Rural drink-driving
Discussion
NomduJour said:
SpeckledJim said:
So it's largely pointless, unless the objective is to make life ever-so-slightly worse for the law-abiding masses
“If it saves just one life!”Better ban rear wheel drive whilst we're at it. And convertibles. And classic cars. And motorbikes. And pushbikes. And...
The failure rate of Project Avoid Death is going to be 100%.
bigothunter said:
All speed impairs safety just like all alcohol. Reduction is always safer. Zero tolerance is the final solution.
The speeding analogy holds...
But it's not all about safety, there is an economic balance to be struck as well.The speeding analogy holds...
Allowing people to drive at more than 0 mph helps the economy. Arguably, allowing people to drive having had a drink helps the entertainment economy. Most pubs and restaurants serve alcoholic drinks, which must be a draw for customers, so they don't want to alienate those that also want/need to drive.
Maybe something some people don't understand is that seasoned drinkers aren't effected the same way as people who rarely drink.
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
I'm not boasting, just simply making the point that it's different strokes for different folks. Were there to be any modern music on the radio that is something I have a very low tolerance for and would crash the car immediately.
I'd consider that £1000 drinkers license mentioned by Donkey Apple a few pages ago. That was a good idea.
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
I'm not boasting, just simply making the point that it's different strokes for different folks. Were there to be any modern music on the radio that is something I have a very low tolerance for and would crash the car immediately.
I'd consider that £1000 drinkers license mentioned by Donkey Apple a few pages ago. That was a good idea.
ingenieur said:
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
You might think that. But you'd be wrong.You might not *feel* like you're impaired. But studies (you know, those ones you don't think exist) show that alcoholics (sorry, "seasoned drinkers") suffer poor reaction times, lack of awareness etc. just like everybody else.
deckster said:
ingenieur said:
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
You might think that. But you'd be wrong.You might not *feel* like you're impaired. But studies (you know, those ones you don't think exist) show that alcoholics (sorry, "seasoned drinkers") suffer poor reaction times, lack of awareness etc. just like everybody else.
ingenieur said:
deckster said:
ingenieur said:
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
You might think that. But you'd be wrong.You might not *feel* like you're impaired. But studies (you know, those ones you don't think exist) show that alcoholics (sorry, "seasoned drinkers") suffer poor reaction times, lack of awareness etc. just like everybody else.
Sticks. said:
deckster said:
There's a difference between "I can do things without physically injuring myself" and "I am completely unimpaired".
He didn't say completely unimpaired. He said less so that people who rarely drink AIUI. And seasoned drinker does not = alcoholic.
His words. And of course I was being somewhat flippant. After all, most of us grow out of boasting about how much we can drink at about the age of 19.
deckster said:
ingenieur said:
deckster said:
ingenieur said:
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
You might think that. But you'd be wrong.You might not *feel* like you're impaired. But studies (you know, those ones you don't think exist) show that alcoholics (sorry, "seasoned drinkers") suffer poor reaction times, lack of awareness etc. just like everybody else.
I used to enjoy a few glasses of wine of a weekend evening, and I couldn't be trusted with eBay. Judgement seriously impaired.
I did, from time to time, use power tools after a couple of drinks but that doesn't mean it was a good idea.
Sticks. said:
And seasoned drinker does not = alcoholic.
True... They're simply recreational drug users rather than addicts.But, in my experience there is a significant overlap on the Venn diagram showing "people who get a bit shirty when excessive and/or inadvisable drinking is called into question" and "people who have a physical or mental dependency on alcohol". For balance, you could also draw a Venn diagram of "people who say marijuana isn't addictive" and "people who smoke marijuana every single day" and the overlap would be about the same...
That isn't to poke fun, people don't like to be told what to do (or not to do) but it's a serious health concern when someone essentially gives up on moderating their intake to a couple of units per day.
donkmeister said:
True... They're simply recreational drug users rather than addicts.
You're doing it again. What you call flippant comes across as having a dig. It makes you look like you've got an axe to grind and devalues what you say imho. donkmeister said:
But, in my experience there is a significant overlap on the Venn diagram showing "people who get a bit shirty when excessive and/or inadvisable drinking is called into question" and "people who have a physical or mental dependency on alcohol". For balance, you could also draw a Venn diagram of "people who say marijuana isn't addictive" and "people who smoke marijuana every single day" and the overlap would be about the same...
