Rip off garages alive and well.

[Shuvi McTupya]

bearman68 said:

I'm probably unemployable as an engineer now. I hate sitting down,love working with my hands, and love to fix the most difficult problems I can find. No-one seems to want that in an engineer any more. Usually I've been rapidly promoted to manager where my people management skills are simply not good enough for a big organisation that usually spends more time talking about things than doing. My business partner is just as bad, maybe worse. We're great at fixing things, less good at working in a seamless team. (Just think of the heartache it took to find that out).
I've also got a family, with 2 young boys. I see them every day, on and off to school. I walk the 100 yds to work, and I can keep an eye on my 'starting to age' parents, so although I don't earn a fortune, my life is pretty good, and my wife is able to work in her medical job to keep the money coming in.
The long term financial commitment sneaks up on you. A subscription here,and a new bit of kit there. A concrete floor somewhere else, and before long, you end up with substantial sums tied up, and a customer base it feels wrong to let down.
One of my boys is looking like he will be a bad scholar, but very good with his hands - there might well be a business there to pass over to him in due course, so that helps a little as well.

Ah, I can understand that!

Cheers

[ian in lancs]

stevesingo said:

Friends E93 M3 failed to start after standing for 2 weeks. The symptoms were the same as a previous non-start event which turned out to be the Car Access System (CAS) unit which was replaced a year ago. Stuck 100miles from home, he called BMW Assist (BMW Assist are part of BMW UK and not affiliated to a franchise) who came out and ran a diagnostic. Sure enough the fault code showed the CAS unit to be faulty again. The BMW Assist tech checked the multiplug connector and checked for water ingress. He pointed out to my friend that there was no evidence of after ingress, to the point where the tech showed him the dust on the unit, indicating that it was dry. The Tech said that as the part was dealer fitted and genuine, it would be covered by warranty, so the car was recovered to a local dealer along with the BMW Assist diagnostic report.

The dealer, tells friend they will run another diagnostic and get back to him. A couple of days later the dealer calls and says the diagnostic indicates a wiring issue, and not a CAS unit fault and this would require 3hr of diagnostic work to trace the fault at £100+ per hour +VAT, he is without a car so says crack on. At this point he asks my advice and I tell him that the only reason there would be a wiring fault is if the loom has been damaged by accident or other work being badly carried out. Unless there is water in the connectors.

Another couple of days goes by and the dealer calls saying the wiring is fine and the fault is with the CAS unit due to water ingress and that the dealer has disconnected the CAS unit as it is only used for touch entry or some such (I believe it is related to the alarm immobiliser) and he has the bill to pay for the recovery (which he was prepared to take on the chin) and now the diagnostic. My friend calls me and is a little miffed, so I tell him to get hold of BMW Assist and get the report from them which states that checks were made for water ingress and there was no evidence.

He is now taking it up with BMW UK as the BMW Assist tech called him back and agreed that there was no water and these types of 2nd diagnosis are common from the franchised dealers.

The questions he has are;

1, Why was the BMW Assist diagnostic disregarded?
2, When the 2nd diagnostic came up with a wiring issue, why did it take 3hrs of diagnostic time to identify water ingress?
3, Where is the water coming from, when there was no evidence of water on initial diagnosis by BMW Assist?

IMO, the dealer has run a diagnostic and interpreted the result differently to the BMW Assist Tech. They have then gone down a blind alley due to this misinterpretation and wasted 3hrs of labour which they don't want to pay for themselves. They are now inventing some cock and bull so the customer picks up the tab.

This is currently ongoing, so we will see...

Had the same crap for a bmw crankshaft sensor. Bmw assist diagnostics and they told the service desk who wrote it down. Warranty excess £250, bill for £249 including 50 diagnostics. I assume warranty claiming is an effort for them....

