RE: Suzuki forced to cut UK Jimny allocation
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
It won’t happen but fuel pricing is the most logical way to steer consumers naturally into smaller, more efficient vehicles as well as using them less.
If the average UK annual mileage is 12,500 and the apparent average MPG of new cars is 50 then that suggests very crudely that the typical car user could be given a 250 gallon annual allowance at standard rate or about 5 gallons a week.
Lots of fudges such as borrowing the credit card of a non driver who registers a vehicle etc etc
But with modern tech you could link fuel purchases to a smart phone and even put your excess allocation up for sale for excess users to buy.
The key is to not impact on the lowest income households, preferably to give them an income stream through their sale of credits while encouraging high users to use less but doing fewer journeys, switching to more frugal vehicles etc.
The price of fuel is the purest means to inhibit excess burning of fuel but it has to be done intelligently but the tech exists to do so.
Such a system has the potential to reduce the average size and weight of vehicles on the roads as well as how much they are used. And over time you’d break the trend of ever larger and more wasteful vehicles.
DA, you're just trying to be the next Al Gore, aren't you? If the average UK annual mileage is 12,500 and the apparent average MPG of new cars is 50 then that suggests very crudely that the typical car user could be given a 250 gallon annual allowance at standard rate or about 5 gallons a week.
Lots of fudges such as borrowing the credit card of a non driver who registers a vehicle etc etc
But with modern tech you could link fuel purchases to a smart phone and even put your excess allocation up for sale for excess users to buy.
The key is to not impact on the lowest income households, preferably to give them an income stream through their sale of credits while encouraging high users to use less but doing fewer journeys, switching to more frugal vehicles etc.
The price of fuel is the purest means to inhibit excess burning of fuel but it has to be done intelligently but the tech exists to do so.
Such a system has the potential to reduce the average size and weight of vehicles on the roads as well as how much they are used. And over time you’d break the trend of ever larger and more wasteful vehicles.
Industrial/national "carbon credits", applied through to the individual...
Of course, someone will need to broker/administer such a scheme.
Fair play chap. Sway said:
DA, you're just trying to be the next Al Gore, aren't you?
Industrial/national "carbon credits", applied through to the individual...
Of course, someone will need to broker/administer such a scheme.
Fair play chap.
If we can turn everyone into a mini Enron, selling their domestic utility excess, trading fuel allowances then naturally the next step is to bring leverage to the party and allow people to trade in huge sums at obviously very fair lending rates. I can’t see any kind of commercial benefit to me at all. Not in any shape or size. Industrial/national "carbon credits", applied through to the individual...
Of course, someone will need to broker/administer such a scheme.
Fair play chap. 
I guess just like making sure it’s a net benefit to lower income workers you probably need to make sure people like me can’t make a market it in!
321boost said:
So where can I find out more about this green lobby/input by the UK govt to the EU mentioned by posters here? The bit to make the emissions more strict?
Not sure if there’s a succinct summary of the UK government inputs over the last decade, but understand that we were one of the key lobby groups.Brexit manifesto always maintained that we wouldn’t allow environmental obligations to slip (and no way could they walk away from something that was being actively promoted).
No longer being able to offset was a fairly obvious consequence of Brexit.
321boost said:
So where can I find out more about this green lobby/input by the UK govt to the EU mentioned by posters here? The bit to make the emissions more strict?
Domestic and international APD (air passenger duty) is a U.K. govt ‘green’ policy for example that the EU had no input in - and is because there are international treaties that aviation fuel can’t be taxed, so we tax the passengers instead to try and reduce demand.Related are noise limits for aircraft where the U.K. has been continuously pushing for stricter noise limits than international regulations for the last 30 years or so.
Edited by wisbech on Wednesday 29th January 13:56
The UK has backed something like 95% of EU policies.
I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
DonkeyApple said:
The UK has backed something like 95% of EU policies.
I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
Weren’t we the ones that had a say in making eu policies anyway?I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
df76 said:
Not sure if there’s a succinct summary of the UK government inputs over the last decade, but understand that we were one of the key lobby groups.
Brexit manifesto always maintained that we wouldn’t allow environmental obligations to slip (and no way could they walk away from something that was being actively promoted).
No longer being able to offset was a fairly obvious consequence of Brexit.
The counter to that green lobbying in eu as far as I understand is that the Brexit manifesto always maintained that we wouldn’t allow environmental obligations to slip (and no way could they walk away from something that was being actively promoted).
No longer being able to offset was a fairly obvious consequence of Brexit.
