SUVs - Whats the point?
Discussion
Timbergiant said:
Lets all just agree to only drive a white Ford Focus ecoboost from now on, then no one will be upset at someone driving a 4X4 or an SUV or a supercar or an MX5 because we will all drive the same car, in the same colour and then everyone will be happy and nobody will be struggling to see the point in something.
Choice is bad, conformity is good.
Won't work as I am sure some will still be "just curious" - nothing more though, "just curious".Choice is bad, conformity is good.
RobM77 said:
heebeegeetee said:
nickfrog said:
Cold said:
Amazing how upset some people get with other people's buying decisions. I wonder why this is? Surely there's got to be some underlying psychological reason for demanding that a stranger justifies their car choice?
+1It is a curious topic though. In the UK we have the most benign weather and the most benign terrain, yet the road are awash with SUVs. I was in the Central Massif a few years back once, in proper snow, and there were *no* SUVS - everyone is in ordinary hatchbacks, on winter tyres. And when you think of the cost of set of tyres compared to a 4x4...
What we do have in the UK though still is eye watering levels of debt, and I' reading that we're headlong onto another financial crisis underwritten by our car purchasing habit.
For me at least I was just pointing out a few misconceptions and myths. I'd rather people all bought different cars as it makes the roads more interesting. What I find curious is that I'm that guy in the SUV adverts who surfs, tows big things and carries bikes around, but I find that a car suits my needs much better.Also, as per the poster above, I've noticed an absence of SUVs in snowy areas. We visit the alps regularly and most of the tiny hamlets and farms on the slopes have small hatchbacks. The contrasts with my village in rural West Berks, which is full of SUVs. Nobody's pointing any fingers, we're just curious. Perhaps SUV owners are aware of how odd their choice of car is and they get really defensive really easily?
FiF said:
RobM77 said:
heebeegeetee said:
nickfrog said:
Cold said:
Amazing how upset some people get with other people's buying decisions. I wonder why this is? Surely there's got to be some underlying psychological reason for demanding that a stranger justifies their car choice?
+1It is a curious topic though. In the UK we have the most benign weather and the most benign terrain, yet the road are awash with SUVs. I was in the Central Massif a few years back once, in proper snow, and there were *no* SUVS - everyone is in ordinary hatchbacks, on winter tyres. And when you think of the cost of set of tyres compared to a 4x4...
What we do have in the UK though still is eye watering levels of debt, and I' reading that we're headlong onto another financial crisis underwritten by our car purchasing habit.
For me at least I was just pointing out a few misconceptions and myths. I'd rather people all bought different cars as it makes the roads more interesting. What I find curious is that I'm that guy in the SUV adverts who surfs, tows big things and carries bikes around, but I find that a car suits my needs much better.Also, as per the poster above, I've noticed an absence of SUVs in snowy areas. We visit the alps regularly and most of the tiny hamlets and farms on the slopes have small hatchbacks. The contrasts with my village in rural West Berks, which is full of SUVs. Nobody's pointing any fingers, we're just curious. Perhaps SUV owners are aware of how odd their choice of car is and they get really defensive really easily?
it's mainly about image obviously, despite all the nonsense about space and safety and waterlogged rugby fields
some people like that image, others don't
some people think about high up seats, space and practicality and think 'MPV' - and plenty of people don't like that image - as we see all the comments 'given up on life' etc
some people like a big tough looking vehicle with big wheels, others like spoilers and low suspension, others like comfort,
some people like that image, others don't
some people think about high up seats, space and practicality and think 'MPV' - and plenty of people don't like that image - as we see all the comments 'given up on life' etc
some people like a big tough looking vehicle with big wheels, others like spoilers and low suspension, others like comfort,
Harji said:
Lots of high vehicles like SUV's are not suitable for British roads, they are bigger and wider and thus clogging.
