Why don't more performance car enthusiasts ride motorbikes?

[Esceptico]

RobM77 said:

If you're talking about driving/riding flat out, the public road is a pointless arena for vehicles that fast, and for the race track there are of course loads of cars quicker than bikes for under £20k. The reason a hypercar costs hundreds of thousands of pounds is the requirement to be road legal and comfortable for crossing continents - that's the odd thing about cars that you don't really get with bikes, which in contrast are much the same in broad terms for road and track.

The relevant issue is as you've both said already, and as I mentioned earlier on: the type of speed achieved is completely different, so each offer a completely different experience. If someone loves speed, they'd be well advised to sample both, and probably to own both. For example, a Formula Renault and Moto GP bike lap at pretty much the same lap time on all the main circuits they share (2m01s at Silverstone GP if I remember rightly), but the bike is topping out at over 200mph, whereas the car only gets to about 135mph - you can infer the cornering and braking differences from that. They're entirely different experiences, and of course complement each other very well - I've got a number of friends who track both all through the season.

The skiing analogy made by the OP was a very specific one about effort vs reward and has been much understood so far on this thread. In the context of a track, the two are similar: you travel to do it, you have to get changed to do it, you have a load of fun, you go home again, like many hobbies. The relevant issue which I brought up (and which was mis-understood spectacularly), was whether bikes offer those sorts of rewards on the public road to warrant the hassle. Many of my biker friends think not - one mate of mine has a lovely superbike that he barely ever rides on the road for that very reason, yet he'd happily go skiing, or on a track day on the bike.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 16th March 09:34

You can't exploit a bike or car on the road like you can do on track. Yet I love riding/driving on the road as well as on track because they offer very different experiences. I don't need to be at maximum speed all the time to enjoy riding/driving over great roads, with lovely scenery. Road riding/driving has its own challenges, which are very different from being on track but enjoyable in their own way. In many ways riding/driving on the road is more dangerous than on track. Dealing with those hazards whilst still making reasonable progress is part of the fun for me.

I think a key point is where you live. A good friend lives in West London and although he has a bike he hardly ever uses it. Problem for him is that he has to ride 45 minutes to get to any decent roads. That just makes it too difficult. I can find decent roads (although not brilliant roads compared to those I've driven in Wales or Scotland) within 10 minutes of my front door. If I had to drive/ride 45 minutes to find decent roads I probably wouldn't have a performance car or bike.

[Esceptico]

foxbody-87 said:

Well, I’d probably be a fair weather biker then! To be honest, with some exceptions a lot of people with performance cars don’t really go out to play in the rain either so perhaps my original point doesn’t really stand.

I know what puts me off getting a bike is the licence. I’ve no desire to put myself through the stress/expense of another driving test! Perhaps I might stretch to a CBT...

Maybe things have changed but getting my bike license was very easy. I did direct access as had driven for a few years. Half day for CBT. Then I think I had four lessons on a big bike then took the test. Then I bought a bike and started to learn to ride!

[Esceptico]

Bumblebee7 said:

V8RX7 said:

In fairness I don't think commuting on a 125 is what this thread was getting at.

I commuted into Uni on a DT175 for 6 months I think that was closer to cycling than motor bike riding.

Similarly the majority work in a suit - so a change of clothes is required.

The original thread was performance bikes and performance cars, but there have been a few comments since regarding people's views on biking in general so thought I'd add in my own experience.

Sure my 125 isn't a performance bike, but I don't think an xxxbhp beast would really help on my commute down the A40 every morning with a 40mph limit enforced by average speed cameras. Not that they're really relevant given that it's mostly stationary traffic during rush hour anyway. Also a geared 125 is statistically far less likely to be stolen, especially in a bright colour and unfortunately that had to be a consideration living in London.

Also, my experience so far indicates I would own and use a performance car but wouldn't buy a performance bike. For me they serve different purposes.

Have you tried riding a super bike? Or is your experience of bikes your 125? If yes that would be like driving a reliant robin and deciding you wouldn’t fancy a Ferrari 488!

[Esceptico]

Rawwr said:

It's really easy to pick up a pint of milk and a loaf of bread. This is the correct routine:

1. Put on socks
2. Put on stretchy undersuit which makes me look like the guy in the Milk Tray advert has really let himself go
3. Put on leathers, eventually, after much fighting and thinking; "I really need to work out."
4. Put on boots after collapsing in a chair from exhaustion of step 3
5. Put on gloves, feel like a superhero
6. Take off gloves because I forgot I need to put my helmet on
7. Put in ear plugs, usually so far that they're touching my brain
8. Put on helmet
9. Put on gloves, feel like a superhero
10. Open garage
11. Carefully get the wonderful Fireblade SP out of the garage, being careful not to scrape the exhaust on the wall
12. Get on bike
13. Start bike
14. Think it's a wonderful day so need to warm-up the bike before going to the shop
15. Warm-up the bike by visiting the Cotswolds
16. Ride around the Cotswolds for a bit, enjoying the view, the smells and the roads
17. Come home
18. Put bike back in garage, being careful not to scrape the exhaust on the wall
19. Close garage
20. Take off gloves
21. Take off helmet
22. Kick off boots in a sweaty mess
23. Gently ease out of leathers like being squeezed out of a tube of toothpaste
24. Take off undersuit
25. Get dressed
26. Put on trainers
27. Get wallet
28. Get in car
29. Go to shop
30. Buy milk and bread
31. Come home to enjoy milk and bread

Almost correct. I would add a 16(a) to your list:

Stop for a coffee. Text wife and ask her to pop to the shops for bread and milk as you are busy.

