Play silly games racing... This is the outcome

[J4CKO]

Hungrymc said:

Mr Whippy said:

If you had a brush with a big loutish drunk meat head on a night out would you...

A, stay away from them and enjoy a fun evening?
B, tempt fate and go near them again, and risk being ttted, then complain when you are?

The car driver is an idiot.

Yes sometimes you can’t avoid idiots.

This biker chased an idiot down! That makes the biker an idiot too.

What was the “brush with A big loutish drunk meat head” ? I guess you mean the wheel spin at the lights?

When I first saw that, I assumed it was a teenager arsing about / having a play and trying to encourage the bike to race.... poor driving and certainly a warning sign. But I didn’t see it as threatening behaviour. I’m not sure if there were even words exchanged?

I’ve already listed the poor riding - I‘m not sure if it makes him an idiot, but certainly some poor riding and I would do most of it differently.

But if you think the driver is merely an “idiot” as opposed to being a maniac that needs locking up, we’re not going to agree.

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

Which is different than an encounter with someone who you believe to be potentially violent.

[Durzel]

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

[Dazyamr1000]

The car driver was obviously jealous of being overtaken at the lights as some are and biker was drawn into a race and should of left it alone,although if he was ‘racing’ he would of left the car standing if he was on a sport bike.The biker had a part to play but the car took it way too far.

[anonymous-user]

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Agree with Durzel. I would never entertain such a thing on a bike; it's dangerous enough out there without adding to it.

[Hungrymc]

garyhun said:

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Agree with Durzel. I would never entertain such a thing on a bike; it's dangerous enough out there without adding to it.

Unfortunately, as a motorcyclist, you are very vulnerable and most of us try to ride accordingly. But your comment doesn’t really make practical sense as all of us as road users are constantly putting our lives in the hands of others.... single carriageway roads? 120mph closing speeds with no separation? Walking on a footpath? Crossing the road? That’s why standards need to be upheld.

The only way to definitely avoid drivers like this is to stay off the road. Luckily, his actions are bad enough that he should be behind bars for a spell making the roads safer for everyone.

[Durzel]

Hungrymc said:

garyhun said:

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Agree with Durzel. I would never entertain such a thing on a bike; it's dangerous enough out there without adding to it.

Unfortunately, as a motorcyclist, you are very vulnerable and most of us try to ride accordingly. But your comment doesn’t really make practical sense as all of us as road users are constantly putting our lives in the hands of others.... single carriageway roads? 120mph closing speeds with no separation? Walking on a footpath? Crossing the road? That’s why standards need to be upheld.

The only way to definitely avoid drivers like this is to stay off the road. Luckily, his actions are bad enough that he should be behind bars for a spell making the roads safer for everyone.

Those things are normal driving behaviour though. If we're being pedantic then yes every time you get on a bike, or in a car for that matter, you run the risk of someone T-boning you because they're not paying attention, or just because they feel like it. All of us need to get to places by necessity though, so you have to accept that baseline level of risk.

My point is that if you participate in competitive driving or riding on the road you're effectively stepping outside of the norms of driving/riding and into a mano-e-mano scenario where you are depending on the skills, temperment and acquiescence of the other driver/rider. As said before do that enough times and you'll eventually come across a nutter who doesn't want to lose, and makes reckless moves like this - either deliberately or in the heat of the moment. In either scenario as a biker you are guaranteed to come off a lot worse.

It's bad enough doing this sort of thing in a car, but on a bike you'd have to be suicidal I think. Nothing excuses what the Civic driver did in the case of the video linked in the OP, but the biker put himself in harms way by participating. He would still be riding if he just let the Civic driver get on with it. Not being a biker myself, I always assumed defensive riding was the de facto way to ride on a day to day basis?

[Sway]

nunpuncher said:

This.

I think a lot of the people commenting here have never ridden a bike and possibly aren't that keen on bikers (don't blame them as they do tend to attract a high percentage of idiots due to being a cheap route to hypercar speeds). The biker only seems to give it some beans well after the second set of lights, even then it wasn't full on and he could easily have smoked the civic even right after the wheel spin effort. Why he did so I have no idea but as someone else detailed he'd already made several bad riding decisions.

You have to ask. Would the civic have made the same move had that been a faster car that came up in the right hand lane? I very much doubt it. Deliberately swerving in to the path of a bike like that can only really be viewed as attempted murder.