Most luxury saloons and estates are wider than your average SUV.Your 320D for example is pretty much the same length as and actually wider than a Nissan X-trail (which is a pretty hefty SUV).
clogging the roads
RobM77 said:
Ares said:
What you keep struggling to grasp is that I've had SUVs and I know, from experience, that they are easier to put a child into, and easier to load in general.;)
That's rather misleading; it depends on what you're loading, where you're loading it and how tall you are. For me, as a regular carrier of loads, a car is the only option for what I load, but for others an SUV may be easier. One answer won't suit everyone though.Lifting a child half a metre to the back seat of my car is much easier than lifting the same child one metre to the height of an SUV. That's just basic physics because the energy required to move a mass vertically to a given height is simply "mass * g * height". You then need to get the child from that height into their car seat, and your own body height and particular back/movement issues then come into it, because to do that you need to stoop/bend more with a car than with an off roader. Personally, I find a car easier for this because my bad back is affected by lifting, not stooping - plenty of my friends find the opposite. Horses for courses.
The same applies to loading the boot. P.E. = mgh, but the SUV's boot is typical presented in front of you at belly/chest height, whereas a car's is down at knee/waist height. Again, I prefer the car, but many prefer an off roader.
The loading space of SUV vs car is also different. SUVs tend to achieve their volume with a cuboidal space, whereas cars have much less height and more length. An SUV is much easier to get a washing machine into, for obvious reasons, but for packing multiple loose items, a car is far better because stacking such things vertically is unsafe and also makes access annoying. For example, when I go racing I have about ten 'really useful boxes' with tools, spares etc in, and in my car they lay out one deep so I can access them during a race meeting without unloading them - in an SUV you can't get to them because they're stacked, and they also represent a hazard in an accident or even just cornering, because they'll tend to topple.
Loading the roof is the last thing and the easiest to describe: Twice a week I load long heavy objects onto the roof of my car and for this, from experience, I've chosen a car that's as low as possible. Having tried the same thing with a Mondeo I can report it was markedly harder. An SUV is almost impossible, and certainly not safe. Next time you're at a surf or windsurf spot have a look at the car park - we all drive cars with roofs at chest height, or vans where we can load boards into the van itself. Roof bars and off roaders are a non-starter.
So in summary, SUVs and cars have different talents when it comes to load lugging - one is definitely not better than the other.
Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 13th June 11:57
Ditto carrying 'stuff' to put into your car. It is normally being carried TO the car, and one would normally have it as waist/elbow height. The exception is the shopping bags from the trolley. And yet, lifting them from one the height of the shopping trolley is closer to SUV boot height (without a lip) than a normal car, (with lip). Indeed, you will tend to find that a lot of normal cars have a boot lip that is as high has an SUV boot floor....so it means that it similarly often an easier option!
Not sure what SUV has a boot floor that is at belly height?? I'm only 5'6 and I've never seen an SUV whose boot floor/lip is higher than my waist?
Now roof bars I will give. Roof bars on an SUV are a bigger pain (see the above mention of my 5'6 height). However....with the extra load ability of the SUV, roof bars are a significantly lesser required accessory
RobM77 said:
Whilst I'm at it I'd like to point out that the seeing over hedges thing is a complete myth, at least in rural Berkshire where I live, and certainly in the West Country where many of my family are. Hedges are simply too tall. A typical SUV driver's eye level is at about the same height as when you're walking along (around 5'7" to 5'9"?), so if you're an average height bloke, next time you're walking down a country lane, crouch to belly height and back up to full standing height and tell me how much you can see over the hedges 
It'll make no difference at all. To actually see over a hedge you need to be up in a lorry or a tractor.
....and yet, you've just claimed that the floor of an SUV is belly height?? It'll make no difference at all. To actually see over a hedge you need to be up in a lorry or a tractor.Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 13th June 12:03
Are you Jeremy Corbyn?
dazwalsh said:
Going back to the size of say the Tiguan, it's closer in size to a golf estate both in terms of width and length., likewise the kuga is a smidgen shorter than the focus estate, and the same width.