Told the service manager I wasn’t paying for repeat diagnostics and he tried to bs me. I’m an engineer who in the past designed engine control systems and diagnostic systems. He gave in and I didn’t pay and will never go back to that dealer again. I have since bought two cars, 3 services and other work done elsewhere. Shortsighted tt

[Shuvi McTupya]

southendpier said:

I think 65 quid but I also wanted them to get a master key to remove a locking well nut hat would be an hours work. Nedless to say the warm up couldn't be done at the same time as the locking wheel nut issue. Car wasn't even sorted when I went to pick it up at the agreed time and I'm sure was done in the hour I sat in the showroom. First and last time I ever went there. They tried to get me back by offering to wash my car if I did a service with them.....err no thank you.

Bloody gangsters

I managed to lose my locking wheel nut key but luckily it wasn't urgent so I bought one on ebay..I did make a mistake and bought the wrong one at first but the seller took it back.

On the second attempt I got the correct one, for £8. Glad I didn't have to take it to BMW for them to sort out!

[Andyjc86]

S.H.A.D.O. said:

Good post bearman

Our garage has its share of expert customers ("I read on a forum its an easy job and will only take 10 minutes") lol

I'm sure you will be familiar

Ah the old YouTube mechanic.

I’d rather not take the job on, then be told how to do it by an IT wizard who watched it and read about a guy in New Zealand who had a similar fault.

[sim72]

My local indie is superb on this type of thing, if the part isn't something they can get from the local factors they'll say something like (this was in reference to a new turbo for a 15 year old T4)

"A new one is X quid, a refurb is Y quid, but if you go and source it yourself, make sure it's [brand & technical details], and if it's a refurb that it's got a 2 year warranty". So I did. They made their money from fitting it, and I'll be back there next time I need something doing.

[jamoor]

Nanook said:

There's no 'justifying' going on. He's paid for equipment, he needs to cover that cost. That is done by charging customers. This is basic stuff!

Also, £1k well get you approx. fk all diagnostic equipment these days, go take a look at what some of this stuff costs. A friend that runs a successful specialist garage has just spent £30k ish on new diagnostic equipment courtesy of Snap On. He's also having to spend time paying his mechanics whilst they're completing all the online and on the tools training for this equipment. It's a very impressive set up.

And yes, you'll usually find they do do that with other tools.

Wheel alignment equipment for example. Also welding, last time I paid anyone to do some, was charged per inch.
If you don't want them to charge extra for using the kit, that £70.hr is going to increase, how else do you think this is going to work?

I think this is the problem, almost everything in the motor trade is overpriced unbelievable levels. 30k on a diagnostic machine?

That's thirty iphone x's worth that will have infinitely more processing power and features and functionality (the code that goes into ios will be far more advanced than a snap on diagnostic machine).
Why do dealers need a specialist machine that cost thousands to interact with an ecu on a car anyway? Why can't it just be a simple straightforward computer?
And somehow we are expected to think it's ok?
Purposefully manufacturing parts to fail to ensure dealers have something to do and are kept happy with continuous custom and keep parts depts busy, and we are expected to think it's ok?
Timing belts vs chains? What's that all about, why not just have chains. We all know why that's the case.
It really is an very bad industry, however we are lucky as change is very much around the corner and some car dealers and possibly manufacturers will go bankrupt very quickly.
Also this is all coming from someone who is actually in the motor trade and knows what a st show it all is. The Germans are the worst as they have been operating a cartel for ages.

We have all been conditioned to accept utter ste and think it's all part and parcel of running a car. simple as.

Edited by jamoor on Thursday 16th November 00:44

Edited by jamoor on Thursday 16th November 00:47

[wolf1]

We charge a set hourly rate for the following reasons/overheads

Rent
Business rates
Electricity
Water and drainage
Heating
Phone and Internet
Toilet roll (I'm sure the bds eat it or take it home with the amount we use!)
Cleaning services and products
Waste disposal (inert and hazardous waste)
Insurance (vehicle, public liability, building, theft etc etc)
Staff wages
Staff training
Staff workwear
Equipment calibration
Equipment maintenance and testing
Equipment replacement/modernisation
Equipment software licensing/updating/subscription
Trade plate fees/licensing/vehicle tax
Vehicle maintenance/upkeep and depreciation
Fuel
Equipment rental
Employers NI contributions
Employers tax contributions
Employers pension contributions
Accountancy fees
Tax
Trade body memberships
Card machine fees
Banking fees
Advertising
Breakages
Pest control (including the daily 20 or so cold callers who want to "save me money!" )
etc
etc
etc