Dude, my brother got his head stamped on after a mugging, breaking every bone in his head, and causing a 8 week coma...

The guy did it because he realised my bro knew him.

He got charged, and convicted, of 'gbh with intent'.

Attempted murder? Not even close.

[the cueball]

Durzel said:

<snip>

It's bad enough doing this sort of thing in a car, but on a bike you'd have to be suicidal I think. Nothing excuses what the Civic driver did in the case of the video linked in the OP, but the biker put himself in harms way by participating. He would still be riding if he just let the Civic driver get on with it. Not being a biker myself, I always assumed defensive riding was the de facto way to ride on a day to day basis?

Ever time I get on my bike, I think and say to myself: EVERYONE is out to kill me.

and then ride with that in mind.

Am I perfect? nope...

Not always defensive riding either, sometimes you do need a bit of offense too...but.... do I put myself in danger like in the video - not a chance..

[MyV10goesWhaaa]

Miserablegit said:

I drive my cars the way I used to ride - in tight fitting leather...

[J4CKO]

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Indeed, but it does amaze me how many bikers take risks above and beyond the inherent risk of riding a motorcycle.

The biker got caught out, 999 times out of 1000 that wouldnt have happened but its a valuable lesson to keep a good distance and a bit in reserve when dealing with morons, which I guess is pretty much everyone when on a bike.

[anonymous-user]

Miserablegit said:

1st mistake racing at the lights
2nd mistake not “winning”
3rd mistake not accepting he lost the drag race and continued to chase the car
4th mistake - possibly not wearing the right kit. He talks about cargo pants and waterproofs. I’m always disappointed to see bikers out on a high speed run with jeans on...
5th mistake not anticipating the car driver was unhinged
It was all the car driver’s fault admittedly but points 1-5 would have kept the biker out of a&e

All spot on, but you missed:

Staying in the right hand lane when not overtaking anything
Filtering between stationary traffic at the lights and positioning the bike in front of the car (this really annoys me)

- I appreciate none of this justifies the actions of the civic driver but it all adds up to provoking a reaction. On a bike you have to take a bit more responsibility for your own safety, its not right, but there is no advantage to being right and dead.

[Some Gump]

STe_rsv4 said:

Knocked off his bike and wanting sympathy, not sure this is the way to go about it.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=102208...

Possibly stop riding like a bellend and stop racing bellends, you will live longer. (incident happens towards the end of the video)

Only read this far...

Is the bike rider not at least 50% to blame for the outcome?

I mean, sure angry hot hatch man is a bellend, but this looks like taunting a dog and then criticising it when it bites you.

[PorkRind]

Alex_225 said:

Don't get me wrong the car driver shouldn't have done that, whether deliberate or completely ignorant. By the same token, the biker would wind drivers up. Lane 2 the entire time whether passing people or not, insisting on getting to the front of the queue to then pull away slowly. I don't condone the driver but I can see the biker getting on people's nerves!

Yup, both culpable here !

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

Just watched it again, as I wasn't aware it was a Busa when I first watched.

I agree with what pretty much the rest of you have said, namely:

The bike was no way racing, Civics don't out-drag Hayabusa's!
The bikes lane discipline was piss poor. Regardless of if you're the fastest thing in the vicinity you keep left to allow anyone who wishes to pass to do so.
The Civic, IMO, even if he hadn't clocked he was being gunned down on, had more than enough time to see the bike.
And agreed, the second I'd witnessed him spin the wheels of his Honda I'd leave him be to be someone elses accident.

[daytonavrs]

In quite clearly posted non motorway limits I think its mental to be even goaded into that kind of stupidity.
Let the dicks lose their license.
I like a bit of power where appropriate, but have greater respect for anything less than motorway limits and you can hardly enjoy that nowadays even.
Realising to be honest that the track is really the best place to fully get your kicks if you are into speed.

From my ex biker perspective, that cars behaviour despite them both speeding is way beyond dangerous wants locking up.

I had a non fault off from a drunk driver once I actually wanted to find they guy and tear him to pieces, it was only about 25mph meets car the other way ( I went over his boot and got off extremely lightly somehow)

Funny thing is he seemed to get his commupance as I did see his details posted in the local papers for drunk driving so I guess karma works its magic in time,
I wasn't getting any results from the police or insurance for a long time though which just added to my anger and had personal interest to find the guy. Just as well I didn't.