Then you can delete 26-31!

[Esceptico]

Wacky Racer said:

Regarding 1000cc sports bikes, the throttle goes both ways.

If you want to ride like an idiot, don't moan when things go tits up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbiR_fQ38s&t=...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5dzLH3Cwpg&sns=em

Being a dick doesn’t need two wheels. Works just as well with four...

[Esceptico]

Wacky Racer said:

Regarding 1000cc sports bikes, the throttle goes both ways.

If you want to ride like an idiot, don't moan when things go tits up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbiR_fQ38s&t=...

To be fair there are some pretty amazing skills being demonstrated in that video. Why you would do that on a public road (with seemingly no protective gear except a helmet) I have no idea. And why they aren’t being nicked for it? Only in America!

[Esceptico]

downsman said:

As a petrolhead and Caterham owner I understand the attraction of motorbikes

Early on in my driving life, I seriously considered getting a bike license and my brother was very keen. However, to me the excitement in driving quickly has always been pushing the vehicle close to its limits of grip in corners. If you chose the right car, (front not mid engined, reasonably narrow tyres etc) even an average driver can get close to the limit and have a good chance of keeping it on the road (or preferably track).

On a bike, if the back wheel slides even a little, it takes very good reactions and a lot of skill to stay on. If the front wheel goes, that's it, you're off. Add to that the dangers of applying the brakes in a bend on a bike (not that its a good idea in a car either) . For someone of my modest driving skills, four wheels give me a chance to enjoy the vehicle near the limit with some chance of saving the situation if I get carried away.

From what I see out on the road, it seems a lot of riders enjoy their performance in a straight line, but are very wary of pushing in the bends. When enjoying a tight road in mundane road cars (like our Citroen C1) I have been held up by many a motorcycle with no chance of overtaking when we reach the next straight

The safe way to drive and ride quickly on the road is the slow in and fast out method. The speed with which you can take corners on either is almost never the safe speed, except for those corners where you have a clear line of sight.

[Esceptico]

JimSuperSix said:

Perhaps the "clarkson" comments are just an accurate representation of how a lot of non-bike-riders feel? I'm not sure why anyone would hold a similar opinion to him just because it's him, as he's a gigantic arse, about as far from "cool" as is possible.

Clarkson is a coward and that is why he won’t ride bikes (unlike May and Hammond). Of course he can’t admit that to himself or the public so he makes cheap Jibes. Very transparent.

[Esceptico]

Flibble said:

Never appealed because I like to drive in normal clothing in an air conditioned box. And be able to carry passengers and luggage.

most bikers are like that too. Which is why we own cars as well as bikes.

[Esceptico]

V8RX7 said:

Gavia said:

If I need to be in an air conditioned box, or carry passengers, or luggage then I take my car, which is a performance car. When I don’t, I can take one of my motorbikes.

Ah but what if when you analyse you usage you find that you are ALWAYS carrying passengers or items ?

I looked to buy a Supercar when I came into some cash and I then realised that the only time I'd use it was if I went out for a drive - which I never do these days.

I always try to take the "scenic" route and avoid motorways but I CBA to go out for a drive for the sake of it.

Not sure you are (any longer) a performance car enthusiast if you CBA to go for a drive. I’ve driven up to Scotland twice and Wales half a dozen times in recent years (from East Anglia) just to go driving. Can’t wait for the next trip! Just wish I could talk my friends into doing a similar trip on two wheels.

[Esceptico]

To non car enthusiasts all cars look alike. I give my wife as evidence for the prosecution! It is only the time we waste looking at magazines etc that means we can. If you start riding bikes you do the same with bikes and then they don’t look the same. You also appreciate them more.

[Esceptico]

V8RX7 said:

Esceptico said:

Not sure you are (any longer) a performance car enthusiast if you CBA to go for a drive.

I think you'll find the vast majority don't.

As I said I buy the most fun cars for the job and take the best routes but with crowded roads, lower limits, scameras etc there's not much fun left in it.

I'd argue 99% of cars post 2000 aren't fun - anything that the aids can't be fully turned off or that weigh over 1300kg generally are't IMO and I've never been able to have fun within the NSL

I've modified almost every car I've owned and I've owned hundreds - currently own around 10 including a supercharged MX5, 350bhp RX7 and I'm building a V8 RX7 so I'm quietly confident that I am an enthusiast.