And that's before I get a look in to pay myself enough to pay my personal overheads

Due to decades of experience we never fit customer supplied parts, especially second hand parts. It's not about the markup but the pure ball ache of having a ramp dead because the customer supplied parts either don't fit or were so cheap they didn't even last beyond being fitted never mind a minimum of 12 months use and it's always our fault ! Then we have the knock on chaos this creates with work scheduled for later as that gets bumped which is our fault as well. Not to mention the pissing and moaning I get off the staff who now have to do that wheel bearing job on the floor with jacks instead of on the ramp where it's easier and quicker (usually the grumbling is dispelled with the bellowed reply of "well you could do it outside in the pissing rain if you want or you can make do without a ramp" but you might want to avoid having them make you a brew in case the little buggers fancy a touch of liquid revenge.)

Diagnostic charge? (ie actually diagnosing the fault not just plugging a computer in for ten minutes as the general public would have you believe is all that happens, but using knowledge gained from working in the trade for years and using a varied array of equipment and techniques to pinpoint the cause and advise on the correct remedy and not just loading the parts cannon and blasting away till you get it right) We don't charge per se unless you just want us to tell you what it is so your mate can fix it for less or free etc. Then we charge on a time spent basis but will knock it off the bill if the work is carried out by ourselves.

Ripping customers off and other general shenanigans such as ragging customers cars down the nearest NSL country lanes en route to collect parts from the motor factors and the lads chippy dinners whilst rubbing the workshop cats arse with the customers dash cam lens and power lead ? Christ, if I had time for all that malarkey I'd book more work in so I could earn a decent living.

All in all I still wonder why the fk I bother with this lark as it always seems as it's a hiding to nothing. Stress, border line alcoholism, hands that permanently look like they've been chewed by a demented Rottweiler and a general weariness with the "my mate can do it fer nowt/I read on a forum/I watched a youtube video and it only takes ten minutes" brigade. At least I've kept my sense of humor

[Shuvi McTupya]

jamoor said:

I think this is the problem, almost everything in the motor trade is overpriced unbelievable levels. 30k on a diagnostic machine?

Good point!!

That is bloody obscene when you think about it.
It is a computer /laptop in a fancy case, maybe on wheels? with some probes and stuff?

I wouldn't even imagine the computer part of it is anything special, I don't see why it would need to be? My diagnostic software runs on a tablet or smartphone, just what kind of software is it that requires 30k of computer ??

Is it just the branding and licensing that bumps up the cost, in other words is it the garage being totally ripped off with bloated costs?

Looking at something like a tyre changing machine these days..they are ridiculous! All shiny flashy computerised bits of kit that make the job much faster and less labour intensive for the mechanic but more expensive for the customer.
It doesn't make any difference to me if you spent £15k? on that bit of kit, my tyres always worked just fine when they were done before these machines became the norm!

I like the suggestion a previous poster made about the option of having different chargeable rates depending on what is being done.

If the trainee is changing brake discs that should be a low rate. It can be done in a bloody field with some hand tools. If the job requires a qualified diagnostic engineer and the engine being taken apart or the car being rewired etc then that would be a higher rate.

[Little Pete]

Shuvi McTupya said:

Good point!!

That is bloody obscene when you think about it.
It is a computer /laptop in a fancy case, maybe on wheels? with some probes and stuff?

I wouldn't even imagine the computer part of it is anything special, I don't see why it would need to be? My diagnostic software runs on a tablet or smartphone, just what kind of software is it that requires 30k of computer ??

Is it just the branding and licensing that bumps up the cost, in other words is it the garage being totally ripped off with bloated costs?

Looking at something like a tyre changing machine these days..they are ridiculous! All shiny flashy computerised bits of kit that make the job much faster and less labour intensive for the mechanic but more expensive for the customer.
It doesn't make any difference to me if you spent £15k? on that bit of kit, my tyres always worked just fine when they were done before these machines became the norm!

