So that panic buying looks really silly now...
Discussion
david.h said:
I think the "top up" advice was a smart move by the Gov't. Everyone went & topped up, there had to be 7 days notice of a strike, so good time to get the petrol stations refilled & if motorists just bought as normal (but had full tanks, not half full) then where is the problem? Fuel transferred from petrol station tanks to vehicle tanks....Simples! Neat bit of leverage to reduce the blackmail by the tanker drivers!
I agree with this & said as much on the original panic thread. Very smart move by the government..martin84 said:
It was a horrifically bad move by a horribly incompetent waste of space of a Government.
People panic bought £80 million worth of fuel.Hardly £1.4 trillion of debt though is it. In the grand scheme of things it would take a much bigger cock up on a much greater scale to come anywhere near the incompetence of the last government.
Ozzie Osmond said:
???????
Are you suggesting people went out and used their cars more because there was a strike threat? All people have done is buy fuel a bit sooner than they otherwise would have done but they haven't paid any more tax for it. Miniscule cash flow advantage for the treasury barely worth a row of beans.
Prices increase which also increases tax revenue. And as noted above, the timing may well have been rather important when it comes to quarterly figures. Are you suggesting people went out and used their cars more because there was a strike threat? All people have done is buy fuel a bit sooner than they otherwise would have done but they haven't paid any more tax for it. Miniscule cash flow advantage for the treasury barely worth a row of beans.
People don't honestly think the Govt thought it was a wise idea to tell people they might not have the fuel to get to work so they best fill up now did you?!!?
No sane person could say the Government's advice was a smart move. The Government's advice brought the entire country to a stand-still and drained every filling station in the land. Some will say the buying started before Maude-gate but the last thing the problem needed was senior cabinet ministers encouraging panic buying.
Telling people to 'keep topped up' is contradictory to 'fill up if you've got half a tank.'
This resulted in people in ques as long as 45 cars (which I saw first hand) waiting to buy about £6 of fuel. I'm not making it up thats actually really what happened. People bought fuel, drove home and thought 'Cameron told me to top up, I should replace what I used getting back from the station!!!!' Duhhhhhhh!!! I mean seriously, considering no strike was ever called and any possible strike could've been weeks or even months away, were we supposed to stay in this que blocking roundabouts and junctions forever? The strike (if there was one) might not have been called until November for all we knew, were we supposed to que endlessly for the rest of the year?
Bottom line is its pathetic advice when you don't even know the dates of any strike. If the strike was confirmed to start the following monday then I'd view this differently, but the Government acted as though a strike was about to start which was never the case.
The Government's advice led to gridlocked roads, turned roundabouts into car parks, caused havoc for the petrol retail trade which are still struggling to re-stock and the Cameron-induced ques were frankly dangerous to traffic.
Don't let blind faith and love in the Conservative Party taint your view on their handling of this issue. If a Labour Government took the exact same tact this website would be murdering them. You'd say it was Labour and the Unions in cahoots to encourage panic buying to show the country how much they depend on their tanker driver friends. Theories of quarterly tax figure scams would've been replaced with 'Miliband trying to get tanker drivers over-time!'
Telling people to 'keep topped up' is contradictory to 'fill up if you've got half a tank.'
This resulted in people in ques as long as 45 cars (which I saw first hand) waiting to buy about £6 of fuel. I'm not making it up thats actually really what happened. People bought fuel, drove home and thought 'Cameron told me to top up, I should replace what I used getting back from the station!!!!' Duhhhhhhh!!! I mean seriously, considering no strike was ever called and any possible strike could've been weeks or even months away, were we supposed to stay in this que blocking roundabouts and junctions forever? The strike (if there was one) might not have been called until November for all we knew, were we supposed to que endlessly for the rest of the year?
Bottom line is its pathetic advice when you don't even know the dates of any strike. If the strike was confirmed to start the following monday then I'd view this differently, but the Government acted as though a strike was about to start which was never the case.
