Middle Lane Drivers, Do they Ever Notice?

[Pan Pan Pan]

randomeddy said:

Deranged Rover said:

At least they are showing some awareness.

On the M25 last week during the evening rush hour, I came upon a queue of 8 cars in the outside lane, with a family in an MPV at the head of it. They were doing 65mph and absolutely REFUSED to move over when the inner lanes were clear.

The result was that we all ended up undertaking them, there was plenty of flashing of lights and occasional use of the horn, plus one idiot, who I do not condone, pulled back in front of them and then brake-tested them.

The driver looked across at me as I passed him, sounded my horn and made clear indication that he needed to move over. Had no effect though - as i carried on he stayed in the outside lane whilst yet more cars were forced to undertake him.

I really have no idea what was going on in his head.

Same thing Sunday afternoon, M62 Leeds sort of area, dozy bint in her old Focus, totally oblivious to the cars behind flashing. About five cars undertook her finally. V odd.

We often get the puerile `It is a limit, not a target' comment, from those who it seems cannot deal with speed limits.
If people would just do their best to travel at the posted limits where road and traffic conditions allow, the whole road system would work much better. The M25 seems to be a magnet for those who want to drive in the centre lane, at considerably less than the NSL, and who seem oblivious to those who want to travel at the NSL. Some even flash those, who have the temerity to pass them at the NSL when they are doing 60 to 65 mpg in the centre lane.
Although they insist on driving well below the NSL, they dont want to move to the nearside lane, because that would mean they might have to indicate, and pull out whenever they come up behind a HGV doing 55 mph, and that is just too much work for them to contemplate.
If everyone just learned to travel at, or as near to the posted limits as possible, there would be no need for speeding, or daft/dangerous overtakes from other drivers, who want to travel legally at the posted limits, but who are being delayed by those who arrogantly, and ignorantly fail to understand what motorways are for. If some people cannot deal with the low set posted limits, they should not be driving on public roads, as they unsuited for doing so.

[Lotusgone]

My son, I am glad to say, takes his driving very seriously. Pre-Covid, him and some mates were in a three-car convoy on their way to a festival and all stopped for a break.

The other two drivers (in their 20s) asked him why he kept weaving across the road. Weaving, being pulling in to L1 having overtaken something and with nothing else left to overtake for a while. Instead of sticking in L2 all the time.

Where did they get the idea that driving properly was the wrong thing to do?

[james_zy]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

techguyone said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

I was sat in the middle lane on the M62 over Saddleworth Moor. It was a quite day. Suddenly someone overtook close then swung close in across my front and braked.

He then swung alongside me and mouthed wker before driving off.


If you anyone here thinks a close lane back in punishment move is right to teach a middle lane driver please tell me your thinking why.

I can't.

But perhaps you could tell us your rationale for sitting in the middle lane on a quiet day?

Possibly I'd overtake a lorry then Sunday afternoon just sat out. Circa 70. No one ahead or behind that I could see when I last checked.

This is a great insight into the mind and thinking (or lack thereof) of the motherfkers who sit in the middle/wrong lane.

The fact of the matter is if you find yourself in the wrong lane (i.e. when there is a lane free on your left), and a car is approaching from behind, you should have noticed it in your mirror(s) and it should have prompted you to move over to the correct lane. The fact you didn't is telling - either you didn't notice them until they were in front of you (lack of attention), or you noticed them but negated to move to the correct lane (idleness). Their reaction to brake test you is obviously wrong, but the whole thing could have been avoided had you been in the correct lane to begin with. Sort it out.

[james_zy]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

It becomes a fk you attitude of the driver infront.

No one wins.

Plus if you undertake and someone moves over you are in a world of pain long after he's sat at home eating his tea.


Why are you missing that 5mph?

Surgery that you need to perform?
Dying relative
New season of Emmerdale?


With instant Internet we've become GET OUT OF MY WAY NOW culture. No patience.

Again back to my own punished pass experience. It was an empty motorway not the autobahn.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Wednesday 17th August 07:41

It's got nothing to do with patience mate - I don't give second thought to the people I overtake on the motorway any more than I do people that overtake me.

What is peculiar are those, such as yourselves, that feel that people should be forced to travel at your speed due to making a conscious effort to be in the wrong lane. Are you the final arbiter of what the correct speed is? Any quicker and they are "impatient"?

Put differently, why would you want to impact others on the road? If you want to be left alone (as I do), just get in the correct lane?

[TedStriker]

I'm driving in the left-most lane that is empty, officer. What those fools are doing in lane 2/3/4 is their business.

[lizardbrain]

Does the Highway Code specify what counts as excessive weaving?