I like the suggestion a previous poster made about the option of having different chargeable rates depending on what is being done.

If the trainee is changing brake discs that should be a low rate. It can be done in a bloody field with some hand tools. If the job requires a qualified diagnostic engineer and the engine being taken apart or the car being rewired etc then that would be a higher rate.

Dealer level software-and that is where the costs are, not the hardware- is way beyond any diagnostic software you have. I'm not a big fan of main dealers but they have to be able to communicate with every ecu on the vehicle, including doing software updates. This is the level of equipment the top workshops have. Times that by a number of manufacturers to get market coverage and you can see where the money goes. Now, as for the "technician" being able to use this kit, that's another story.

[-Ad-]

f1nn said:

There is just so much bullst spouted on threads like these.

I can't wait to hear the myriad of tales about how the main dealer wanted more for an oil change than what it cost to do it yourself using oil from the pound shop.

FFS, buying your own parts to save a couple of quid...how tight do you have to be!

A couple of quid in our case........ was many of these little quid coins.

Me: Hi, I'd like to book in the car for the first service (Oil change, cabin filter)?
Dealership: £180 sir.
Me: If I supply my own correct spec oil?
Dealership: £100 sir.
Me: Grand, we'll go with the 2nd option (seems reasonable considering the cabin filter and overall 1000000 point check).

£80 pound saving for what would cost me online £25-30 for 6l, which is consumer rates not even trade naturally.

Recently been down to the groups parts counter TPS (who are great) and found I can get the correct spec fully synthetic oil for £12 for 5l (also do a 20l cube for £40). Wowzer, £80 charge for oil that they'll have bought in huge quantities!

But the dealership did do a good job, service done quickly, then links come through to my phone of the underside video walkaround. Nail in a tyre (£25) to repair properly (gets authorised swiftly as car is there and it'll be done immediately), then he shows x3 tyre depth readings across the central 75% tread areas on all 4 tyres, all averaging out to around 3.5mm, advising us these are getting low on the front outer shoulders but should be good for a few thousands miles yet. .

But then on giving me the invoice there's the famous £1.80 charge for washer fluid that they still add on. I completely brimmed it just before driving down for the service, so unless you've drained reservoir from a quick few second test, it would still be full. Don't like this practise and the guy was a little shocked when I mentioned it needed to come off. Thankfully he was quick as I was standing about the showroom in my road bike lycra kit likely making women cry at my less-than-temple-like body.

Not bad Obama.jpg

Edited by -Ad- on Thursday 16th November 08:50

[coldel]

wolf1 said:

We charge a set hourly rate for the following reasons/overheads

Rent
Business rates
Electricity
Water and drainage
Heating
Phone and Internet
Toilet roll (I'm sure the bds eat it or take it home with the amount we use!)
Cleaning services and products
Waste disposal (inert and hazardous waste)
Insurance (vehicle, public liability, building, theft etc etc)
Staff wages
Staff training
Staff workwear
Equipment calibration
Equipment maintenance and testing
Equipment replacement/modernisation
Equipment software licensing/updating/subscription
Trade plate fees/licensing/vehicle tax
Vehicle maintenance/upkeep and depreciation
Fuel
Equipment rental
Employers NI contributions
Employers tax contributions
Employers pension contributions
Accountancy fees
Tax
Trade body memberships
Card machine fees
Banking fees
Advertising
Breakages
Pest control (including the daily 20 or so cold callers who want to "save me money!" )
etc
etc
etc

And that's before I get a look in to pay myself enough to pay my personal overheads

Due to decades of experience we never fit customer supplied parts, especially second hand parts. It's not about the markup but the pure ball ache of having a ramp dead because the customer supplied parts either don't fit or were so cheap they didn't even last beyond being fitted never mind a minimum of 12 months use and it's always our fault ! Then we have the knock on chaos this creates with work scheduled for later as that gets bumped which is our fault as well. Not to mention the pissing and moaning I get off the staff who now have to do that wheel bearing job on the floor with jacks instead of on the ramp where it's easier and quicker (usually the grumbling is dispelled with the bellowed reply of "well you could do it outside in the pissing rain if you want or you can make do without a ramp" but you might want to avoid having them make you a brew in case the little buggers fancy a touch of liquid revenge.)

