Possible crash for cash caught on Camera!
Discussion
hornetrider said:
teen_cerbera said:
Fume troll said:
Not so obvious to me; there is a white van alongside him, and then a black CRV looking thing in lane 2 both of which prevent him changing lanes.
But as my caption shows, you could easily pass it without entering the outside lane. The driving leading upto the crash certainly didnt look like that of someone who was under confident on the road. If he was so flustered that he had to stop dead on a dual, he certainly wouldnt dive out the car waving his arms after being hit. They all seemed very calm and "going through the motions" when they got out of the car. Would all 3 people really get out that quickly? All three were out within 2 or 3 seconds of the car coming to a stop in what appears to be a safe place.
I love a good debate
So I guess there's not enough info in the video alone to be conclusive. To prove that this was deliberate you'd have to have some additional evidence, such as:
- that these guys knew each other
- had dealings with others who had done this before
- had been going round and round that section of road waiting for the right moment
- phone records between the two car drivers
If it's a set up, it's a good one, good enough to convince most people at first sight I'd suggest, and (at the risk of more advertising!) very hard to spot without video.
Cheers,
FT.
It comes to a stop here, note the angle of the car in the first picture, you can see heavy breaking is still being applied as its "leaning" forward. Talking of angles, why did the Mercedes "turn in" to where the potential danger was, surely the natural reaction would be to keep it straight and expect a minor bump, or even turn the other way to avoid it (even though there was a car in the outside lane, i would have rather touched that than get rear ended by a truck).
teen_cerbera said:
Talking of angles, why did the Mercedes "turn in" to where the potential danger was, surely the natural reaction would be to keep it straight and expect a minor bump, or even turn the other way to avoid it (even though there was a car in the outside lane, i would have rather touched that than get rear ended by a truck).
Why do people do any of the things that they do when about to crash? You've got a split second to make a decision and execute it. I've had fairly extensive skid pan training which included cadence braking, but when I found myself heading towards the back of a van which had stopped with no brake lights on a wet day I promptly forgot every bit of it and jammed my foot on the pedal as hard as I could. It's easy to scrutinise afterwards when you've got a video with slow motion and freeze frame, but it's very different when you're in the middle of it.Having said that, as soon as three blokes got out and started rubbing their necks it looked pretty iffy.
teen_cerbera said:
It comes to a stop here, note the angle of the car in the first picture, you can see heavy breaking is still being applied as its "leaning" forward. Talking of angles, why did the Mercedes "turn in" to where the potential danger was, surely the natural reaction would be to keep it straight and expect a minor bump, or even turn the other way to avoid it (even though there was a car in the outside lane, i would have rather touched that than get rear ended by a truck).
teen_cerbera said:
It comes to a stop here, note the angle of the car in the first picture, you can see heavy breaking is still being applied as its "leaning" forward. Talking of angles, why did the Mercedes "turn in" to where the potential danger was, surely the natural reaction would be to keep it straight and expect a minor bump, or even turn the other way to avoid it (even though there was a car in the outside lane, i would have rather touched that than get rear ended by a truck).
at the crucial point where the golf does its last minute left turn the merc brakes and then critically turns to the left prior to impact - suggesting the merc was going to follow the golf to wherever.... only the truck is up its arse.
got a feeling that the truck driver should be b
ked for just being in a position where he couldn't stop adequately or pull out in time. and the golf and merc drivers should be b
ked for dangerous driving etc.it shouldn't have happened and if the trucker was paying more attention to the driving style of the merc he should have been wary at the outset... imo
Camber making that much difference to a car at that speed, I doubt it.
A valid point that these two cars knew each other and are innocently following one another, this may also explain why the Merc stopped and appeared to turn left to get off the Dual carriageway- in hope to continue trailling the Golf when it got moving again.
One thing I cant accept is these two cars dont know each other. The body language of the guys who get out of the Merc also sits uneasy with me, far to confident and appear "lairy" rather than confused and shook up.
A valid point that these two cars knew each other and are innocently following one another, this may also explain why the Merc stopped and appeared to turn left to get off the Dual carriageway- in hope to continue trailling the Golf when it got moving again.
One thing I cant accept is these two cars dont know each other. The body language of the guys who get out of the Merc also sits uneasy with me, far to confident and appear "lairy" rather than confused and shook up.
having had whiplash on a couple of occasions unfortunately from what i remember its not something you generally experience straight away, or you dont just all get out of a car rubbing your necks. More often than not the shock & adrenaline stops your feeling it. Thats what makes me suspicious of this video
That is clearly a set up. The Merc doesn't swerve right or make an attempt to move to the outside lane when the VW swerves left. Instead he hesitates and then turns slightly into the left lane leading off the dual carriageway. That would indicate his goal is to block the oncoming traffic behind him, not to avoid a collision.
I hope these scumbags get lengthy sentences.
I hope these scumbags get lengthy sentences.
