Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Davey S2 said:
Flemke
You may have already answered this so apologies if you have but do your F1, P1 and 675 have the same chassis numbers?
I believe all existing F1 owners were offered P1's and could have the same chassis number as their F1 so presumably the same went for the 675 as well?
I was one of the later customers to order a P1. I wasn't planning to buy one at all, until their chief test driver persuaded me that the car was so sensational to drive that I would love it. By that time, my F1 chassis number had been taken (ironically, by someone who used to own an F1 but had sold it years before).You may have already answered this so apologies if you have but do your F1, P1 and 675 have the same chassis numbers?
I believe all existing F1 owners were offered P1's and could have the same chassis number as their F1 so presumably the same went for the 675 as well?
When it came to the 675, I ordered it on the phone in the same conversation in which it was first described to me, prior to official announcement. The thing there was that they gave first dibs on any 675 chassis number to the person who had that same chassis number not on his F1, but rather on his/her P1 - in my case the same chap who had (fairly) taken my F1 chassis # for his P1.
As it turned out, that fellow chose not to buy a 675, so the chassis # was offered to me. I took it, although for the 675, unlike for the F1 or P1, McLaren charged a fee to anyone who chose a chassis number rather than getting a random one. I think they charged £2,500, something like that. Seemed like a bit of a pi55-take, but I agreed, and thus F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
Joe911 said:
waremark said:
I happened to have a brief ride in town in a 675 this evening. I was surprised by how much more raw it seemed than the 650 - louder, tight buckets, gear changes not smooth, vibration at idle, etc.
Interesting - I didn't find the 675 gear changes rough, nor a vibration at idle - though I've not driven a 650 as comparison. Was the car running from cold and was it dense traffic? It's difficult to beat a traditional Merc-style auto-box from in-town smoothness.I'm not sure the 675 - or any of the modern paddle-shift supercar stuff requires much skill to drive fast. The vehicles are a credit to the manufacturers and technology, and a shame (for those who enjoy the driving process) that they require less skill and attention to drive.
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
very fortuitous as it turned out, as you wish to sell the P1Ok, here's a strange question (I am bored at work..)
If you could take bits of the F1, P1 and 675 to create the 'perfect' McLaren, what bits would you get from the 3 respective cars??
Without having driven any of these cars, I really rooted for McLaren when they announced and first released the P1. Very low production numbers, great looks and performance, stunning design, etc. The more time passes the more I lose respect for the company.
First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
SydneyBridge said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
very fortuitous as it turned out, as you wish to sell the P1Ok, here's a strange question (I am bored at work..)
If you could take bits of the F1, P1 and 675 to create the 'perfect' McLaren, what bits would you get from the 3 respective cars??
Soov535 said:
SydneyBridge said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
very fortuitous as it turned out, as you wish to sell the P1Ok, here's a strange question (I am bored at work..)
If you could take bits of the F1, P1 and 675 to create the 'perfect' McLaren, what bits would you get from the 3 respective cars??
gbruckner said:
Without having driven any of these cars, I really rooted for McLaren when they announced and first released the P1. Very low production numbers, great looks and performance, stunning design, etc. The more time passes the more I lose respect for the company.
First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
Interesting.First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
From my observations, both cars have been much more discussed than the LaFerrari - is there any specific reason for this?
Soov535 said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
Of all of their crimes, surely charging you two and half bags to get a different number on the chassis reeks the most?
Very much enjoyed all these comparisons. Thanks to all that posted up.
One thing that strikes me is that the 918 just seems to turn up and deliver. Plus all these comments about build quality of the Porsche make it sound very appealing.
Only issue for me would be the visual appeal of the perfect P1. I think it just looks like it is from another dimension. So very very cool... Heart tells me that I would pick the P1 but the real life write-up here says get a 918.
Not an a decision I will need to make very soon, but either way, great fun working it all out.
Thanks,
Steven_RW
One thing that strikes me is that the 918 just seems to turn up and deliver. Plus all these comments about build quality of the Porsche make it sound very appealing.