Diagnostic charge? (ie actually diagnosing the fault not just plugging a computer in for ten minutes as the general public would have you believe is all that happens, but using knowledge gained from working in the trade for years and using a varied array of equipment and techniques to pinpoint the cause and advise on the correct remedy and not just loading the parts cannon and blasting away till you get it right) We don't charge per se unless you just want us to tell you what it is so your mate can fix it for less or free etc. Then we charge on a time spent basis but will knock it off the bill if the work is carried out by ourselves.

Ripping customers off and other general shenanigans such as ragging customers cars down the nearest NSL country lanes en route to collect parts from the motor factors and the lads chippy dinners whilst rubbing the workshop cats arse with the customers dash cam lens and power lead ? Christ, if I had time for all that malarkey I'd book more work in so I could earn a decent living.

All in all I still wonder why the fk I bother with this lark as it always seems as it's a hiding to nothing. Stress, border line alcoholism, hands that permanently look like they've been chewed by a demented Rottweiler and a general weariness with the "my mate can do it fer nowt/I read on a forum/I watched a youtube video and it only takes ten minutes" brigade. At least I've kept my sense of humor

Really, really, good post Wolf. I was quite astonished looking at the earlier posts on this thread where it was thought that 'why should I pay £70 an hour when they are paying this guy £10 an hour its a rip off' - genuinely astonished about the lack of understanding of the commercials of running a business. As in my post back on page 6 I bet people don't think twice about paying £3 for a coffee from Costa but thats just a paper cup, takes 30 seconds, and contains water that comes out a tap - why are people not in coffee shops all over the country pointing fingers at rip off prices?

Both my brother and dad (now retired) run their own mobile car mechanics business, they used to have a site but the overheads pushed them out of that type of business (along with the road the council built straight through it!). The amount of work they do at home after working hours updating all the admin as well as spending all day in all weathers doing cars just never gets seen. Sure go look at you tube and have a go yourself, I know I do, but its insulting to have to put up with customers who think its an easy job and as you say 'my mate says its this' - nowadays my brother is done with customers like that and has more than enough work to tell them to go get their mate to do it then!

Someone pointed out earlier in the thread, that charging hourly rates as garages do is not a rip off. They have their costs to cover, however charging for replacement of healthy items certainly is and that should be the crux of this thread in my opinion.

[BuzzBravado]

wolf1 said:

We charge a set hourly rate for the following reasons/overheads

Rent
Business rates
Electricity
Heating
Waste disposal (inert and hazardous waste)
Insurance (vehicle, public liability, building, theft etc etc)
Staff training
Equipment calibration
Equipment software licensing/updating/subscription

These are the big ones for us. Some of it is way higher than the public realize. Bosch software licenses are eye watering. At this time of the year we can go through gallons of diesel a day in our space heaters. Insurance is really steep if you keep welding gear on site etc etc.... Just like you said.

[RHVW]

coldel said:

Really, really, good post Wolf. I was quite astonished looking at the earlier posts on this thread where it was thought that 'why should I pay £70 an hour when they are paying this guy £10 an hour its a rip off' - genuinely astonished about the lack of understanding of the commercials of running a business. As in my post back on page 6 I bet people don't think twice about paying £3 for a coffee from Costa but thats just a paper cup, takes 30 seconds, and contains water that comes out a tap - why are people not in coffee shops all over the country pointing fingers at rip off prices?

Both my brother and dad (now retired) run their own mobile car mechanics business, they used to have a site but the overheads pushed them out of that type of business (along with the road the council built straight through it!). The amount of work they do at home after working hours updating all the admin as well as spending all day in all weathers doing cars just never gets seen. Sure go look at you tube and have a go yourself, I know I do, but its insulting to have to put up with customers who think its an easy job and as you say 'my mate says its this' - nowadays my brother is done with customers like that and has more than enough work to tell them to go get their mate to do it then!