They should find that Honda tt he needs serving and both need a lesson in speed awareness.

[Hungrymc]

Durzel said:

Hungrymc said:

garyhun said:

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Agree with Durzel. I would never entertain such a thing on a bike; it's dangerous enough out there without adding to it.

Unfortunately, as a motorcyclist, you are very vulnerable and most of us try to ride accordingly. But your comment doesn’t really make practical sense as all of us as road users are constantly putting our lives in the hands of others.... single carriageway roads? 120mph closing speeds with no separation? Walking on a footpath? Crossing the road? That’s why standards need to be upheld.

The only way to definitely avoid drivers like this is to stay off the road. Luckily, his actions are bad enough that he should be behind bars for a spell making the roads safer for everyone.

Those things are normal driving behaviour though. If we're being pedantic then yes every time you get on a bike, or in a car for that matter, you run the risk of someone T-boning you because they're not paying attention, or just because they feel like it. All of us need to get to places by necessity though, so you have to accept that baseline level of risk.

My point is that if you participate in competitive driving or riding on the road you're effectively stepping outside of the norms of driving/riding and into a mano-e-mano scenario where you are depending on the skills, temperment and acquiescence of the other driver/rider. As said before do that enough times and you'll eventually come across a nutter who doesn't want to lose, and makes reckless moves like this - either deliberately or in the heat of the moment. In either scenario as a biker you are guaranteed to come off a lot worse.

It's bad enough doing this sort of thing in a car, but on a bike you'd have to be suicidal I think. Nothing excuses what the Civic driver did in the case of the video linked in the OP, but the biker put himself in harms way by participating. He would still be riding if he just let the Civic driver get on with it. Not being a biker myself, I always assumed defensive riding was the de facto way to ride on a day to day basis?

The first thing that catches my eye is “competitive” driving. The biker did put himself at risk by overtaking (in my opinion, the poorest riding was filtering to the front past a car that had just overtaken him and clearly planned to travel faster - that was worse than the speeding to me). If you look at the overtake, the poor bit was that it was the first time he had opened the throttle more than 1/3 so he may be making it difficult for the driver to understand the level of acceleration he is using as it’s far more than at any time during the video and hence surprising closing speed (the bike wasn’t racing - certainly not up until that point, and at that point, he short shifts the first few gears with little / no throttle)

The biker deserves points, the driver deserves time behind bars.... I assume everyone agrees that ?

There are lessons for the biker to learn, but the tone of the OP and some of the posts focused on what the biker should have done is like blaming someone who bought a Golf R for their house broken into and car stolen. I think we need to stop excusing and justifying the real offenders.

[anonymous-user]

Hungrymc said:

Durzel said:

Hungrymc said:

garyhun said:

Durzel said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, the biker saw someone up for a bit of a play, rather than the potential threat he turned out to be, he wanted to show how much faster his bike was as well.

But given how vulnerable bikers are, why would you even entertain it? You'd have no idea of the mentality of the person behind the wheel. The wheel spinning might have been benign, the driver might have accepted defeat gracefully, but he might - as in this case - be offended and behave rashly.

Do this sort of thing enough times and you'll come across someone like this Civic driver, who may or may not have intended his swerve to make the rider come off, but he made that move anyway. It's insane to put your life in the hands of people like this. You're rolling the dice every time you participate.

Agree with Durzel. I would never entertain such a thing on a bike; it's dangerous enough out there without adding to it.

Unfortunately, as a motorcyclist, you are very vulnerable and most of us try to ride accordingly. But your comment doesn’t really make practical sense as all of us as road users are constantly putting our lives in the hands of others.... single carriageway roads? 120mph closing speeds with no separation? Walking on a footpath? Crossing the road? That’s why standards need to be upheld.

The only way to definitely avoid drivers like this is to stay off the road. Luckily, his actions are bad enough that he should be behind bars for a spell making the roads safer for everyone.

Those things are normal driving behaviour though. If we're being pedantic then yes every time you get on a bike, or in a car for that matter, you run the risk of someone T-boning you because they're not paying attention, or just because they feel like it. All of us need to get to places by necessity though, so you have to accept that baseline level of risk.

