I made was that doing 0.5mph extra over 10 miles will likely save you less than 10 seconds so yes, you should wait before doing your overtake.
As for me not bothering to check how long you can drive an HGV for on a stint, why would I, it's not relevant and I don't really care. I simply made the point that even if you drove for an 8 hour day you'd save bugger all time.
As for the rest of your frankly hilarious rant, well I don't have an office job and I didn't recite my road rage anecdote as proof that all lorry drivers are t
ts (quite obviously), just that one and now evidently your good self. As for your assertion that I could just chill out and wait, I don't own the road, etc., etc., well surely I could say the same about the lorry driver insisting on gaining his extra 0.5mph now couldn't I. Also there are more jobs in the world than either delivering paperclips or driving to meetings to discuss the sale of paperclips...it's just possible that some people in cars may also have quite important jobs to do that can't be done from home. I for example am a paperclip repairman so need to respond to calls of non-functioning paperclips all over the UK. Don't worry about being harsh to me, it's just an internet forum but for god's sake try and at least make some kind of sense during your rant or have a point that isn't self defeating. Love the way you brought in a mum insult though, like being at school again
Your mum is so fat, if she went on a hunger strike she'd die of old age
Edited by T0MMY on Sunday 18th January 02:19
The Vambo said:
As with commuters, cyclists and motorcyclists, some LGV drivers are just dicks and could care less about anyone else.
And the M8 eastbound on the rise between the Showcase cinema and Shawhead desperately needs a restriction keeping all heavy traffic in lane 1.
Or a more productive view would be that it needs an extra lane.And the M8 eastbound on the rise between the Showcase cinema and Shawhead desperately needs a restriction keeping all heavy traffic in lane 1.
Why is overtaking in anything allowed? The times in my 34 years I've come closest to dying have been when some tt has overtaken someone whilst I've been on coming. Happened about 3 times.
My friend had a head on years ago and was in hospital for weeks because of this. If you're so impatient you cannot go a little slower for a while then you should not really be driving. There are trains, buses, bicycles and even taxis for people without any self control
t has overtaken someone whilst I've been on coming. Happened about 3 times.My friend had a head on years ago and was in hospital for weeks because of this. If you're so impatient you cannot go a little slower for a while then you should not really be driving. There are trains, buses, bicycles and even taxis for people without any self control
itdontgo said:
Why is overtaking in anything allowed? The times in my 34 years I've come closest to dying have been when some tt has overtaken someone whilst I've been on coming. Happened about 3 times.
My friend had a head on years ago and was in hospital for weeks because of this. If you're so impatient you cannot go a little slower for a while then you should not really be driving. There are trains, buses, bicycles and even taxis for people without any self control
We are talking about motorways & dual carriageways, plus there's nothing wrong with overtaking, but there's lots wrong with a bad overtake/bad driving. t has overtaken someone whilst I've been on coming. Happened about 3 times.My friend had a head on years ago and was in hospital for weeks because of this. If you're so impatient you cannot go a little slower for a while then you should not really be driving. There are trains, buses, bicycles and even taxis for people without any self control
GC8 said:
I'ts an emotive topic.
Inescapably, most car drivers vociferously airing their opinions know very little about the topic and their calls come from a position of entitlement and self-importance, rather than knowledge and understanding.
I can guarantee any car drivers learning to drive an HGV, an epiphany.
I generally keep out of threads like this for those reasons.Inescapably, most car drivers vociferously airing their opinions know very little about the topic and their calls come from a position of entitlement and self-importance, rather than knowledge and understanding.
I can guarantee any car drivers learning to drive an HGV, an epiphany.
However, to the frothers, it is perhaps worth pointing out that when the HGV lane restriction is in effect on the M42 northbound at peak periods, if us truckers are the cause of all the congestion, why is it that the now truck-free lane 2 more often than not travels at a slower speed than lane 1 and all the cars then want to be in "our" lane as it's moving quicker?
I would actually like to see non-HGV vehicles banned from lane 1 on these "journey time trial" sections and then we'll see who the real cause of the congestion is.
ZX10R NIN said:
We are talking about motorways & dual carriageways, plus there's nothing wrong with overtaking, but there's lots wrong with a bad overtake/bad driving.