Someone pointed out earlier in the thread, that charging hourly rates as garages do is not a rip off. They have their costs to cover, however charging for replacement of healthy items certainly is and that should be the crux of this thread in my opinion.

Maybe this is the future. If the market (customer) is no longer prepared to support the traditional model.

[SonicShadow]

BuzzBravado said:

wolf1 said:

We charge a set hourly rate for the following reasons/overheads

Rent
Business rates
Electricity
Heating
Waste disposal (inert and hazardous waste)
Insurance (vehicle, public liability, building, theft etc etc)
Staff training
Equipment calibration
Equipment software licensing/updating/subscription

These are the big ones for us. Some of it is way higher than the public realize. Bosch software licenses are eye watering. At this time of the year we can go through gallons of diesel a day in our space heaters. Insurance is really steep if you keep welding gear on site etc etc.... Just like you said.

"but you can get a code reader on ebay for a fiver"

[coldel]

RHVW said:

Maybe this is the future. If the market (customer) is no longer prepared to support the traditional model.

It massively reduces overheads but it does restrict what they can do - changing a gearbox means a car on stands and lying on their back and moving stuff around inches above their heads, a lift/ramp would make life so much easier! What they ended up doing was doing a lot more commercial work on lorries etc. as the lack of money and hassle that comes with joe public just isn't worth it - and as pointed out by those in the industry software costs are ridiculous, they cannot afford to pay thousands for a Kia package that they might use once a month if that.

[Section 8]

I have no issues whatsoever paying £50 an hour to a garage that can fix an issue that is way beyond my capabilities but what pisses me off to no end is why after 22 years of driving over 20 plus cars I'm STILL looking for one that hasn't in some way tried to have me off in some way shape or form. Oh and one that doesn't scratch my car while in their care and totally denies any knowledge.

Perhaps I'm just unlucky like the time my go to garage hit me with a near £500 quid mot estimate and on calling bullst and getting a second elsewhere was told the only thing it required was a new fuel cap,as i was running a temp one at the time, made me very cautious.

I would love to find a regular reliable place but even my local Vag specialists that i used a couple of times and thought were ok has Google reviews that would make me think twice about ever going back.

[Samjeev]

The thing you almost need to understand is that there are 3 types of people here:

Trained Mechanic/Garage Owner
Well Versed mechanically minded enthusiast
Mechanically Illterate car owner

Personally im in camp #2, If I have to rebuild the engine on my track car which I can tinker away on for 2 week to 2 months, source my own parts and have time to research i'll do it myself.
If I need to get a bit of welding sorted or replace the clutch on my daily I'll get the mechanic I know to do it but i'll be supplying the parts. Sourcing my own parts means that I could be saving money as im not being billed for his time to look for the parts and it means I can source a quality/performance part in the case of the clutch choice and know what to expect once its fitted. This is also because I know exactly what's wrong and what needs to be replaced, I Just don't have the time nor patience or its simply a complete pain in the ass job which I'd rather spend a couple of hundred £ on rather than waste an entire weekend and come out of it with bloody and scarred knuckles.

My mechanic can't be too fond of me, as I only ever come to him with jobs that I don't want to do myself but I guess i'm an easy customer as I understand whats involved.

Going back to the thread title I recently replaced the brake pads on a work friend's car, cost £50 for a set of new pads front and rear but she was going to be charged £400 for the same job at her local garage. Funnily enough when I came to do it the garage had clearly removed her front calipers to check the pads as the bolts were only hand tight and the rears hadn't been touched at all.

The people defending the dodgy garages do need to understand that there are a few crooks in the industry but unfortunatelly they stand out more than the honest folk, to retaliate with a blanket statement of "You don't know what you're talking about and you want to save money by sourcing your own parts? Ha, you peasant" is just stupid.

Having said that if you complain about garage costs when you have neither the knowledge, means or contacts to get it done yourself you just have to take it on the chin, a high quote can mean quality work in the same way that getting it done on the cheap can mean corners were cut.

