RE: Mini Electric is here!
Discussion
Nik Gnashers said:
If you need to charge your phone every night, unlike me who charges it once every 6 days, then you are using a lot more energy. This is the whole point of energy efficient electric vehicles.
It might be a huge faff if you don't have a high capacity charging point at your house, and 1 or 2 other vehicles to move around in order to get your electric vehicle close enough to the house for the extension lead to reach.
More choice is a good thing, that was not my point. My point was, this MINI is way behind in technology and efficiency.
You are the dim one, because you can't seem to comprehend the points I have made and form any sort of counter argument, dimwit.
I think the fundamental error in your assessment is that there's no such car that will equate to the phone example you've given. Yes some are slightly more economical but not by those margins.It might be a huge faff if you don't have a high capacity charging point at your house, and 1 or 2 other vehicles to move around in order to get your electric vehicle close enough to the house for the extension lead to reach.
More choice is a good thing, that was not my point. My point was, this MINI is way behind in technology and efficiency.
You are the dim one, because you can't seem to comprehend the points I have made and form any sort of counter argument, dimwit.
Some EVs may only need charging once every 6 days but that's because of bigger batteries. Essentially they'll all consume the same, just all at once instead of every day or so.
The mini will actually be one of the most efficient by virtue of its low mass. It's the same setup as my i3 so one of the better ones.
The convenience thing has been done to death and really is personal. For instance, I've an 8m cable that can reach all 4 of my parking spaces without anyone moving. I think most people would position their charger(s) for optimal charge capability.
Edited by SOL111 on Thursday 11th July 22:30
unsprung said:
Wardy78 said:
unsprung said:
toppstuff said:
Old tech. Not cutting edge. Too expensive. Poor range. Not practical.
Poor show BMW. You showed so much promise with the i3 years ago, but you really squandered it.
Some on the other side of the Atlantic are coming to the same conclusion:Poor show BMW. You showed so much promise with the i3 years ago, but you really squandered it.
"...the new electric Mini’s spec sheet reads like something that was announced three or four years ago."
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/9/20687413/bmw-ele...
BMW, however, has built a reputation as a leader and as distinct in design and engineering
so it's a bit of a disappointment to see from this OEM something that has a slight whiff of lackluster about it
Nik Gnashers said:
A MINI is not 'significantly smaller than a Fiesta ffs, it's significantly smaller than a Range Rover though.
40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.
If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
I think it’s important to put this ‘driveway’ issue to bed. 40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
If someone has no legs then they aren’t going to be buying shoes. If someone has no means to domestically charge an EV then like the legless gentleman and his instinctive appreciation that he has no need to buy shoes, that person is not going to buy an EV outside of very particular circumstances.
What type of person would buy a product that they have absolutely no need of and no means to use? A vegetable. A complete vegetable.
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
But to raise this as an issue is just very odd as it all seems rather obvious that someone who has no means to use a product would not generally be interested in buying that product.
If we think of any non essential product that half the population or more cannot use and no one has any true need for, do people take to the internet to scream that the product is bad because only half the population have the means to use it if they wish to? Of course not. That would be absolutely mental. The rankings of a loon. But why is it any different with a car?
It is utterly irrelevant that half the people in the UK do not have the means to home charge. 70 million non EV cars are built on this planet every year versus just 2m pure EVs.
Take a look at yourself. You do not need an EV. No one is telling you that you have to have an EV. And yet you are in the internet screaming about not having the means to charge something that you don’t need and don’t have to have? You’re basically standing in the park, holding a Tesco bag of treasures and shouting at pigeons.
Nik Gnashers said:
Deep Thought said:
Nik Gnashers said:
City Car LOLOL
New MINI's are fookin huge. I'll bet the Hyundai Kona is roughly the same size.
Why should any car be limited in range and need charging more often. If you only use an EV for 30 miles a day, then one charge of a Kona will last a lot longer and as such be more energy efficient.
Are you a bit stupid or something ?
They're not huge. Its significantly smaller than a fiesta and almost 40 cm shorter than the Kona.New MINI's are fookin huge. I'll bet the Hyundai Kona is roughly the same size.