For me if I am travelling about 75, and have to overtake more than once a minute, and the other two lanes are reasonably clear, it seems to me like the safer option to sit in lane two. If someone has to overtake me every 3 or four minutes, then total lane changes are reduced.

The question is where is the line where hugging left and overtaking trucks very frequently turns into excessive weaving?

[bigothunter]

lizardbrain said:

For me if I am travelling about 75, and have to overtake more than once a minute, and the other two lanes are reasonably clear, it seems to me like the safer option to sit in lane two. If someone has to overtake me every 3 or four minutes, then total lane changes are reduced.

Your 1 minute rule means travelling at least 1.25 miles before returning to the inside lane. That's a road block...

[lizardbrain]

bigothunter said:

Your 1 minute rule means travelling at least 1.25 miles before returning to the inside lane. That's a road block...

What interval in your mind would count as excessive weaving?

[MightyBadger]

vonhosen said:

Rubbish.

You never exceeded a speed limit?
At all, ever?
Don't believe you.
Never followed closer than two second gap?
Never, ever at all?
Don't believe you.
Never missed timed a signal?
Never, ever?
Don't believe you.

There are too many things you could have fallen foul of for you to never transgress at all ever.
If you say you never have, you're a fantasist.

Perfection in driving terms does not exist.

You might do all those things regularly but not every one does.

Never said never either, read slower, it might help your blood pressure lol.

[bigothunter]

lizardbrain said:

bigothunter said:

Your 1 minute rule means travelling at least 1.25 miles before returning to the inside lane. That's a road block...

What interval in your mind would count as excessive weaving?

Depends on the circumstances. But If I was inhibiting another driver's progress, 10 seconds is long enough. When opportunity presents, return to the inner lane.

[lizardbrain]

bigothunter said:

Depends on the circumstances. But If I was inhibiting another driver's progress, 10 seconds is long enough. When opportunity presents, return to the inner lane.

Of course. But what if the 'circustances' are L2 and L3 are almost entirely empty. And L1 requires an overtake every minute.

If the road is clear enough that a car approaches you from behind much less frequently than you are passing cars in L1. Let's say every 5 mins or so. In such a scenario L3 is certainly clear for an overtake so no progress is impeded. Lane changes are reduced. To me it seems logically the better option. Assuming you stay aware enough to pull left if anyone approaches you without a clear and easy overtake available.

Edited by lizardbrain on Wednesday 17th August 12:37

[911hope]

Ian Geary said:

The extra lane added to the m23 has done nothing to reduce middle lane morons, and this week I worked out why this was.

It's quite simple.

It's because they added the new lane to the left hand side of the motorway.

What they should have done is added it to the right hand side of the motorway.

Joking aside, as I've just remarked in another thread, the UK police aren't funded to police every law, so pick the ones that seem important to them.

Mlms irritate me massively, and I would support camera enforcement, which surely can't be that hard, especially if they rolled it into a camera that could detect mobile phone usage.

It would actually be quite difficult. It would be alot of cameras, everywhere. To do the mobile phone trick they would need to be where? Anyway, if there was such universal camera enforcement, they might as well have blanket speed checks, tailgating, undertaking, weaving.... Not likely to be popular.

Autonomous vehicles will actually solve many of the motorway problems.

[vonhosen]

MightyBadger said:

vonhosen said:

Rubbish.

You never exceeded a speed limit?
At all, ever?
Don't believe you.
Never followed closer than two second gap?
Never, ever at all?
Don't believe you.
Never missed timed a signal?
Never, ever?
Don't believe you.

There are too many things you could have fallen foul of for you to never transgress at all ever.
If you say you never have, you're a fantasist.

Perfection in driving terms does not exist.

You might do all those things regularly but not every one does.

Never said never either, read slower, it might help your blood pressure lol.

It's you that needs to read it properly as you have comprehension issues.

vonhosen said:

MightyBadger said:

vonhosen said:

As I said though, nobody adheres to the HC all of the time.

There are many who do.........

Reads what's there, instead of just making it up.

I said nobody adheres 'all the time'.

You said 'there are many who do'.

I say rubbish.

You then said, you never said never.
But you countered my 'people don't adhere all the time' with 'many here do', so you are saying they never transgress if they do adhere all the time.
You are countering something binary, when I say nobody adheres all the time. You countered it with people do (which you claimed at first & now want to detract from because I suspect you realise the folly of your original position). If you want to say people adhere to it some of the time, we are not disagreeing, but still nobody adheres to it all of the time.


I also never said at all how often I transgress either, so how you can know how regularly I do from me simply stating that nobody adheres to the letter of the HC all the time I really don't know.