The argument that they are big and stupid just because they are taller than ordinary cars is a bit daft.
Not much in it. Tiguan, boot space 615 litres. Passat Estate 650 litres. 5% difference.The argument that they are big and stupid just because they are taller than ordinary cars is a bit daft.
Hugo a Gogo said:
it's mainly about image obviously, despite all the nonsense about space and safety and waterlogged rugby fields
It really isn't you know. I couldn't care less about the image of my 14 year old Range Rover. It works for me, my music hobby, my dog, moving stuff about and doing any journey in amazing comfort. It has proper 4WD which might come in handy one day, but that's incidental - although we've done enough gigs in tents in fields that the ground clearance comes in handy. The kids and friends love the heated rear seats, the TV and other toys.Gratuitous pic of dog in Range Rover.
I know a number of people with 4x4s (or the 2wd impersonators) and they all have them for practical reasons, eg carrying stuff, dogs, or towing. I also see quite a lot of crossovers on the school run (well walk actually, we live close 
) Most popular choice seems to be a Nissan Qashqai, usually black with smallish wheels and too old to be on a PCP although the odd Audi or BMW SUV creeps in. All of these vehicles appear to be chosen because they do a job, and are owned by people who just look on their car as A to B transport, so where does all the image thing come from? I don't really know any 20somethings so it it is them? Anyway, I can't see any more pointless vehicle than the Audi A1, they are no more than a Polo in a posh frock and are tiny inside, why don't the owners buy a sensible SUV instead
) Most popular choice seems to be a Nissan Qashqai, usually black with smallish wheels and too old to be on a PCP although the odd Audi or BMW SUV creeps in. All of these vehicles appear to be chosen because they do a job, and are owned by people who just look on their car as A to B transport, so where does all the image thing come from? I don't really know any 20somethings so it it is them? Anyway, I can't see any more pointless vehicle than the Audi A1, they are no more than a Polo in a posh frock and are tiny inside, why don't the owners buy a sensible SUV instead Edited by Justin Case on Tuesday 13th June 22:22
nickfrog said:
An estate only offers downsides IME, even if I don't go off-road. I don't care if it looks horrid as I am not too fussed about appearances - the SUV offers a better driving experience than an estate IME, for family duties. But they're rubbish on track, granted, like most estates/saloons anyway.
Rubbish. In most cases a estate has larger storage capacity over the same SUV that is based on the estate platform. If sitting high and having ease of loading just buy a Transit bus and be done with it. Maybe I am too pistonhead as I have a Saab Estate with a reasonably powerful petrol engine but I value my driving experience quite a lot while still being able to cart the kids and dogs around with ease and comfort. Never once even going down some flooded road in the darkest of eastern europe have I thought a 1 meter lift and a 0-60 time of 10 seconds would be needed. Do not get me wrong I totally get the idea behind a Range Rover and Landcruiser but I do not live in the Alps, the outback, Africa or northern Scotland. Even then I would most likely employ a Quattro Estate.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Tuesday 13th June 21:07
BricktopST205 said:
nickfrog said:
An estate only offers downsides IME, even if I don't go off-road. I don't care if it looks horrid as I am not too fussed about appearances - the SUV offers a better driving experience than an estate IME, for family duties. But they're rubbish on track, granted, like most estates/saloons anyway.
Rubbish. In most cases a estate has larger storage capacity over the same SUV that is based on the estate platform. If sitting high and having ease of loading just buy a Transit bus and be done with it. Maybe I am too pistonhead as I have a Saab Estate with a reasonably powerful petrol engine but I value my driving experience quite a lot while still being able to cart the kids and dogs around with ease and comfort. Never once even going down some flooded road in the darkest of eastern europe have I thought a 1 meter lift and a 0-60 time of 10 seconds would be needed. Oh by the way, just a few posts ago :
Ares said:
Not much in it. Tiguan, boot space 615 litres. Passat Estate 650 litres. 5% difference.
