RE: Chris Harris video: GT86 vs 370Z vs Cayman
Discussion
BrewsterBear said:
Ah, but I do get "get it" but I still can't bring myself to buy one despite my commute being perfect for it. 45 miles each way of rural A and B-roads over the Lincolnshire Wolds. Twisties, off-camber corners, long sweeping bends, dips and brows plus enough well sighted areas to overtake all of which would be immense fun if you had the road to yourself.
In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.
Good points. I guess for a daily in which it is intended it doesn't suit that. But surely the handling and feedback one can easily keep ahead of Sline audi and 330d in bends. I am sure it will do well anyway.In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.
Tyrewrecker said:
BrewsterBear said:
Ah, but I do get "get it" but I still can't bring myself to buy one despite my commute being perfect for it. 45 miles each way of rural A and B-roads over the Lincolnshire Wolds. Twisties, off-camber corners, long sweeping bends, dips and brows plus enough well sighted areas to overtake all of which would be immense fun if you had the road to yourself.
In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.
Good points. I guess for a daily in which it is intended it doesn't suit that. But surely the handling and feedback one can easily keep ahead of Sline audi and 330d in bends. I am sure it will do well anyway.In reality what will happen is you'll get to the first bend on a set of twisties, enjoying the balance of the car at which you'll become stuck behind a turbo-derv who's wrestling his nose heavy euro-box around the bends. At the next straight you'll go to overtake when the emasculated Tdi S-Line driver will take offence and prove he's still got it by leaving you in a cloud of diesel soot. At the next bends you'll just get round the first corner when you'll meet Mr. Middle Management again and the cycle will repeat. 200bhp is fine, just not at 7500rpm. The 170bhp derv-box will leave you for dead in a rolling start every time and it'll spoil all of your fun.
I definitely get it. Imagine the scenario: Out for a blast one Sunday morning and you're getting on it and some chap in an older BMW decides to try and stay with you. Now, is there really anyone on here that's going to say that you'd happily move over and let him past because you are having more fun and driver involvement? I don't think so. I for one would be frustrated that my ground up sports car is being reeled in. I'd also be annoyed that he has better luxury, higher quality materials and a much cheaper car to run.
I do really like this car. It's just underpowered and too expensive. It must be judged relative to what's available elsewhere, new and used.
I do really like this car. It's just underpowered and too expensive. It must be judged relative to what's available elsewhere, new and used.
CJP80 said:
I definitely get it. Imagine the scenario: Out for a blast one Sunday morning and you're getting on it and some chap in an older BMW decides to try and stay with you. Now, is there really anyone on here that's going to say that you'd happily move over and let him past because you are having more fun and driver involvement? I don't think so.
If someone comes up behind me who wants to go faster than me of course I let them past, whatever I'm driving and whatever they're driving. Frankly I'm disappointed that anyone who considers themselves a driving enthusiast would be selfish enough not to!Now THAT is a road test! Thanks Chris 
At first when Chris Harris arrived at EVO mag years ago I didn't like his journalistic style at all, I thought he was the second coming of Jeremy Clarkson! (OMG I think I just inadvertently compared JC to the other JC...well they both have curly hair don't they?) but lately I'm very impressed. Watching this made me feel I was listening to someone on who is on exactly the same wavelength as me on what we like about cars and driving.
I was disappointed in the GT86/BRZ up until now because I'd read about the 'too much grip not enough poke' viewpoint which made it sound like after all the hype the car was just another politically correct modern sell out, and not the real drivers car it could have been.
But watching this makes me think it could be exactly what a lot of us hoped for, and also something I might want to buy one day if my DC2R ever gives up, which is absolutely brilliant news. Good times.
At first when Chris Harris arrived at EVO mag years ago I didn't like his journalistic style at all, I thought he was the second coming of Jeremy Clarkson! (OMG I think I just inadvertently compared JC to the other JC...well they both have curly hair don't they?) but lately I'm very impressed. Watching this made me feel I was listening to someone on who is on exactly the same wavelength as me on what we like about cars and driving.
I was disappointed in the GT86/BRZ up until now because I'd read about the 'too much grip not enough poke' viewpoint which made it sound like after all the hype the car was just another politically correct modern sell out, and not the real drivers car it could have been.
But watching this makes me think it could be exactly what a lot of us hoped for, and also something I might want to buy one day if my DC2R ever gives up, which is absolutely brilliant news. Good times.
spameister said:
In Australia the cheapest Cayman S I found was $56,500;the GTS 86 is $39,460 new. I think it would depend on where you live as to whether the Cayman was a relevant comparison.
The thing I don't understand is if you don't like a car no one is forcing you to buy it. If the 86 is not fast enough for you that's fine; get a Cayman or 370Z whatever. I don't get why people think if something doesn't suit them then it must be faulty bad crap.
The thing I don't understand is if you don't like a car no one is forcing you to buy it. If the 86 is not fast enough for you that's fine; get a Cayman or 370Z whatever. I don't get why people think if something doesn't suit them then it must be faulty bad crap.
Edited by spameister on Thursday 16th August 00:31
The UK is one of the very few countries in the world where the price of a Cayman and a GT86 is remotely comparable.A fantastic video - it's great to see the cars really moving around on bumpy roads and Chris's enthusiasm for the car is infectious (and if people don't 'get' this car or think it's too slow, they are simply not listening to the video - and not seeing how fast the GT86 can be peddled in the twisties).