Here lies the crux of the matter.One truck spending 2 minutes overtaking his mate on a quiet dual carriageway won't make any significant difference to the car that catches him up.
On a packed motorway at rush hour, when no bugger gets above 50mph anyway, again it makes no difference to anyone.
The problem comes when you've got a moderately busy but free flowing stretch, with the left lane at 55ish mph and the right lane at 70. Under that circumstance the wagon pulling out for his 2 minute overtake causes the faster traffic behind to brake and bunch up ("concertina effect" is the term, I believe). Once this happens more than a couple of times the cumulative effect can generate a small tailback, as the following traffic doesn't have chance to recover the distance between vehicles and so the bunching up extends further back each time.
Some truckers have the good sense to avoid pulling out in those conditions as they realise that the overall effect is greater than just a couple of cars held up for a moment. Others don't, these tend to be the same ones that view indicating as something to try mid-lane change.
s
t driving is st driving, whether you're in an Aygo or a Scania. An articulated lorry is just under 20m long. If it takes a minute for one lorry to pass another, the speed differential is less than 1mph.
Over 200 miles the difference in time between 55mph and 56mph is just under 4 minutes.
The difference between a car doing the same journey at 56mph and 70mph is more than 40 minutes.
As HeeBee quite rightly points out, there are a lot more cars on the road than lorries.
The facts above illustrate why lorries overtaking one another with minimal speed differential cause a disproportionate delay on the roads.
Each overtaking lorry is going to hold up multiple cars. For each car being delayed, the delay itself has around 10 times more impact on their journey time than that faced by the lorry.
It isn't about whose journey is more important. It's about which behaviours impact traffic flow and the justification behind them.
You might argue that a lorry, holding up a line of traffic to gain himself a maximum of 4 minutes over 200 miles, is causing disproportionate disruption by holding up multiple car drivers and making them lose considerably more time than he stands to gain.
Over 200 miles the difference in time between 55mph and 56mph is just under 4 minutes.
The difference between a car doing the same journey at 56mph and 70mph is more than 40 minutes.
As HeeBee quite rightly points out, there are a lot more cars on the road than lorries.
The facts above illustrate why lorries overtaking one another with minimal speed differential cause a disproportionate delay on the roads.
Each overtaking lorry is going to hold up multiple cars. For each car being delayed, the delay itself has around 10 times more impact on their journey time than that faced by the lorry.
It isn't about whose journey is more important. It's about which behaviours impact traffic flow and the justification behind them.
You might argue that a lorry, holding up a line of traffic to gain himself a maximum of 4 minutes over 200 miles, is causing disproportionate disruption by holding up multiple car drivers and making them lose considerably more time than he stands to gain.
allergictocheese said:
It isn't about whose journey is more important. It's about which behaviours impact traffic flow and the justification behind them.
But it really is when you look at the nubbin of the complaint. I think a simplistic time distance and lorry length argument is not really applicable? If it were true then the roads would still be locked up from last week I would have thought? I see the stupid long overtake and the quick. I also see car driver pull worse stunts and in a limited van, I see the people mooching along in a car a fractions lower than me and speed up when I try to pass.This is really a larger picture. How many car drivers stick to the limit, do not use a mobile and not drive like an absolute cock, read their meeting notes when driving, and so on. You can level a whole load of issues to both camps. But I do not think any buttons for a quick over take etc etc are going to make a difference, there is just too much traffic on the road and we want the benefits though do not understand how they happen. You start hobbling the HGV with stupid rules and it will start to cost. I believe the fine for time over on a taco is quite a lot for a driver and the operator can get hauled in as well. I minute can be quite serious.
Mind you, when the EU has limiters fitted to your car, you want and see what it is like when everyone is bouncing off the limiter......
_T0MMY said:
Jesus mate, calm down
The point I made was that doing 0.5mph extra over 10 miles will likely save you less than 10 seconds so yes, you should wait before doing your overtake.
There lies the clue that reveals how you fail to understand.The point I made was that doing 0.5mph extra over 10 miles will likely save you less than 10 seconds so yes, you should wait before doing your overtake.
Generally speaking, no truck ever does an extra .5 mph.
At no point will he be doing any extra speed, and at no point will he be saving any time.
Now, see if you can figure out what I mean.
allergictocheese said:
An articulated lorry is just under 20m long. If it takes a minute for one lorry to pass another, the speed differential is less than 1mph.