T180985 said:
having had whiplash on a couple of occasions unfortunately from what i remember its not something you generally experience straight away, or you dont just all get out of a car rubbing your necks. More often than not the shock & adrenaline stops your feeling it. Thats what makes me suspicious of this video
Indeed - I got whacked quite hard at traffic lights (I was stopped), got out and was absolutely fine. Drove my (pretty buggered) car back home, only few miles away, felt a bit sick and curled up on the sofa. 8 hours later I could hardly move, and stayed that way for weeks.It seems too perfect to be true, I reckon the truck driver was in on it as well.
I can't believe the drivers of the Merc & Golf managed to control all of the variables and distance to possible impact point without the truck driver being in on it.
The distance & speed between the truck & Merc are just enough to slow down the truck enough to have a mild but not major accident.
The Golf & Merc and the truck driver are blocking the whole carriage way then accelerating away giving all vehicles the space they need on the dual carriage to perform in the safest scenario.
Most damning a professional truck driver takes no avoiding action whatsoever, indeed the last 0.5 sec before the impact he seems to coast into the back of the merc or the abs has let go. In these scenarios most HGV drivers would have headed for least populated lane (the slip road) to complete the braking manoeuvre.
I can't believe the drivers of the Merc & Golf managed to control all of the variables and distance to possible impact point without the truck driver being in on it.
The distance & speed between the truck & Merc are just enough to slow down the truck enough to have a mild but not major accident.
The Golf & Merc and the truck driver are blocking the whole carriage way then accelerating away giving all vehicles the space they need on the dual carriage to perform in the safest scenario.
Most damning a professional truck driver takes no avoiding action whatsoever, indeed the last 0.5 sec before the impact he seems to coast into the back of the merc or the abs has let go. In these scenarios most HGV drivers would have headed for least populated lane (the slip road) to complete the braking manoeuvre.
Edited by OneDs on Wednesday 3rd November 10:38
rpguk said:
Other then the fact it's a bunch of Eastern Europeans I don't see anything to suggest it's a crash for cash.
1 - The golf seems to be responsible and it looks like he's missed his lane and then cut in.
2 - The chaps are no doubt all for payouts but getting a lorry to smash into the back of you like that. There are easier ways to feign whiplash then getting a lorry to smash you quite badly. To be fair there's a fair chance they actually did get whiplash.
3 - They are using a nice enough merc. Might be a hire car, but seems like they went to more expense then necessary.
So, yeah not as clear cut as I might have expected from their tone.
Could you point me to the evidence that suggest that Eastern europeans are more likely to engage in "crash for cash" activities than others?1 - The golf seems to be responsible and it looks like he's missed his lane and then cut in.
2 - The chaps are no doubt all for payouts but getting a lorry to smash into the back of you like that. There are easier ways to feign whiplash then getting a lorry to smash you quite badly. To be fair there's a fair chance they actually did get whiplash.
3 - They are using a nice enough merc. Might be a hire car, but seems like they went to more expense then necessary.
So, yeah not as clear cut as I might have expected from their tone.
Edited by rpguk on Wednesday 3rd November 09:11
Jebus, anyone watch the sky video link? The footage of the gang seen conffering in the petrol station after trying it on , then later seen at the road side having managed to cause a crash whilst still in the same clothes etc just shows that they'll go out and during the course of a day get something for their efforts.
Seems like a dangerous way to try and earn some money to me. I certainly wouldn't like to be stuck in the back of a car that is damaged enough for the doors not to open and potentially see flames start licking up the side of the car.
Also top bit of driving at about 1.58 in the sky video, where the red escort estate almost ploughs into the back of the initial collision.
Seems like a dangerous way to try and earn some money to me. I certainly wouldn't like to be stuck in the back of a car that is damaged enough for the doors not to open and potentially see flames start licking up the side of the car.
Also top bit of driving at about 1.58 in the sky video, where the red escort estate almost ploughs into the back of the initial collision.
This looks iffy to me.
Like a few have already said, as soon as they got out the were acting up and rubbing shoulders and necks. When I suffered a crash my first reaction was not to rub my neck, in fact the pain full neck didn’t start until later that afternoon when my entire body was pretty sore.
The immediate reaction was to get out and be shocked, tremble etc, thee chaps just looked far to calm, as if they had experienced this many times.
Getting hit by a car is bad getting hit by a truck, no way you would be that calm.
Also someone has mentioned about a scam previously, I remember reading something in the papers a few months ago where a crash for cash group in Bradford had been caught, they had a habit of breaking whilst on a roundabout and catching people out.
Just found the link, sorry not bradford but in fact manchester
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8318...
Like a few have already said, as soon as they got out the were acting up and rubbing shoulders and necks. When I suffered a crash my first reaction was not to rub my neck, in fact the pain full neck didn’t start until later that afternoon when my entire body was pretty sore.
The immediate reaction was to get out and be shocked, tremble etc, thee chaps just looked far to calm, as if they had experienced this many times.
Getting hit by a car is bad getting hit by a truck, no way you would be that calm.