CJP80 said:
Tyrewrecker said:
Hilarious that 200bhp and a tad over 7secs is 'SO SLOW'. Good post though.
It's all relative is it not? When you're getting smoked by 330d's in your new £28k sports car it would prove frustrating.its only .3 sec quicker to 60 than a 1984 MR2
the GT86 is following the path of the elise going for driver purity over outright performance and some people will want this, others will want a bit more oomfff
roll on the blown STi PPP scooby version
CJP80 said:
Now, is there really anyone on here that's going to say that you'd happily move over and let him past because you are having more fun and driver involvement?
Yes, because I have a massive willy. Why are people so worried about being overtaken? You're letting someone past who wants to travel quicker, you're not being raped by a gang of foreign sailors!kambites said:
If someone comes up behind me who wants to go faster than me of course I let them past, whatever I'm driving and whatever they're driving. Frankly I'm disappointed that anyone who considers themselves a driving enthusiast would be selfish enough not to!
What if he doesn't want past but wants to see what the car is like.CJP80 said:
kambites said:
If someone comes up behind me who wants to go faster than me of course I let them past, whatever I'm driving and whatever they're driving. Frankly I'm disappointed that anyone who considers themselves a driving enthusiast would be selfish enough not to!
What if he doesn't want past but wants to see what the car is like.If manufacturers are being forced by regulation to find new ways to entertain us other than straight line speed then there is no better way than sideways.
On the track I can totally understand the philosophy of the GT86 idea, that experience of ringing a nicely balanced car right at the limit can be really special, but if you offered the same car with a supercharged AMG rivalling v8 and 400hp it WOULD be a better 'road' car.
On the track I can totally understand the philosophy of the GT86 idea, that experience of ringing a nicely balanced car right at the limit can be really special, but if you offered the same car with a supercharged AMG rivalling v8 and 400hp it WOULD be a better 'road' car.
Niffty951 said:
On the track I can totally understand the philosophy of the GT86 idea, that experience of ringing a nicely balanced car right at the limit can be really special, but if you offered the same car with a supercharged AMG rivalling v8 and 400hp it WOULD be a better 'road' car.
No, it would be a road car that suited your preferences better. For me it would almost certainly be a worse one. More power does not mean objectively better, only subjectively.
Since when was 200 bhp "not enough" to overtake something on the road?! 
Pretty much every car I've ever had has been under 200 bhp, cars such as my current Clio 172, and old 182, a DC2 Integra Type-R, BMW E36 328, all cars with between 165 and 200 bhp, none of them ever had any problems overtaking.
On the VERY RARE occasion that you had a cock in front of you that tried to speed up, their car was either still unable to stop you getting past, or you back off, and let them get on with it. And I can honestly count on one hand how many times that's happened in my life. Now, my MX5s occasionally had trouble getting past something, but then they only had 130 bhp (if that), and the cars I was trying to pass were generally pushing on a bit themselves.
Presumably the GT86 is about as quick as my Clio 172. The 172 is plenty fast enough to be fun. I am certainly happy to demonstrate to anyone who might otherwise have their doubts that ~ 170 bhp can be fun!
I had my doubts about the GT86, but actually I thought it looked great fun on this video. I can see the appeal. Looks good, great driving position, enough power, mobile, balanced chassis, good fuel economy, probably bullet proof reliability, cheap to run, a good all round car. The only problem I see is the asking price. I think at £20K it would have been an utter bargain; at £28K, it is pitched against faster rivals (not necessarily more fun), but in these days of pub bragging rights, this is a problem.
Pretty much every car I've ever had has been under 200 bhp, cars such as my current Clio 172, and old 182, a DC2 Integra Type-R, BMW E36 328, all cars with between 165 and 200 bhp, none of them ever had any problems overtaking.
On the VERY RARE occasion that you had a cock in front of you that tried to speed up, their car was either still unable to stop you getting past, or you back off, and let them get on with it. And I can honestly count on one hand how many times that's happened in my life. Now, my MX5s occasionally had trouble getting past something, but then they only had 130 bhp (if that), and the cars I was trying to pass were generally pushing on a bit themselves.
Presumably the GT86 is about as quick as my Clio 172. The 172 is plenty fast enough to be fun. I am certainly happy to demonstrate to anyone who might otherwise have their doubts that ~ 170 bhp can be fun!
I had my doubts about the GT86, but actually I thought it looked great fun on this video. I can see the appeal. Looks good, great driving position, enough power, mobile, balanced chassis, good fuel economy, probably bullet proof reliability, cheap to run, a good all round car. The only problem I see is the asking price. I think at £20K it would have been an utter bargain; at £28K, it is pitched against faster rivals (not necessarily more fun), but in these days of pub bragging rights, this is a problem.
Rawwr said:
Yes, because I have a massive willy. Why are people so worried about being overtaken? You're letting someone past who wants to travel quicker, you're not being raped by a gang of foreign sailors!
Ok, forget my road example. Would you say the same on a bring your own track day?If yes, then I bow down and worship you almighty Phallus man!
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