The Government's advice led to gridlocked roads, turned roundabouts into car parks, caused havoc for the petrol retail trade which are still struggling to re-stock and the Cameron-induced ques were frankly dangerous to traffic.
Don't let blind faith and love in the Conservative Party taint your view on their handling of this issue. If a Labour Government took the exact same tact this website would be murdering them. You'd say it was Labour and the Unions in cahoots to encourage panic buying to show the country how much they depend on their tanker driver friends. Theories of quarterly tax figure scams would've been replaced with 'Miliband trying to get tanker drivers over-time!'
The interview martin, you appear to have missed it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqxBmtOkvM
This is such a minor even trivial matter compared with the f
k ups of the last government.
Oh and what position do you hold in the Labour party?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYqxBmtOkvM
This is such a minor even trivial matter compared with the f
k ups of the last government.Oh and what position do you hold in the Labour party?
NoNeed said:
This is such a minor even trivial matter compared with the fk ups of the last government.
Oh and what position do you hold in the Labour party?
Oh thats how low PH is now is it? Sunken to new depths. A minor fk ups of the last government.Oh and what position do you hold in the Labour party?
k-up is deemed 'good sound advice' just because the previous lot were worse. Get off your Tory high horse and admit Cameron and his friends brought the entire nation to a stand still. We'd have been in a que blocking roundabouts for months on end to top up with £6 of fuel endlessly if they hadn't retracted their advice.Everybody has already agreed the Government made a massive f
kup here. Its about time PH realised it as well despite its pro-Tory agenda.The Conservatives are unique on PH in the way they only win. They never do any wrong. If Labour had done this you'd say it was a shambles, but the Tories are allowed to do it. On PH everything the Tories do gets spun to be right. It needs to end.
Edited by martin84 on Saturday 14th April 22:37
martin84 said:
Oh thats how low PH is now is it? Sunken to new depths. A minor fk-up is deemed 'good sound advice' just because the previous lot were worse. Get off your Tory high horse and admit Cameron and his friends brought the entire nation to a stand still. We'd have been in a que blocking roundabouts for months on end to top up with £6 of fuel endlessly if they hadn't retracted their advice.
Everybody has already agreed the Government made a massive fkup here. Its about time PH realised it as well despite its pro-Tory agenda.
Yes it's a minor fk-up is deemed 'good sound advice' just because the previous lot were worse. Get off your Tory high horse and admit Cameron and his friends brought the entire nation to a stand still. We'd have been in a que blocking roundabouts for months on end to top up with £6 of fuel endlessly if they hadn't retracted their advice.Everybody has already agreed the Government made a massive f
kup here. Its about time PH realised it as well despite its pro-Tory agenda.k up at most, if anything it was the sky reporter (watch the link I provided) trying to make trouble (maybe murdoch wants revenge)People bought fuel that is all ALL.
the last governemt created £1.4 trillion of debt that is causing people to lose a lot more than a jerry can of fuel.
The last government have saddled our children and their children and probably thier grand children with a mountain of debt.
This goverment got people to fill thier tanks.
It was a minor f
k up at most.NoNeed said:
Yes it's a minor fk up at most, if anything it was the sky reporter (watch the link I provided) trying to make trouble (maybe murdoch wants revenge)
People bought fuel that is all ALL.
the last governemt created £1.4 trillion of debt that is causing people to lose a lot more than a jerry can of fuel.
The last government have saddled our children and their children and probably thier grand children with a mountain of debt.
This goverment got people to fill thier tanks.
It was a minor fk up at most.