Why should any car be limited in range and need charging more often. If you only use an EV for 30 miles a day, then one charge of a Kona will last a lot longer and as such be more energy efficient.
Are you a bit stupid or something ?
Most cars are that size spend their time around towns and cities.
Are you a bit stupid or something?
If i'd an electric car, i'd - like my phone - plug it in and charge it every night. No particular hassle in doing so.
40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
I have charged using an extension lead for the last 6 months and it really is no hassle. If you don't want or like one thats fine, but trying to find faults or issues that are not there for other people just makes you look ill-informed.
it's not that hard to get your head round.
The Crack Fox said:
£382 a month. Three hundred and eighty three quid. To rent a small, city car. Flippin' heck! That's almost double what the rental on a boggo MINI would cost. You'd have to do a million miles to recoup the fuel savings, which you can't, because the rental will limit the mileage and you'd be sick of the thing by then. The maths for EVs do not add up. Until they do, they'll always be a niche choice. A few folks will buy on their green credentials, but the price is nonsense.
Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
There are good deals on EVs and there are not so good deals on EVs - same as ICE cars.Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
Have a look at this which contains some examples of good deals on EVs.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARUrS7YaFM...
DonkeyApple said:
Nik Gnashers said:
A MINI is not 'significantly smaller than a Fiesta ffs, it's significantly smaller than a Range Rover though.
40cm is fk all, you're clutching at straws now.
If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
I think it’s important to put this ‘driveway’ issue to bed. 40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
If someone has no legs then they aren’t going to be buying shoes. If someone has no means to domestically charge an EV then like the legless gentleman and his instinctive appreciation that he has no need to buy shoes, that person is not going to buy an EV outside of very particular circumstances.
What type of person would buy a product that they have absolutely no need of and no means to use? A vegetable. A complete vegetable.
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
But to raise this as an issue is just very odd as it all seems rather obvious that someone who has no means to use a product would not generally be interested in buying that product.
If we think of any non essential product that half the population or more cannot use and no one has any true need for, do people take to the internet to scream that the product is bad because only half the population have the means to use it if they wish to? Of course not. That would be absolutely mental. The rankings of a loon. But why is it any different with a car?
It is utterly irrelevant that half the people in the UK do not have the means to home charge. 70 million non EV cars are built on this planet every year versus just 2m pure EVs.
Take a look at yourself. You do not need an EV. No one is telling you that you have to have an EV. And yet you are in the internet screaming about not having the means to charge something that you don’t need and don’t have to have? You’re basically standing in the park, holding a Tesco bag of treasures and shouting at pigeons.
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.Sure, it would be a little less convenient for me if I couldn't occasionally top over nigh via 3pin at home, but it genuinely would not make that much of a difference to me.
Deep Thought said:
Nik Gnashers said:
This is way behind many other manufacturers.
The Hyundai Kona EV has been reported doing 340+ miles on a single charge, and has been on sale for a while already. It's roomier than a MINI, not exactly 'ugly' and in fact, quite an attractive mini SUV in most opinions.
I'll bet it has a lot more tech & kit as standard than the MINI too, they are loaded with stuff. Prices start at £27,250......
Not sure why anyone hasn't mentioned it yet, maybe people are posting without actually having any knowledge of the market ?
MINI need to catch up, and fast.
Why does a city car need a 340+ mile range? I doubt they could get the batteries in this size of car to do that.The Hyundai Kona EV has been reported doing 340+ miles on a single charge, and has been on sale for a while already. It's roomier than a MINI, not exactly 'ugly' and in fact, quite an attractive mini SUV in most opinions.
I'll bet it has a lot more tech & kit as standard than the MINI too, they are loaded with stuff. Prices start at £27,250......
Not sure why anyone hasn't mentioned it yet, maybe people are posting without actually having any knowledge of the market ?
MINI need to catch up, and fast.
Edited by Nik Gnashers on Wednesday 10th July 18:24
I think they've got the price and look bang on.
The Mini's a popular brand and an EV is perfect for that (very common) use.