Edited by Samjeev on Thursday 16th November 10:03

[Mr2Mike]

This thread must a prime example of the Dunning Kruger effect, people too thick to realise they know nothing about a subject they are arguing about.

I particularly liked the argument that an iphone was more sophisticated than a diagnostic system, proving that the diagnostic system was overpriced but conveniently ignoring the fact that a phone is a fragile, high volume consumer item that cant actually do what a full diagnostic system does.

We live in strange times when people are desperate to increase the profits of a multi billion dollar corporation by purchasing their grossly overpriced phones, but then baulk at paying a fraction of the amount to a garage to service or repair their car, when they have neither the ability or inclination to do it themselves.

[Prof Prolapse]

Mr2Mike said:

This thread must a prime example of the Dunning Kruger effect, people too thick to realise they know nothing about a subject they are arguing about.

I particularly liked the argument that an iphone was more sophisticated than a diagnostic system, proving that the diagnostic system was overpriced but conveniently ignoring the fact that a phone is a fragile, high volume consumer item that cant actually do what a full diagnostic system does.

We live in strange times when people are desperate to increase the profits of a multi billion dollar corporation by purchasing their grossly overpriced phones, but then baulk at paying a fraction of the amount to a garage to service or repair their car, when they have neither the ability or inclination to do it themselves.

I think to be fair some criticisms though out have been valid, but yeah... good point, well made.

I have just booked my car into the local garage in an attempt to try and separate myself from the herd as a response to a minority of comments.

I do try and support my local businesses, but must admit I do need a prod every now and again.

[Little Pete]

Samjeev said:

The thing you almost need to understand is that there are 3 types of people here:

Trained Mechanic/Garage Owner
Well Versed mechanically minded enthusiast
Mechanically Illterate car owner

Personally im in camp #2, If I have to rebuild the engine on my track car which I can tinker away on for 2 week to 2 months, source my own parts and have time to research i'll do it myself.
If I need to get a bit of welding sorted or replace the clutch on my daily I'll get the mechanic I know to do it but i'll be supplying the parts. Sourcing my own parts means that I could be saving money as im not being billed for his time to look for the parts and it means I can source a quality/performance part in the case of the clutch choice and know what to expect once its fitted. This is also because I know exactly what's wrong and what needs to be replaced, I Just don't have the time nor patience or its simply a complete pain in the ass job which I'd rather spend a couple of hundred £ on rather than waste an entire weekend and come out of it with bloody and scarred knuckles.

My mechanic can't be too fond of me, as I only ever come to him with jobs that I don't want to do myself but I guess i'm an easy customer as I understand whats involved.

Going back to the thread title I recently replaced the brake pads on a work friend's car, cost £50 for a set of new pads front and rear but she was going to be charged £400 for the same job at her local garage. Funnily enough when I came to do it the garage had clearly removed her front calipers to check the pads as the bolts were only hand tight and the rears hadn't been touched at all.

The people defending the dodgy garages do need to understand that there are a few crooks in the industry but unfortunatelly they stand out more than the honest folk, to retaliate with a blanket statement of "You don't know what you're talking about and you want to save money by sourcing your own parts? Ha, you peasant" is just stupid.

Having said that if you complain about garage costs when you have neither the knowledge, means or contacts to get it done yourself you just have to take it on the chin, a high quote can mean quality work in the same way that getting it done on the cheap can mean corners were cut.

Edited by Samjeev on Thursday 16th November 10:03

Top post Sanjeev. I have a handful of customers like yourself who I know from my engine building and event support days and I'm more than happy to help them out when they are stuck. It's the you tube/I've got a mate brigade that wind me up who know the square root of nothing but want to haggle on price whilst not having a clue what is involved in the job. Some of the comments on here just reinforce my opinion.
I am in no way defending cowboys or rip off merchants, as I'd like to see them driven out of the trade as much as anyone. What I'm attempting to defend is the majority of very dedicated and hard working independents out there who do an excellent job at a good price and who probably got into the job through a love of cars, although if they had read threads like this first they probably wouldn't have bothered!