As you clearly struggle with reading what others are very clearly saying & also struggle to see what you yourself are saying (& the contradictions in it from one post to the next), I think it unlikely that you have higher functioning abilities such as clairvoyance.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 17th August 15:41

[M4cruiser]

911hope said:

Autonomous vehicles will actually solve many of the motorway problems.

Autonomous vehicles won't be programmed to overtake, for many years to come.
I think they will cause more problems in the short term.

[TheDrownedApe]

yeah 9/10 just look forward blinkered with their speed either matched through ACC or wavering between 65-80 due to cars infront.

Not sure it's been mentioned and i can't find the clip but a racing driver, in an interview recently, referred to the driving lane as "the truck lane". we are lost

[911hope]

M4cruiser said:

911hope said:

Autonomous vehicles will actually solve many of the motorway problems.

Autonomous vehicles won't be programmed to overtake, for many years to come.
I think they will cause more problems in the short term.

But there is little advantage to overtaking, in reality.

If the motorway was full of autonomous cars operating at the optimum speed for the traffic density, then the best flow would be achieved.

The autonomous system wont be tainted with aggression, impatience, errors etc and everyone will benefit.

You are correct that in the short term, it may cause problems, but the reason will be the mix of driver operated and autonomous vehicles.

Once some drivers work out that autonomous cars will avoid accidents, they may be tempted to take advantage of this, for their own advantage. Perhaps with bad outcomes. After-all even autonomous systems cannot change the laws of physics.

Once the road is full of them, there will undoubtedly less accidents of certain types.

[theplayingmantis]

lizardbrain said:

Does the Highway Code specify what counts as excessive weaving?

For me if I am travelling about 75, and have to overtake more than once a minute, and the other two lanes are reasonably clear, it seems to me like the safer option to sit in lane two. If someone has to overtake me every 3 or four minutes, then total lane changes are reduced.

The question is where is the line where hugging left and overtaking trucks very frequently turns into excessive weaving?

Stop saying weaving to try to justify your ML hogging!

Moving from L1 to L2 to execute an overtake is not weaving. Its overtaking.

I suspect someone who deems it weaving is a nervous driver who feels scared to be driving, and thus drives poorly, and should hand their license in or not go on multi-lane roads if they are that scared. Such nervousness is dangerous for you and other road users.

[theplayingmantis]

lizardbrain said:

bigothunter said:

Depends on the circumstances. But If I was inhibiting another driver's progress, 10 seconds is long enough. When opportunity presents, return to the inner lane.

Of course. But what if the 'circustances' are L2 and L3 are almost entirely empty. And L1 requires an overtake every minute.

If the road is clear enough that a car approaches you from behind much less frequently than you are passing cars in L1. Let's say every 5 mins or so. In such a scenario L3 is certainly clear for an overtake so no progress is impeded. Lane changes are reduced. To me it seems logically the better option. Assuming you stay aware enough to pull left if anyone approaches you without a clear and easy overtake available.

Edited by lizardbrain on Wednesday 17th August 12:37

This is what we deal with. i'm alright jack i'm too lazy/nervous to drive properly so will just stick in the lane im comfortable in. Screw the rest of you.

Its irrelevant how busy or empty the other lanes are TBH, the edict is keep left. It's also about getting into bad habits. The MLM who does it as its an empty road and there's other lanes for people to overtake me in is a lazy driver who will most likely do the same when the road is busier and they are acting as a rolling road block.

If you think changing lanes is dangerous and a risk, you really shouldn't be driving on multilane roads.

[NDA]

lizardbrain said:

For me if I am travelling about 75, and have to overtake more than once a minute, and the other two lanes are reasonably clear, it seems to me like the safer option to sit in lane two.

Nothing wrong with sitting in lane two - unless there's someone faster behind you. Move over.

[james_zy]

lizardbrain said:

bigothunter said:

Depends on the circumstances. But If I was inhibiting another driver's progress, 10 seconds is long enough. When opportunity presents, return to the inner lane.

Of course. But what if the 'circustances' are L2 and L3 are almost entirely empty. And L1 requires an overtake every minute.

If the road is clear enough that a car approaches you from behind much less frequently than you are passing cars in L1. Let's say every 5 mins or so. In such a scenario L3 is certainly clear for an overtake so no progress is impeded. Lane changes are reduced. To me it seems logically the better option. Assuming you stay aware enough to pull left if anyone approaches you without a clear and easy overtake available.

Edited by lizardbrain on Wednesday 17th August 12:37

This is hilarious. How difficult is overtaking for you? It's a slight nudge of the steering wheel?