1. UK tried to vote against real emissions testing.
2. There seems to be a conflict between the people in charge whether we will diverge from EU regulations.
3. Watchdog has been setup to monitor air pollution but it can’t fine the UK govt.
4. The UK was taken to court by client earth three times, the court told govt to come up with the plan to reduce emissions or fix air quality plan.
5. Despite the ruling the govt decided to make CAZ only a last resort effort and did not make them compulsory but some councils took that as an opportunity to make more money.
6. Clientearth then took the UK govt to ECJ and I have no idea what happened next.
7. At certain points I interpreted the 2013 govt plan to say that “we are just following EU emission targets and we will keep this realistic but really it’s the EU” of course I’m biased, I love cars and V12s
BUT
1. In the same plan, they do say that they we are going to influence EU policy.
2. They did setup a watchdog, it can go either way.
3. UK want to stop dependence on fossil fuels because it comes from other countries.
4. All of you guys on PH saying westminster will go mad on the emissions regulations and oppose anything sensible.
So I’m still in two minds. No one knows what will happen. The UK should relax the regulations and let us enjoy our cars
Did Theresa May’s environmental bill go through? Where can one see details of it?
Edited by 321boost on Wednesday 29th January 17:17
jamoor said:
DonkeyApple said:
The UK has backed something like 95% of EU policies.
I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
Weren’t we the ones that had a say in making eu policies anyway?I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
But 30 years of everyone being able to blame the EU when it goes wrong has come home to roost with most people actually believing the fault was the EU. The European Human Rights act being an obvious example. The public blames numerous events on this act but in reality it is the UK’s decision to aggressively interpret the act which has been the fault of most issues.
For 30 years or more the EU has been there to suggest to UK politicians that their behaviour is a bit extremist and mental. And now we are on our own with a group of self serving fringe loons who are going to be holding pig knobbing parties with the loons from other mentalist regimes to dream up the craziest ways to f
k everyone each and every way. People just need to appreciate that whatever the policy is that means this Suzuki will cease to be sold here, our government backed that policy and almost certainly wanted a more extreme one and would have got it if the Southern European pisspot economies hadn’t had a vote.
DonkeyApple said:
jamoor said:
DonkeyApple said:
The UK has backed something like 95% of EU policies.
I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
Weren’t we the ones that had a say in making eu policies anyway?I would say that there is an argument that the EU has been a tempering force in containing the UK government’s ambitions and that this will be revealed over the coming years as we enact more than the EU once they no longer have the ability to block or restrain much of Westminster’s madness.
People who expect a rolling back or slowing of legislative change might well be in for a bit of a shock!
I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
But 30 years of everyone being able to blame the EU when it goes wrong has come home to roost with most people actually believing the fault was the EU. The European Human Rights act being an obvious example. The public blames numerous events on this act but in reality it is the UK’s decision to aggressively interpret the act which has been the fault of most issues.
For 30 years or more the EU has been there to suggest to UK politicians that their behaviour is a bit extremist and mental. And now we are on our own with a group of self serving fringe loons who are going to be holding pig knobbing parties with the loons from other mentalist regimes to dream up the craziest ways to f
k everyone each and every way. People just need to appreciate that whatever the policy is that means this Suzuki will cease to be sold here, our government backed that policy and almost certainly wanted a more extreme one and would have got it if the Southern European pisspot economies hadn’t had a vote.
I had a Jimny for some time, drove across France with Wifey and pet Labrador. Pretty slow on the motorway and the seats were flimsy. Used everyday in London for two years. Never tired of its looks. Gorgeous little car.
I quite fancy one of the new ones
Might still get it. Best looking Jeep on the market.
Why it doesn’t have a 1.2 turbo a la yeti?
I quite fancy one of the new ones
Might still get it. Best looking Jeep on the market.
Why it doesn’t have a 1.2 turbo a la yeti?
I was lucky enough to get one in February last year, I live in mid wales on one of the top 10 worst roads in Britain hence buying it, the issue with the car is people like the look but don’t like the way it drives, it is an off roader not a soft roader, it has slow steering because it has a recirculating ball screw rather than rack an pinion, is is so the steering wheel doesn’t get ripped out of your hands in ruts off road, it’s a really simple engine as it needs to be simple to work on and turbos aren’t ideal in off road situations on a small petrol engine, there is talk of a commercial version which gets around the rules of emissions and eventually a hybrid drive train but people in Malaysia, India, Australia Russia aren’t going to want that as it is more to go wrong, Jimny wasn’t ever a massive seller until now people like the look of it, underneath it’s still not a great road car, saying that mines just clocked 17.5k miles in 11 months, it’s not the fastest but I don’t have people waiting behind me on the A and B roads, motorways are a bit different as it only has a 5 speed box it revs it’s arse off, 75mph is 3750rpm but it’s a Suzuki engine it’ll do it and more all day and still I get an average of 39 mpg.