What about tuition fees, riots, Andy Coulsen, Liam Fox, the savage destruction of the NHS, cash for PM access, granny tax, fuel tax, pasty tax, brainless reform of welfare which wont save any money, rising unemployment, unwarranted attack on pensioners in the same day as a tax cut for the rich - except those who want to give to Charity - and the general fact this Government lacks the competence to improve the economic situation? Osborne is a complete moron and this lot after two years have not made a single dent in anything. And their PR management is quite abysmal, if they're paying anybody for this strategy that persons salary should be the first one off the taxpayers bill.k up at most, if anything it was the sky reporter (watch the link I provided) trying to make trouble (maybe murdoch wants revenge)People bought fuel that is all ALL.
the last governemt created £1.4 trillion of debt that is causing people to lose a lot more than a jerry can of fuel.
The last government have saddled our children and their children and probably thier grand children with a mountain of debt.
This goverment got people to fill thier tanks.
It was a minor f
k up at most.A minor f
k up is still a fk up, I wanted to keep this thread on the fuel subject but you're the one who's comparing mishandling of a NON EXISTANT fuel strike with racking up a national debt. In the context of the fuel issue the Governments role in the chaos is major, you cannot just hide behind Labour every time the Tories make a fk up just so as you dont have to criticise your beloved party. This Government's had its share of fk ups as well you know, thats all I'm saying.Are you saying any mistake the Tories make is perfectly fine so long as they're not as bad as the last lot? I dont mind you smashing Labour so long as you treat the Conservative's the same when they make a mistake. According to PH the Tories only win, they never seem to lose. Interesting considering they never won the election
Edited by martin84 on Saturday 14th April 22:53
deeen said:
It was a brilliant negotiating move, of course thay can't admit that in public.
How was bringing the entire nation to a stand-still, draining fuel supplies, causing dangerous traffic conditions, chaos to the petrol industry (who weren't expecting the Government to encourage panic buying) and giving tanker drivers extra hours, pay and leveredge a 'brilliant negotiating move' exactly? All they did was play into Unite's hands, the Government can cause the public enough trouble without the tanker drivers going on strike, imagine the chaos if they actually did strike?!The fact is PH is the only community which will back the Tories on this. Every newspaper poll shows the public blame the Government for the crisis, the petrol stations blame the Government for the crisis, the petrol retailers association blames the Government for the crisis. You cant blame the Unions because they never went on strike. Deliveries continued as normal.
Jimboka said:
david.h said:
I think the "top up" advice was a smart move by the Gov't. Everyone went & topped up, there had to be 7 days notice of a strike, so good time to get the petrol stations refilled & if motorists just bought as normal (but had full tanks, not half full) then where is the problem? Fuel transferred from petrol station tanks to vehicle tanks....Simples! Neat bit of leverage to reduce the blackmail by the tanker drivers!
I agree with this & said as much on the original panic thread. Very smart move by the government..We all winged then, but what would we have done if a strike had happened a week later and they had said nothing.
surveyor said:
Agreed unions tactical position blown out of the water by pre emptive action.
We all winged then, but what would we have done if a strike had happened a week later and they had said nothing.
Pre-emptive action of giving the Unions drivers extra pay and hours? Pre-emptive action of causing the public all sorts of problems just because Tory boys fancy a fight with Labour? We all winged then, but what would we have done if a strike had happened a week later and they had said nothing.
Weak argument because you dont seem to realise any strike was SEVEN DAYS AWAY even if it happened!!!! No strike dates were ever confirmed!!! Can you people get this into your thick brains please! There was no chance of a strike suddenly happening a week later without getting clear notice from the Unions first.
If strike dates were confirmed - which they never were - that is when the Government should be in contact with the petrol industry to increase supplies and THEN issue a warning. Don't go creating the panic before a strike is even confirmed especially when petrol retailers haven't had forewarning to expect panic buying. All that happened was a Union did a ballot, they never confirmed any strike, they never confirmed any dates, nothing happened and there was no chance or risk of fuel deliveries stopping immediately.
Saying 'what if the strike happened next week...' is not valid because the fact that was always a non existant scenario.
Edited by martin84 on Saturday 14th April 23:04
I loved the panic buying, and then the realization that it was in vain, but I dont specifically mean petrol.