I
Herbs said:
Bispal said:
I have looked into buying an electric car and I have concluded they are a sales and marketing gimmick, they do not save the planet! According to the Guardian (quoting an EU gov. study) the average electric car is responsible for emitting 8.8 tonnes of CO2 during its production compared to 5.6 tonnes in a petrol car. That's just to make the car.
An average petrol car now produces 125g/km of CO2 and that includes the CO2 emitted getting the oil from the ground, refined and to the petrol station. An electric car uses 57g/km if the electricity used is an EU mix (part fossil fuel / nuclear / renewables) That rises to 91g/km if the electricity is 100% generated from fossil fuels.
If we compare EU mix, at 57g/km, to petrol, an electric car would need to travel 130,000 kms / 80,000 miles to recover the CO2 used in the production of it and its batteries. In the UK the average car travels 8,000 miles per year, That's 10 years to recoup the initial additional CO2 required to build an electric car. That's if you replace a perfectly good petrol car with an electric car. If you don't have a car and choose electric then that comes down to 4 years and it begins to look a bit more attractive.
However the average UK car owner changes car every 2 years! This is probably due to finance deals. This means the electric car will never be as environmentally kind to the environment as a petrol car as the batteries are usually kaput before 10 years anyway (look at the Nissan Leaf) so even in their life cycle they will only just manage to recoup their initial losses. Additionally the average age of a car in the UK is 8 years old.
I appreciate this is a transitional period and that in 20 years time hopefully most electricity will be renewable and the battery tech improved but I cant help thinking another fuel source would be better like hydrogen fuel cell. I don't know why battery tech is being pushed so hard when there is no real benefit other than the CO2 they emit is somewhere else and not on our doorstep so is not our problem......Typical Nimby attitude.....
I take your polarised "facts" and match them the other way An average petrol car now produces 125g/km of CO2 and that includes the CO2 emitted getting the oil from the ground, refined and to the petrol station. An electric car uses 57g/km if the electricity used is an EU mix (part fossil fuel / nuclear / renewables) That rises to 91g/km if the electricity is 100% generated from fossil fuels.
If we compare EU mix, at 57g/km, to petrol, an electric car would need to travel 130,000 kms / 80,000 miles to recover the CO2 used in the production of it and its batteries. In the UK the average car travels 8,000 miles per year, That's 10 years to recoup the initial additional CO2 required to build an electric car. That's if you replace a perfectly good petrol car with an electric car. If you don't have a car and choose electric then that comes down to 4 years and it begins to look a bit more attractive.
However the average UK car owner changes car every 2 years! This is probably due to finance deals. This means the electric car will never be as environmentally kind to the environment as a petrol car as the batteries are usually kaput before 10 years anyway (look at the Nissan Leaf) so even in their life cycle they will only just manage to recoup their initial losses. Additionally the average age of a car in the UK is 8 years old.
I appreciate this is a transitional period and that in 20 years time hopefully most electricity will be renewable and the battery tech improved but I cant help thinking another fuel source would be better like hydrogen fuel cell. I don't know why battery tech is being pushed so hard when there is no real benefit other than the CO2 they emit is somewhere else and not on our doorstep so is not our problem......Typical Nimby attitude.....
Edited by Bispal on Thursday 11th July 09:08
https://ecotricity.co.nz/cradle-to-grave-emissions...
1) They bill themselves as a sustainable technology company, not a car company. The utopian ideal is that your house roof recharges your power bank, which powers your car and your home for free.
2) There is no service schedule now, because there are no moving parts to service. Drive it away and deal with issues when and if they arrive.
3) They have a lot of haters and plenty of misinformed opinion/disinformation, but which other company wants to see them succeed given 1) and 2)?
4) They are a company still in startup phase and the final direction is not 100% clear, as some technologies advance quicker than others.
5) They have a 8 year unlimited mileage warranty on the batteries, and less than 1% drop off in performance per year on the new ones.
6) They are fast, blisteringly so - I drove a full on Model 3 which comes in 0-100k at around 3 secs.
7) They are really easy to drive around town; as soon as you come off the throttle the brakes come on. They don't, it is the wheels putting energy back into the battery, but as you lift, before you reach the brake, there is a significant braking effect. I hardly touched the brake pedal.