Also someone has mentioned about a scam previously, I remember reading something in the papers a few months ago where a crash for cash group in Bradford had been caught, they had a habit of breaking whilst on a roundabout and catching people out.
Just found the link, sorry not bradford but in fact manchester
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8318...
Edited by R360 on Wednesday 3rd November 11:23
Whether the Merc and Golf set this up or not, it's still the lorry drivers fault. He was clearly too close to the Merc for his vehicle size. If the Merc had only just gone into that lane then fair enough, but it appears like the Merc had been in that lane for a while, so why get so close.
It always amazes me how close some lorries drivers get on motorways. I was driving on the M1 this weekend (where the roadworks reduce the traffic speed to 50mph with average speedchecks). There were several HGV drivers within just a few feet from the back end of some cars - the car was doing a gps 50mph with cars in front of him and at the each side of him doing the same speed, and yet the HGV was about 10ft away from his rear bumper. If the car had to even touch his breaks for whatever reason there would have been contact.
There wasn't just 1 occurance of this either.
Sure, some cars were getting too close as well, but at least with similar mass and break performance a car has a chance of stopping.....HGV's have no chance.
EFA
It always amazes me how close some lorries drivers get on motorways. I was driving on the M1 this weekend (where the roadworks reduce the traffic speed to 50mph with average speedchecks). There were several HGV drivers within just a few feet from the back end of some cars - the car was doing a gps 50mph with cars in front of him and at the each side of him doing the same speed, and yet the HGV was about 10ft away from his rear bumper. If the car had to even touch his breaks for whatever reason there would have been contact.
There wasn't just 1 occurance of this either.
Sure, some cars were getting too close as well, but at least with similar mass and break performance a car has a chance of stopping.....HGV's have no chance.
EFA
Edited by itz_baseline on Wednesday 3rd November 11:53
Evo8MR JR said:
Also top bit of driving at about 1.58 in the sky video, where the red escort estate almost ploughs into the back of the initial collision.
See it so often! People so concerned with an accident that they dont realise they are heading right towards it, instead of being in their own lane. itz_baseline said:
Whether the Merc and Golf set this up or not, it's still the lorry drivers fault. He was clearly too close to the Merc for his vehicle size. If the Merc had only just gone into that lane then fair enough, but it appears like the Merc had been in that lane for a while, so why get so close.
It always amazes me how close some lorries drivers get on motorways. I was driving on the M1 this weekend (where the roadworks reduce the traffic speed to 50mph with average speedchecks). There were several HGV drivers within just a few feet from the back end of some cars - the car was doing a gps 50mph with cars in front of him and at the each side of him doing the same speed, and yet the HGV was about 10ft away from his rear bumper. If the car had to even touch his breaks for whatever reason there would have been contact.
There was just 1 occurance of this either.
Sure, some cars were getting too close as well, but at least with similar mass and break performance a car has a chance of stopping.....HGV's have no chance.
To be fair, if Lorry drivers assessed every single eventuallity, the roads would be in chaos, theres no indication, the Merc is to close to the VW for the HGV driver to see any indication & the merc also has a defective brake light, the incident appears to come from no where. It always amazes me how close some lorries drivers get on motorways. I was driving on the M1 this weekend (where the roadworks reduce the traffic speed to 50mph with average speedchecks). There were several HGV drivers within just a few feet from the back end of some cars - the car was doing a gps 50mph with cars in front of him and at the each side of him doing the same speed, and yet the HGV was about 10ft away from his rear bumper. If the car had to even touch his breaks for whatever reason there would have been contact.
There was just 1 occurance of this either.
Sure, some cars were getting too close as well, but at least with similar mass and break performance a car has a chance of stopping.....HGV's have no chance.
Heres another thought, watch the video again, assess the speed of the VW against that of the Merc, the speed seems identical with a small gap, the VW appears to lose VERY little speed before veering off, what would have happened if the Merc didnt turn his wheel and didnt brake at all, i dont think they would have made contact you know!
teen_cerbera said:
Camber making that much difference to a car at that speed, I doubt it.
Brake hard without a firm grip on your steering wheel and see where you end up...In any case, I'm not a crash investigator so can't comment. I expect the police are using the relevant experts, though.
This may not be the best example of their scam, but being involved in 120 accidents in a year 
The lorry driver wasn't leaving a gap, but by the looks of things the merc did some hard engine braking + handbrake? first to draw the lorry in before braking hard.
The rubbing necks is the give away, especially as they forget for a minute, then remember.
camber causing it to pull to the left is not really a possibility, the wheels were turned to the left (look how it reacts to being hit) and your natural reaction would be to move to the right.
The lorry driver wasn't leaving a gap, but by the looks of things the merc did some hard engine braking + handbrake? first to draw the lorry in before braking hard.
The rubbing necks is the give away, especially as they forget for a minute, then remember.
camber causing it to pull to the left is not really a possibility, the wheels were turned to the left (look how it reacts to being hit) and your natural reaction would be to move to the right.
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