I work for a company that sells many items mail order, including jerry cars
we had maaaaaaaany orders for jerry cans
then we had maaaaany order cancellations where people realized they'd been suckered in
I work for a company that sells many items mail order, including jerry cars
we had maaaaaaaany orders for jerry cans
then we had maaaaany order cancellations where people realized they'd been suckered in
What the government said was a good idea. It was the media that got the public to panic. The government never said for people to fill jerry cans when a strike hadn't been anounced. Francis Maude said "If and when there is a strike, a bit of extra fuel in a jerry can in the garage is a sensible precaution to take".
paulrussell said:
What the government said was a good idea. It was the media that got the public to panic. The government never said for people to fill jerry cans when a strike hadn't been anounced. Francis Maude said "If and when there is a strike, a bit of extra fuel in a jerry can in the garage is a sensible precaution to take".
It may have been a good idea if the Union had confirmed a strike and announced strike dates. Instead the Government's advice was premature and brought us the effects of a strike without a strike taking place. Blaming the media is a tired response. If the Government didn't say such stupid things they wouldn't be able to report it. When Maude said 'if and when there is a strike....' the public heard 'there is a strike.' Not only are there laws against what Maude suggested making it an unsafe and possibly illegal precaution rather than sensible, Cameron's advice was a typical Cameron oxymoron of 'top up but dont que.'Britain's 33 million motorists don't all top up on the same day, which is handy because petrol stations don't have enough fuel at any one time for that. When Cameron said 'top up' any sane person knew that would result in ques. You can't tell everybody to top up without there being a que. Everybody hears that and goes 'everybody else will buy fuel, I must rush out and buy fuel!!!' so then everybody buys fuel to the point where panic buying is the only sensible option. If you don't panic buy the fuel you need then somebody else will panic buy it when they probably don't need it.
The moment the media put the words Union-Petrol-Vote-Strike-Prime-Minister-Says-Dont-Panic-Minister-Jerry-Can out there, people panic buy. I knew the Governments advice would lead to panic buying because people are stupid. People are moronic. The Nanny State is an excellent idea because people are quite dumb. The fact is I know this and so do you, so why didn't David Cameron know it? Whether the advice was well intended and just badly presented is irrelevent, the fact is that advice was always going to lead to chaos. My pet rabbit could've told you that before Cameron opened his trap.
I just want to know how PH would've reacted if a Labour Government had taken the exact same tact. Would you have accused them of incompetence and trying to create problems? I still think tax-quarterly etc theories wouldve been replaced with theories of Miliband and Unite in cahoots to grind nation to stand-still etc.
The Tories can get away with Labour-esque incompetence, but Labour can't, according to PH anyway.
Ozzie Osmond said:
???????
Are you suggesting people went out and used their cars more because there was a strike threat? All people have done is buy fuel a bit sooner than they otherwise would have done but they haven't paid any more tax for it. Miniscule cash flow advantage for the treasury barely worth a row of beans.
They filled up jam jars, milk bottles, bottle caps which they wouldn't have had otherwise, so there must have been more petrol sold during the panic than if they'd just bought as usual.Are you suggesting people went out and used their cars more because there was a strike threat? All people have done is buy fuel a bit sooner than they otherwise would have done but they haven't paid any more tax for it. Miniscule cash flow advantage for the treasury barely worth a row of beans.
PumpkinSteve said:
They filled up jam jars, milk bottles, bottle caps which they wouldn't have had otherwise, so there must have been more petrol sold during the panic than if they'd just bought as usual.
Thats the point. If people bought as usual there wouldn't have been a problem. The best way to get people to buy as usual was to not mention anything about any strike, just leave things to go on as normal. The Government however actively encouraged people to buy more fuel than they normally do. They encouraged stockpiling.They never notified retailers that they'd encourage this behaviour, where did the Government think all the extra fuel would come from? The Government dont even seem to realise how a petrol station works. God help us.
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