The Golf Estate boot space is 605 litres, so less than the Tiguan's, not more.Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 13th June 22:22
RobM77 said:
To be fair that sort of crap comes from both sides. I think the OP was trying to take a different tack, and amongst all the ludicrous posts about seeing over hedges or people buying flashy cars on finance there is a decent conversation. I think much of this alleged aggression is simply in people's minds - online we don't see or hear the person whose comments we're reading and it's easy to take things the wrong way.
To avoid the quote on quote fest just going to pick up on one thing.You mention "ludicrous posts about seeing over hedges." Earlier cited two fairly specific areas of the country where, yes, that would be a ludicrous claim. Yet I could cite, Lincolnshire, East Yorkshire, Wolds, Derbyshire where it isn't a ludicrous claim. That's just some places off the top of my head.
Agreed it's difficult to understand the intensity or humour behind posts, just gets lost in the bland text.
Fact is, like in so many things, eg winter tyres as a prime example, this is one of those cases where there is no single right answer, all depends on circumstances, needs, desires, pressures which vary from person to person. Too often folks seem to take the stance "This is my situation, therefore anyone who doesn't do the same is plain wrong." Lot more complicated than that.
nickfrog said:
It's not really rubbish, is it ? It's just based on my experience and it's quite subjective - I have no problem if you enjoy a Saab Estate for the driving experience - I tend to have fun in different machinery than a family car, it being an estate or a SUV. But each to their own.
Me too I have a car for the weekends as well. It just so happens I do not have to tear my eyeballs out during the weekly drive.BricktopST205 said:
nickfrog said:
An estate only offers downsides IME, even if I don't go off-road. I don't care if it looks horrid as I am not too fussed about appearances - the SUV offers a better driving experience than an estate IME, for family duties. But they're rubbish on track, granted, like most estates/saloons anyway.
Rubbish. In most cases a estate has larger storage capacity over the same SUV that is based on the estate platform. If sitting high and having ease of loading just buy a Transit bus and be done with it. Maybe I am too pistonhead as I have a Saab Estate with a reasonably powerful petrol engine but I value my driving experience quite a lot while still being able to cart the kids and dogs around with ease and comfort. Never once even going down some flooded road in the darkest of eastern europe have I thought a 1 meter lift and a 0-60 time of 10 seconds would be needed. Do not get me wrong I totally get the idea behind a Range Rover and Landcruiser but I do not live in the Alps, the outback, Africa or northern Scotland. Even then I would most likely employ a Quattro Estate.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Tuesday 13th June 21:07
Add in the often easier accessible and more useable space, they out-trump the estate most of the times. Speaking from experience, not hyperbole.
And you are definitely not too piston heads if you suggest a Transit!
I used to think exactly the same but now I think it is a ridiculous question.
The answer is because they like them.
The aesthetics, the driving position, the ease of getting into them to name three main factors.
Two things that changed my view on them is my wife having them. Actually they are nice to drive if you are ferrying kids and don't care about performance.
It is easy to put mountains of kid stuff in an out of the boot because it is stand-up height. THey are easy to get into. It is easier to see the road ahead in rural areas with hedges. Basically they are extremely practical for families.
The main thing, though, is that I cant help yearning for a Land Rover Defender despite the fact I have no need to go off road. I have to own one. No sensible reason whatsoever other than they exist.
The answer is because they like them.
The aesthetics, the driving position, the ease of getting into them to name three main factors.
Two things that changed my view on them is my wife having them. Actually they are nice to drive if you are ferrying kids and don't care about performance.
It is easy to put mountains of kid stuff in an out of the boot because it is stand-up height. THey are easy to get into. It is easier to see the road ahead in rural areas with hedges. Basically they are extremely practical for families.
The main thing, though, is that I cant help yearning for a Land Rover Defender despite the fact I have no need to go off road. I have to own one. No sensible reason whatsoever other than they exist.
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