People into cars for lots of reasons. Perhaps I should have started the thread with “performance driving” to focus on that element. I was thinking more that if you enjoy the rush of driving a performance car it seems natural you would get a similar buzz out of bikes.

I agree with your comment about cars over 1300. Except for the last one the trips I did was in a stripped out 1972 911. Only 220 bhp. But weighed around about 1000kg. It was great to drive.

[Esceptico]

Ahbefive said:

bloomen said:

Too dangerous. End of.

Even if I had all the training, all the skills, all the equipment, all it takes is one granny spazzing out in my vicinity and it's over.

From decades of driving I know perfectly well how dangerous that is. Riding? Nah.

Agree with this. Also bikes are a massive faff, cold, wet, special riding clothing and I like being able to occasionally get the back end out in a car.

Bikes are...meh.

You can get the back end out on a bike too

[Esceptico]

Ahbefive said:

Loyly said:

Ahbefive said:

Bikes are...meh.

They're more fun than cars though the compromises are obvious. I love cars but once you've tried a bike the genie out of the hotel and you realise cars aren't as enjoyable or exciting. They're more practical and handy though, which is great if you don't have the space or the stones for a bike.

You are talking about something subjective as though it is fact when it isn't. I much prefer the fun of cars to bikes but can see how someone might feel the opposite.

The only fact in your post is the last sentence.

It is subjective but have you tried bikes? Pretty much all bikers are car drivers too so can make a comparison, even if biased.

Problem for car drivers is to make a proper comparison they need to take the test then learn to ride properly (confidently and safely). That takes a lot of time and effort.

[Esceptico]

timberman said:

My take on this is
yes I love the exhilaration of accelerating hard, I always have , but only when sat in a car seat

Bikes do nothing for me , never have,never will

I appreciate that a big bike will pull harder than most cars and probably give a greater sensation of speed
but Im not interested in sitting on a saddle and holding onto a handlebar, I want to be sat in a seat and hold onto a steering wheel.

And no it's not about comfort or safety, i'ts about the fact that I love to drive not ride

when I'm in my car and accelerate hard I get pushed into the seat and enjoy the way It pulls, like being on a ride at the amusement park,

a bike will never give me the same sensation so I'm not interested in them.

people who prefer bikes no doubt prefer the sensation it gives over that of a car which is fine

neither one is better than the other and we should all appreciate these things are still available for us to enjoy and have not yet been phased out or outlawed

That doesn’t seem to make sense. You love the physical sensation of acceleration in a car and amusement park rides but not interested in an even more intense buzz? Not even curious? Really?

[Esceptico]

Cotty said:

Esceptico said:

That doesn’t seem to make sense. You love the physical sensation of acceleration in a car and amusement park rides but not interested in an even more intense buzz? Not even curious? Really?

Why does it need to be a more intense buzz? Why can't you accept he is happy doing what he does.

Do you think you could have a more intensive buzz by jumping out of an airplane? Do you think he would care if its a more or less intense buzz for you? It seems you are trying to project your interest onto someone who has different interests.

I am not projecting my interests. He said he liked acceleration. I’m trying to understand if you like it why you wouldn’t like another form of it.

I like hot foods. Not everyone does. I understand that. I would just find it a bit hard to understand someone if they said they loved chillies and English mustard but had no interest in wasabi. Or someone that loves beef saying they would never try lamb. Doesn’t really compute to me.

[Esceptico]

Gavia said:

Whilst a keen Superbike rider and performance car driver, I love hot food, especially chillies amd love English mustard, but have zero interest in any form of Japanese food, that includes Wasabi

Do you like horseradish with roast beef?

[Esceptico]

Biker's Nemesis said:

I like egg and chips.

So do I. But I have no interest in ham, egg and chips. Nope. None at all.

[Esceptico]

The Mad Monk said:

Esceptico said:

Yes bikes are a bit more dangerous than cars.

Quote:-

"According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car".

Nowadays, that would be a good enough reason for me.

Unlike you perhaps, when I get into my car I am not a nervous wreck because I expect to die. I don't rewrite my will every morning. Or send texts to my wife and daughter to let them know I have reached my destination without dying. (That doesn't mean I don't take care to avoid having an accident). Why? Partly because the risk is pretty low - but not zero - of me dying. I have also got experience of not dying, having driven at least half a million miles so far without having been killed in a crash. I know some people that have died in car crashes. I know some people that have been killed on bikes. But I also know more people that have died of cancer and I don't have a panic attack every time I have a bacon sarnie or pint of beer!

35 times a risk that is very low...is also a pretty low risk. Is that too hard to understand?

[Esceptico]

liner33 said:

Wow some bikers really bigging themselves up " my bike is insanely fast " my bikes spins the tyre at 100mph" ie I am super manly and alpha male and no mere mortal could handle what I am packing between my legs

Mentalists

“Some” or “one”?