My point is that if you participate in competitive driving or riding on the road you're effectively stepping outside of the norms of driving/riding and into a mano-e-mano scenario where you are depending on the skills, temperment and acquiescence of the other driver/rider. As said before do that enough times and you'll eventually come across a nutter who doesn't want to lose, and makes reckless moves like this - either deliberately or in the heat of the moment. In either scenario as a biker you are guaranteed to come off a lot worse.

It's bad enough doing this sort of thing in a car, but on a bike you'd have to be suicidal I think. Nothing excuses what the Civic driver did in the case of the video linked in the OP, but the biker put himself in harms way by participating. He would still be riding if he just let the Civic driver get on with it. Not being a biker myself, I always assumed defensive riding was the de facto way to ride on a day to day basis?

The first thing that catches my eye is “competitive” driving. The biker did put himself at risk by overtaking (in my opinion, the poorest riding was filtering to the front past a car that had just overtaken him and clearly planned to travel faster - that was worse than the speeding to me). If you look at the overtake, the poor bit was that it was the first time he had opened the throttle more than 1/3 so he may be making it difficult for the driver to understand the level of acceleration he is using as it’s far more than at any time during the video and hence surprising closing speed (the bike wasn’t racing - certainly not up until that point, and at that point, he short shifts the first few gears with little / no throttle)

The biker deserves points, the driver deserves time behind bars.... I assume everyone agrees that ?

There are lessons for the biker to learn, but the tone of the OP and some of the posts focused on what the biker should have done is like blaming someone who bought a Golf R for their house broken into and car stolen. I think we need to stop excusing and justifying the real offenders.

That analogy makes no sense at all.

A more accurate one is it’s like buying a golf R, ragging the tits off it on your local road and then putting a sign on the roof saying ‘I’m fast, steal me’ and giving instructions on how to find the keys.

A biker purposely putting him or herself in the situation in the video is simply madness, especially when there are tts like the car driver on the road.

[Hungrymc]

garyhun said:

That analogy makes no sense at all.

A more accurate one is it’s like buying a golf R, ragging the tits off it on your local road and then putting a sign on the roof saying ‘I’m fast, steal me’ and giving instructions on how to find the keys.

A biker purposely putting him or herself in the situation in the video is simply madness, especially when there are tts like the car driver on the road.

My analogy makes no sense ? Okey dokey

Im open to other opinions on this. I keep trying to put myself in the bikers position. I don’t ride like him so it’s difficult. The one thing I wouldn’t do is filter to the front, past a car that has been traveling quicker than me. And if I did by some error of judgment, I would have gotten well ahead and clear as the lights change.

I guess the sign that the biker has missed is that the wheel spin is actually road rage, not racing / arsing about / having (questionable) fun ?

I honestly didn’t see the video as aggression up until the incident (I didn’t see the faces in the Civic, but didn’t hear shouting or see gestures). I saw it as two people riding / driving poorly together and would have assumed both were enjoying it.

[Taylor James]

Hungrymc said:

garyhun said:

That analogy makes no sense at all.

A more accurate one is it’s like buying a golf R, ragging the tits off it on your local road and then putting a sign on the roof saying ‘I’m fast, steal me’ and giving instructions on how to find the keys.

A biker purposely putting him or herself in the situation in the video is simply madness, especially when there are tts like the car driver on the road.

My analogy makes no sense ? Okey dokey

Im open to other opinions on this. I keep trying to put myself in the bikers position. I don’t ride like him so it’s difficult. The one thing I wouldn’t do is filter to the front, past a car that has been traveling quicker than me. And if I did by some error of judgment, I would have gotten well ahead and clear as the lights change.

I guess the sign that the biker has missed is that the wheel spin is actually road rage, not racing / arsing about / having (questionable) fun ?

I honestly didn’t see the video as aggression up until the incident (I didn’t see the faces in the Civic, but didn’t hear shouting or see gestures). I saw it as two people riding / driving poorly together and would have assumed both were enjoying it.

It makes no sense because the Golf R owner in your analogy has not committed any crime and is a completely passive party.

The biker in the situation under discussion broke the speed limit and was an active participant in the events that unfolded.

As was said at the beginning of the thread, the biker had numerous options to disengage. He chose instead to actively engage in an obviously inappropriate sequence of events that was always likely to end badly.

[LarsG]

I think the Police will prosecute them both for racing. Bye Bye licence.