Over 200 miles the difference in time between 55mph and 56mph is just under 4 minutes.
The difference between a car doing the same journey at 56mph and 70mph is more than 40 minutes.
As HeeBee quite rightly points out, there are a lot more cars on the road than lorries.
The facts above illustrate why lorries overtaking one another with minimal speed differential cause a disproportionate delay on the roads.
Each overtaking lorry is going to hold up multiple cars. For each car being delayed, the delay itself has around 10 times more impact on their journey time than that faced by the lorry.
It isn't about whose journey is more important. It's about which behaviours impact traffic flow and the justification behind them.
You might argue that a lorry, holding up a line of traffic to gain himself a maximum of 4 minutes over 200 miles, is causing disproportionate disruption by holding up multiple car drivers and making them lose considerably more time than he stands to gain.
As a car driver, I think I have been delayed by hgvs so few a time over the past 30 odd years that it's simply not worth talking about.Over 200 miles the difference in time between 55mph and 56mph is just under 4 minutes.
The difference between a car doing the same journey at 56mph and 70mph is more than 40 minutes.
As HeeBee quite rightly points out, there are a lot more cars on the road than lorries.
The facts above illustrate why lorries overtaking one another with minimal speed differential cause a disproportionate delay on the roads.
Each overtaking lorry is going to hold up multiple cars. For each car being delayed, the delay itself has around 10 times more impact on their journey time than that faced by the lorry.
It isn't about whose journey is more important. It's about which behaviours impact traffic flow and the justification behind them.
You might argue that a lorry, holding up a line of traffic to gain himself a maximum of 4 minutes over 200 miles, is causing disproportionate disruption by holding up multiple car drivers and making them lose considerably more time than he stands to gain.
If you use the ,'ways at night you can romp all over the country virtually unimpeded despite possibly there being more hgvs on the road than by day.
If instead you choose to use the m'ways when they are already full, then you will not only be delayed but you will be contributing to that congestion too.
Every night the m'ways run free and clear, and every single working day morning without exception they grind, literally, to a halt. And all you guys doing that all blame somebody else, which is absolute nonsense.
Reading this thread it strikes me that lorry drivers seem to think they are the only ones with time constraints. That is simply not the case. Many people have to be places on time to ensure that essential services are delivered.
A truck loses less time doing 54mph instead of 56mph than a car driver on the m6 who is forced to do 60 rather than 70 because of trucks elephant racing for mile after mile.
And then you get the fk wit truck drivers so close together that you can't move over to exit the motorway safely.
A truck loses less time doing 54mph instead of 56mph than a car driver on the m6 who is forced to do 60 rather than 70 because of trucks elephant racing for mile after mile.
And then you get the f
k wit truck drivers so close together that you can't move over to exit the motorway safely. Edited by blueg33 on Sunday 18th January 10:45
heebeegeetee said:
There lies the clue that reveals how you fail to understand.
Generally speaking, no truck ever does an extra .5 mph.
At no point will he be doing any extra speed, and at no point will he be saving any time.
Now, see if you can figure out what I mean.
I genuinely can't, please explain.Generally speaking, no truck ever does an extra .5 mph.
At no point will he be doing any extra speed, and at no point will he be saving any time.
Now, see if you can figure out what I mean.
If a lorry is doing 0.5mph more than another one, that is "extra speed" isn't it? I'm talking about one doing 56 coming up behind one doing 55.5 and pulling an overtake. If he then does 56 instead of 55.5 I'm pretty sure if I remember my speed and distance equations correctly that he will be saving a (negligible) amount of time.
blueg33 said:
Reading this thread it strikes me that lorry drivers seem to think they are the only ones with time constraints. That is sply not the case. Many people have to be placed on time to endure that essential services are delivered.
Yes, I was getting the impression from this thread that lorry drivers seem to have quite an inflated sense of self importance. Dismissing all car drivers as pointless pen pushing middle managers who can't possibly have anything more important to do than them 
Edited by T0MMY on Sunday 18th January 10:31
Actually been serious?
Lorries have has much right to overtake as we do!
You have one lorry loaded at 44T going up hill with a 440bhp engine and another lorry with 750bhp engine - both fully loaded, both going up the same hill. Who is gonna get there first? If you didn't allow to overtake - the motorways would be stupidly packed in the inside lane!