8) Power delivery is instantaneous; there is no delay at all. No transmission lag, no lull between brake and accelerator at all. When I got back in my car to drive home, I pulled out of the garage and noticed a delay that I had never been aware of before.
9) I can get down to Spain (17 hours) with only 4 stops. Two are for 30 mins, the other two around 50 mins - which is less than I would do anyway for a pee and a coffee.
I was converted. Yes, they are expensive (but compared to what?), no we don't all have drives for home charging, but - after playing with their route planner on the Tesla website - there's not much I couldn't do with it. I had not considered them in the past because of frequent trips to mainland Europe, and I thought I would be stuck or stranded, but it's just not true.
Julietbravo said:
So this week I spent a day at Tesla. My main takeaways were:
1) They bill themselves as a sustainable technology company, not a car company. The utopian ideal is that your house roof recharges your power bank, which powers your car and your home for free.
2) There is no service schedule now, because there are no moving parts to service. Drive it away and deal with issues when and if they arrive.
3) They have a lot of haters and plenty of misinformed opinion/disinformation, but which other company wants to see them succeed given 1) and 2)?
4) They are a company still in startup phase and the final direction is not 100% clear, as some technologies advance quicker than others.
5) They have a 8 year unlimited mileage warranty on the batteries, and less than 1% drop off in performance per year on the new ones.
6) They are fast, blisteringly so - I drove a full on Model 3 which comes in 0-100k at around 3 secs.
7) They are really easy to drive around town; as soon as you come off the throttle the brakes come on. They don't, it is the wheels putting energy back into the battery, but as you lift, before you reach the brake, there is a significant braking effect. I hardly touched the brake pedal.
8) Power delivery is instantaneous; there is no delay at all. No transmission lag, no lull between brake and accelerator at all. When I got back in my car to drive home, I pulled out of the garage and noticed a delay that I had never been aware of before.
9) I can get down to Spain (17 hours) with only 4 stops. Two are for 30 mins, the other two around 50 mins - which is less than I would do anyway for a pee and a coffee.
I was converted. Yes, they are expensive (but compared to what?), no we don't all have drives for home charging, but - after playing with their route planner on the Tesla website - there's not much I couldn't do with it. I had not considered them in the past because of frequent trips to mainland Europe, and I thought I would be stuck or stranded, but it's just not true.
seams reasonable1) They bill themselves as a sustainable technology company, not a car company. The utopian ideal is that your house roof recharges your power bank, which powers your car and your home for free.
2) There is no service schedule now, because there are no moving parts to service. Drive it away and deal with issues when and if they arrive.
3) They have a lot of haters and plenty of misinformed opinion/disinformation, but which other company wants to see them succeed given 1) and 2)?
4) They are a company still in startup phase and the final direction is not 100% clear, as some technologies advance quicker than others.
5) They have a 8 year unlimited mileage warranty on the batteries, and less than 1% drop off in performance per year on the new ones.
6) They are fast, blisteringly so - I drove a full on Model 3 which comes in 0-100k at around 3 secs.
7) They are really easy to drive around town; as soon as you come off the throttle the brakes come on. They don't, it is the wheels putting energy back into the battery, but as you lift, before you reach the brake, there is a significant braking effect. I hardly touched the brake pedal.
8) Power delivery is instantaneous; there is no delay at all. No transmission lag, no lull between brake and accelerator at all. When I got back in my car to drive home, I pulled out of the garage and noticed a delay that I had never been aware of before.
9) I can get down to Spain (17 hours) with only 4 stops. Two are for 30 mins, the other two around 50 mins - which is less than I would do anyway for a pee and a coffee.