They can sell these all day outside of the EU because there isn’t anything like it, if they hybrid it with some clever engine they will probably limit sales in other countries
They can sell these all day outside of the EU because there isn’t anything like it, if they hybrid it with some clever engine they will probably limit sales in other countries
jamoor said:
Weren’t we the ones that had a say in making eu policies anyway?
I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
The difference is, if the British public don't like our governments policies, we can vote them out.I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
Exclee said:
I was lucky enough to get one in February last year, I live in mid wales on one of the top 10 worst roads in Britain hence buying it, the issue with the car is people like the look but don’t like the way it drives, it is an off roader not a soft roader, it has slow steering because it has a recirculating ball screw rather than rack an pinion, is is so the steering wheel doesn’t get ripped out of your hands in ruts off road, it’s a really simple engine as it needs to be simple to work on and turbos aren’t ideal in off road situations on a small petrol engine, there is talk of a commercial version which gets around the rules of emissions and eventually a hybrid drive train but people in Malaysia, India, Australia Russia aren’t going to want that as it is more to go wrong, Jimny wasn’t ever a massive seller until now people like the look of it, underneath it’s still not a great road car, saying that mines just clocked 17.5k miles in 11 months, it’s not the fastest but I don’t have people waiting behind me on the A and B roads, motorways are a bit different as it only has a 5 speed box it revs it’s arse off, 75mph is 3750rpm but it’s a Suzuki engine it’ll do it and more all day and still I get an average of 39 mpg.
They can sell these all day outside of the EU because there isn’t anything like it, if they hybrid it with some clever engine they will probably limit sales in other countries
You basically nailed it , I'm willing to bet the 1.5 in this is bulletproof due to its sheer simplicity , it's a proper offroader and no one complains about the older defender having terrible road manners because it's not a road car.They can sell these all day outside of the EU because there isn’t anything like it, if they hybrid it with some clever engine they will probably limit sales in other countries
This is basically the same the only real difference being it's a Suzuki so it won't break down on you all the time.
Bagzie88 said:
You basically nailed it , I'm willing to bet the 1.5 in this is bulletproof due to its sheer simplicity , it's a proper offroader and no one complains about the older defender having terrible road manners because it's not a road car.
This is basically the same the only real difference being it's a Suzuki so it won't break down on you all the time.
I think that sums the car up well. But as such just how many would you expect to be sold in the UK where there is genuinely next to zero actual requirement for such a vehicle? This is basically the same the only real difference being it's a Suzuki so it won't break down on you all the time.
The UK just isn’t a viable market for a vehicle that needs to be sold by the hundred thousands not the few thousand and you’re not going to get a Japanese firm pulling out of a market without being able to save face by announcing that it’s all someone else’s fault.
DonkeyApple said:
I think that sums the car up well. But as such just how many would you expect to be sold in the UK where there is genuinely next to zero actual requirement for such a vehicle?
The old Jimny was exactly the same and there's plenty of those - or there is around here. I see them every day. It will be a small market, but those owners will want to trade up at some point, plus new ones joining them.
RicksAlfas said:
DonkeyApple said:
I think that sums the car up well. But as such just how many would you expect to be sold in the UK where there is genuinely next to zero actual requirement for such a vehicle?
The old Jimny was exactly the same and there's plenty of those - or there is around here. I see them every day. It will be a small market, but those owners will want to trade up at some point, plus new ones joining them.
DonkeyApple said:
There is a unit on the local industrial estate that has about 20 or so outside for work at any given time. You never really see them on the roads around here so I assume most are used as actual estate cars which they are very good at but I doubt it’s any kind of viable market for a firm like Suzuki which needs to sell vast numbers in any market to get the numbers to stack up.
Plenty on the road around here. Often driven by hairy legged, blue rinse, jolly hockey stick types. Just your type DA! skyrover said:
jamoor said:
Weren’t we the ones that had a say in making eu policies anyway?
I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
The difference is, if the British public don't like our governments policies, we can vote them out.I’ve never understood the us and them approach, it was a union of countries who all had a say in how it’s run
I always thought that the EU was a democratic organisation that was run by its members and all decisions needed the agreement of its members.
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