Lorries have has much right to overtake as we do!
You have one lorry loaded at 44T going up hill with a 440bhp engine and another lorry with 750bhp engine - both fully loaded, both going up the same hill. Who is gonna get there first? If you didn't allow to overtake - the motorways would be stupidly packed in the inside lane!
GC8 said:
He makes a very good point.
Car forums seem to be full of people who can't read and write properly, but who think that lorry drivers are their social inferiors.
In many cases they are grossly misinformed.
Simon - public school educated HGV licence holder.
I'm not really seeing that in this thread to be honest, in fact quite the opposite. Quite a few from the HGV camp have dismissed all the car drivers on the road as being unimportant minions doing non-essential jobs. Car forums seem to be full of people who can't read and write properly, but who think that lorry drivers are their social inferiors.
In many cases they are grossly misinformed.
Simon - public school educated HGV licence holder.
I'm not saying I don't think lorries should do 5 minute overtakes on D/Cs out of a sense of superiority over them. It's a simple logical point about the tiny time saving for them vs the much larger time lost for numerous cars as a result. I'm not even suggesting a blanket ban, just that it would be nice if they put a bit of thought into whether their overtake is really worthwhile sometimes.
Edited by T0MMY on Sunday 18th January 10:41
blueg33 said:
Reading this thread it strikes me that lorry drivers seem to think they are the only ones with time constraints. That is simply not the case. Many people have to be places on time to ensure that essential services are delivered.
So leave adequate time for the journey, how many car drivers are risking being turned away together with their goods from wherever they are going for being 15 minutes late?NorfolkInClue1 said:
Sorry if I have been a bit harsh, you seem a little sensitive to your own needs so maybe you should ask your mum for a cuddle to make things better, life can be really tough in the fast lane. Just do me a favour though, remind your mum I left her a tenner under the microwave, I owe for last week too.............
I'm embarrassed on your behalf.Jonny_ said:
st driving is st driving, whether you're in an Aygo or a Scania.
t driving is st driving, whether you're in an Aygo or a Scania. 
Jonny_ said:
Here lies the crux of the matter.
One truck spending 2 minutes overtaking his mate on a quiet dual carriageway won't make any significant difference to the car that catches him up.
On a packed motorway at rush hour, when no bugger gets above 50mph anyway, again it makes no difference to anyone.
The problem comes when you've got a moderately busy but free flowing stretch, with the left lane at 55ish mph and the right lane at 70. Under that circumstance the wagon pulling out for his 2 minute overtake causes the faster traffic behind to brake and bunch up ("concertina effect" is the term, I believe). Once this happens more than a couple of times the cumulative effect can generate a small tailback, as the following traffic doesn't have chance to recover the distance between vehicles and so the bunching up extends further back each time.
Some truckers have the good sense to avoid pulling out in those conditions as they realise that the overall effect is greater than just a couple of cars held up for a moment. Others don't, these tend to be the same ones that view indicating as something to try mid-lane change.
st driving is st driving, whether you're in an Aygo or a Scania.
One truck spending 2 minutes overtaking his mate on a quiet dual carriageway won't make any significant difference to the car that catches him up.
On a packed motorway at rush hour, when no bugger gets above 50mph anyway, again it makes no difference to anyone.
The problem comes when you've got a moderately busy but free flowing stretch, with the left lane at 55ish mph and the right lane at 70. Under that circumstance the wagon pulling out for his 2 minute overtake causes the faster traffic behind to brake and bunch up ("concertina effect" is the term, I believe). Once this happens more than a couple of times the cumulative effect can generate a small tailback, as the following traffic doesn't have chance to recover the distance between vehicles and so the bunching up extends further back each time.
Some truckers have the good sense to avoid pulling out in those conditions as they realise that the overall effect is greater than just a couple of cars held up for a moment. Others don't, these tend to be the same ones that view indicating as something to try mid-lane change.
s
t driving is st driving, whether you're in an Aygo or a Scania. 
This is why I believe trucks that have EBC systems fitted should be able to do 65mph, less tailbacks traffic flowing better, Truck drivers less stressed about running out of driving hours & missing load slots.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ridS396W2BY
There are cars that would fail to stop as quick as the truck in those conditions.
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