Only issue for me would be the visual appeal of the perfect P1. I think it just looks like it is from another dimension. So very very cool... Heart tells me that I would pick the P1 but the real life write-up here says get a 918.
Not an a decision I will need to make very soon, but either way, great fun working it all out.
Thanks,
Steven_RW
flemke said:
I was one of the later customers to order a P1. I wasn't planning to buy one at all, until their chief test driver persuaded me that the car was so sensational to drive that I would love it. By that time, my F1 chassis number had been taken (ironically, by someone who used to own an F1 but had sold it years before).
When it came to the 675, I ordered it on the phone in the same conversation in which it was first described to me, prior to official announcement. The thing there was that they gave first dibs on any 675 chassis number to the person who had that same chassis number not on his F1, but rather on his/her P1 - in my case the same chap who had (fairly) taken my F1 chassis # for his P1.
As it turned out, that fellow chose not to buy a 675, so the chassis # was offered to me. I took it, although for the 675, unlike for the F1 or P1, McLaren charged a fee to anyone who chose a chassis number rather than getting a random one. I think they charged £2,500, something like that. Seemed like a bit of a pi55-take, but I agreed, and thus F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
How the hell did they justify charging £2500 for a chassis number. It doesn't matter that it is the same as an F1/P1. It is a simple paper exercise (probably a computer exercise) and charging anything for it is simply profiteering from your loyal clients.When it came to the 675, I ordered it on the phone in the same conversation in which it was first described to me, prior to official announcement. The thing there was that they gave first dibs on any 675 chassis number to the person who had that same chassis number not on his F1, but rather on his/her P1 - in my case the same chap who had (fairly) taken my F1 chassis # for his P1.
As it turned out, that fellow chose not to buy a 675, so the chassis # was offered to me. I took it, although for the 675, unlike for the F1 or P1, McLaren charged a fee to anyone who chose a chassis number rather than getting a random one. I think they charged £2,500, something like that. Seemed like a bit of a pi55-take, but I agreed, and thus F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
It is the sort of practice that would put me off the brand.
SydneyBridge said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
very fortuitous as it turned out, as you wish to sell the P1Ok, here's a strange question (I am bored at work..)
If you could take bits of the F1, P1 and 675 to create the 'perfect' McLaren, what bits would you get from the 3 respective cars??
I have always thought that the F1 should have ABS, so I would take that from the newer cars.
Overall braking system on the newer cars is vastly better than on F1. If I had not completely changed that system on my car, I'd want the modern system (without servo).
I like having a radio, so I'd remove F1's CD player and replace it with radio (assuming that antenna could be hidden).
Some of the F1's controls, such as indicator stalks, are uninspired bits taken from early '90s 8-Series. Stalks on newer cars are nicer.
F1's headlights could be improved; I'd take those from newer cars as well.
That's all that comes to mind atm. There is not all that much on F1 that I would change.
gbruckner said:
Without having driven any of these cars, I really rooted for McLaren when they announced and first released the P1. Very low production numbers, great looks and performance, stunning design, etc. The more time passes the more I lose respect for the company.
First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
You make a number of good points. If I may however address one of them: Ferrari, Porsche, Audi, Merc, BMW and the others all borrow design themes from one of their products and apply them to others in the range. There have been times when Porsche used some of the exact same body parts on 911s, Caymans and Boxsters.First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
Soov535 said:
SydneyBridge said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
very fortuitous as it turned out, as you wish to sell the P1Ok, here's a strange question (I am bored at work..)
If you could take bits of the F1, P1 and 675 to create the 'perfect' McLaren, what bits would you get from the 3 respective cars??
One might say that, apart from a McLaren Automotive shareholder, as owner of F1 and P1 I should have had first call on that particular chassis number before anyone else did, but, then again, people are prepared to pay the DVLA big money for certain favoured reg numbers, and no-one (except perhaps me) seems to think there is anything wrong with the DVLA charging for them.
smithyithy said:
gbruckner said:
Without having driven any of these cars, I really rooted for McLaren when they announced and first released the P1. Very low production numbers, great looks and performance, stunning design, etc. The more time passes the more I lose respect for the company.