I was converted. Yes, they are expensive (but compared to what?), no we don't all have drives for home charging, but - after playing with their route planner on the Tesla website - there's not much I couldn't do with it. I had not considered them in the past because of frequent trips to mainland Europe, and I thought I would be stuck or stranded, but it's just not true.
for me the downsides are
sub standard fit and finish / material quality
residuals unknown long term
rapid development of the technology could make current models obsolete/less desirable in the future (you dont have to drop the battery pack to access key parts on the 3 as they are under the rear seat unlike in the S and X)
very bad support infrastructure, pretty much non-existent, it is a joke
parts are stupidly expensive and often very hard to hold of, In the US cars are regularly written off with moderately light damage because of parts costs / availability which has caused insurance prices to sky rocket
if they do go bankrupt (they are not financially health) its a bloody expensive paper weight
the number one reason for me thou is no car play
The Crack Fox said:
£382 a month. Three hundred and eighty three quid. To rent a small, city car. Flippin' heck! That's almost double what the rental on a boggo MINI would cost. You'd have to do a million miles to recoup the fuel savings, which you can't, because the rental will limit the mileage and you'd be sick of the thing by then. The maths for EVs do not add up. Until they do, they'll always be a niche choice. A few folks will buy on their green credentials, but the price is nonsense.
Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
ETA - For the sake of clarity, I'm a Luddite who lives in a bus shelter drinking spesh and shouting at the pigeons.
Any stated figure will be just that? A starting point not set in stone. There will be offers that will fluctuate with demand.Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
ETA - For the sake of clarity, I'm a Luddite who lives in a bus shelter drinking spesh and shouting at the pigeons.
Edited by The Crack Fox on Friday 12th July 10:33
Foxtons will probably buy a thousand of them.
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.what's the statistic- cars spend 98% of their life parked up and 95% of journeys are <7 miles ??? there's a bit of scope to plug a car in to top its battery up !
The Crack Fox said:
£382 a month. Three hundred and eighty three quid. To rent a small, city car. Flippin' heck! That's almost double what the rental on a boggo MINI would cost. You'd have to do a million miles to recoup the fuel savings, which you can't, because the rental will limit the mileage and you'd be sick of the thing by then. The maths for EVs do not add up. Until they do, they'll always be a niche choice. A few folks will buy on their green credentials, but the price is nonsense.
Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
ETA - For the sake of clarity, I'm a Luddite who lives in a bus shelter drinking spesh and shouting at the pigeons.
You dont have to rent it, you can buy one outright.Mini (note lower case) was all about bringing affordable motoring to the masses, the fact that it was fashionable was a by-product.
MINI (shouty case) is seemingly all about fashion, affordable only to the middle-classes-on-tick, the actual, total life-time costs are crackers.
ETA - For the sake of clarity, I'm a Luddite who lives in a bus shelter drinking spesh and shouting at the pigeons.
Edited by The Crack Fox on Friday 12th July 10:33
Yes, MINI has reinvented itself as something over and above affordable motoring to the masses. Do we not have a load of other brands doing that anyway? Dacia for example. Hyundai / KIA maybe. I dont think BMW would have done what they did if they had been "forced" to maintain that original ethos.
I dont think necessarily that one of these will save you money compared to running a new Cooper, but i dont think thats the point of EV. Its not to save money, its to not run on fossil fuels?
£400 odd a month including electric costs or £200 a month PCH costs and £200 a month fuel?
Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 12th July 12:31
The Crack Fox said:
That's very handy, thanks. It tells me that for 24k miles a year the cheapest option is a Renault Zoe. Can you imagine the sheer hell of driving one of those things for 24k miles? The range is crap, the reliability is crap, and your spreadsheet doesn't put a cost on the time you waste topping the battery up when you're on the road. Interesting, but I'll buy another old diesel, or frugal new petrol, methinks.
No worries, glad you found it useful and were able to see that actually the maths for EVs can add up.For others with different annual mileages or different priorities, here's the link again if you want to try it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ARUrS7YaFM...
Edited by MaxSo on Friday 12th July 12:35
austinsmirk said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.what's the statistic- cars spend 98% of their life parked up and 95% of journeys are <7 miles ??? there's a bit of scope to plug a car in to top its battery up !
Banontynes, Lidl, Tesco are all commited to the roll out of rapid chargers for customers. ASDA occasionally has destination chargers.
Evanivitch said:
austinsmirk said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.what's the statistic- cars spend 98% of their life parked up and 95% of journeys are <7 miles ??? there's a bit of scope to plug a car in to top its battery up !
Banontynes, Lidl, Tesco are all commited to the roll out of rapid chargers for customers. ASDA occasionally has destination chargers.
Tesco in Bournemouth went live this week and they are free!
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