First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
Interesting.First the whole drama around the official Nordschleife time. Then McLaren wouldn't let the P1 be tested against the 918 without their crew fettling the car at the track, now I read that they are pulling some really shady stuff by selling preproduction P1s to bypass the limited production run.
It also doesn't help that most recent McLaren designs look like they put the P1 schematics into a photocopier and closed a few air intakes here and there. 650, 675LT and 570S all play the "we borrow design elements from the halo model" a bit too cutely in my view. Plus don't they all use the same engine block?
To me the "underdog", the 918, emerged victorious from this battle. The consensus seemed to be that it is too complex, too heavy, too synthetic and not exclusive enough. As it turns out Porsche under-promised and over-delivered and McLaren did not. Although, on a second thought, maybe they did over-deliver.
From my observations, both cars have been much more discussed than the LaFerrari - is there any specific reason for this?
isaldiri said:
Soov535 said:
flemke said:
F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
Of all of their crimes, surely charging you two and half bags to get a different number on the chassis reeks the most?Storer said:
flemke said:
I was one of the later customers to order a P1. I wasn't planning to buy one at all, until their chief test driver persuaded me that the car was so sensational to drive that I would love it. By that time, my F1 chassis number had been taken (ironically, by someone who used to own an F1 but had sold it years before).
When it came to the 675, I ordered it on the phone in the same conversation in which it was first described to me, prior to official announcement. The thing there was that they gave first dibs on any 675 chassis number to the person who had that same chassis number not on his F1, but rather on his/her P1 - in my case the same chap who had (fairly) taken my F1 chassis # for his P1.
As it turned out, that fellow chose not to buy a 675, so the chassis # was offered to me. I took it, although for the 675, unlike for the F1 or P1, McLaren charged a fee to anyone who chose a chassis number rather than getting a random one. I think they charged £2,500, something like that. Seemed like a bit of a pi55-take, but I agreed, and thus F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
How the hell did they justify charging £2500 for a chassis number. It doesn't matter that it is the same as an F1/P1. It is a simple paper exercise (probably a computer exercise) and charging anything for it is simply profiteering from your loyal clients.When it came to the 675, I ordered it on the phone in the same conversation in which it was first described to me, prior to official announcement. The thing there was that they gave first dibs on any 675 chassis number to the person who had that same chassis number not on his F1, but rather on his/her P1 - in my case the same chap who had (fairly) taken my F1 chassis # for his P1.
As it turned out, that fellow chose not to buy a 675, so the chassis # was offered to me. I took it, although for the 675, unlike for the F1 or P1, McLaren charged a fee to anyone who chose a chassis number rather than getting a random one. I think they charged £2,500, something like that. Seemed like a bit of a pi55-take, but I agreed, and thus F1 and 675 are the same, P1 is not.
It is the sort of practice that would put me off the brand.
flemke said:
smithyithy said:
From my observations, both cars have been much more discussed than the LaFerrari - is there any specific reason for this?
Maybe because most people see that the LaF is just another pretentious piece of Ferrari merda?
Can't forget this article - just a small glimpse into their business practices, doubtful that they have changed since.
To me it's more of a marketing brand than anything else these days. The fact that the warranty of the La Ferrari battery pack expires if you do not plug it in to a charger for 3 days says it all.
gbruckner said:
flemke said:
smithyithy said:
From my observations, both cars have been much more discussed than the LaFerrari - is there any specific reason for this?
Maybe because most people see that the LaF is just another pretentious piece of Ferrari merda?Can't forget this article - just a small glimpse into their business practices, doubtful that they have changed since.
To me it's more of a marketing brand than anything else these days. The fact that the warranty of the La Ferrari battery pack expires if you do not plug it in to a charger for 3 days says it all.
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