That isn't to poke fun, people don't like to be told what to do (or not to do) but it's a serious health concern when someone essentially gives up on moderating their intake to a couple of units per day.
People don't generally like having their bahaviour questioned, particularly if they feel the person doing it has no authority to. Try telling some who's badly parked to do it properly. That isn't to poke fun, people don't like to be told what to do (or not to do) but it's a serious health concern when someone essentially gives up on moderating their intake to a couple of units per day.
I suppose someone who etc chocolate when they're not hungry or has multiple bags or pairs of shoes (no names etc) is addicted.
Do you question a lot of other people's drinking?
Sticks. said:
donkmeister said:
True... They're simply recreational drug users rather than addicts.
You're doing it again. What you call flippant comes across as having a dig. It makes you look like you've got an axe to grind and devalues what you say imho. Not that I disagree with that he's saying. Alcohol dependency is a complex subject and there is indeed an overlap between those who react badly to certain phrases and those who have unacknowledged issues.
I have no problem with saying that I have a mild social dependency on alcohol. I actively look forward to having a beer at the end of the day and get momentarily annoyed when I remember that I have something on that evening so I can't. It is a recreational drug, and I enjoy using it; why would anybody have a problem with admitting that?
People claiming that alcohol has no effect on them and that they're somehow special do concern me.
Castrol for a knave said:
Not really, think about it. You can stop speeding at any time. you can't stop intoxication immediately, but you know that and just here to stir the pot. .
Recovery rates from the offences of speeding and intoxication are obviously very different. But both transgressions are optional and the risk diminishes as levels decrease. In absolute terms, only zero alcohol and zero speed are 'safe'. Anything above zero imposes risk.Hence the analogy holds. If you consider my comments to be provocative, so be it...
Sticks. said:
People don't generally like having their bahaviour questioned, particularly if they feel the person doing it has no authority to. Try telling some who's badly parked to do it properly.
I suppose someone who etc chocolate when they're not hungry or has multiple bags or pairs of shoes (no names etc) is addicted.
Do you question a lot of other people's drinking?
Think I know where you sit on that Venn diagram I suppose someone who etc chocolate when they're not hungry or has multiple bags or pairs of shoes (no names etc) is addicted.
Do you question a lot of other people's drinking?
Just kidding, it's a fair point. If they ever ban coffee, I don't mind admitting I would be a sweating, shivering mess rocking in the corner muttering something about the dragons.
No, I don't actually question anyone on their drinking. I'm not some sort of temperance fascist or buzzkill who shows people pictures of pickled livers whilst they enjoy a beer. If someone wants to get s
tfaced that's entirely up to them. It's a free(ish) country, they're a big boy/girl.Where I find it annoying is when I'm at the pub and someone tells me their doctor has told them to stop drinking, whilst they have a drink in their hand. Or they bang on about "people who drink at home" being the problem drinkers whilst they polish off their 6th pint, as if their liver knows the difference between "social drinking", "home drinking" and indeed "al fresco import strength lager enthusiasm". Or they explain how they lied when their doctor asked about alcohol consumption because of some mythical factoring GPs apply, or implying that GPs are just trying to spoil their fun instead of helping them live a longer, happier, healthier life.
I wouldn't voice that to a drunk person, what's the point, but when friends have said stuff like that when sober I have queried it, politely. I also find that the older I get, the more my cohort moves towards the extremes; most are drinking less, but unfortunately some are drinking more.
Edited by donkmeister on Friday 12th August 15:54
ingenieur said:
Maybe something some people don't understand is that seasoned drinkers aren't effected the same way as people who rarely drink.
I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
I'm not boasting, just simply making the point that it's different strokes for different folks. Were there to be any modern music on the radio that is something I have a very low tolerance for and would crash the car immediately.
I'd consider that £1000 drinkers license mentioned by Donkey Apple a few pages ago. That was a good idea.
And yet they set the laws so that the vast majority of people that are impaired by a few pints (or three large glasses of wine) aren't allowed to drive.I for instance, can have a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, then go outside and work on a car using tools with hurty potential etc with a third glass of wine on the tool bench as I'm going along, after that another glass of wine in front of the telly before bed. In the morning I will wake up fresh as a daisy with no hangover or other ill effects. I could - but don't - drive after 3 glasses of wine without impairment.
I'm not boasting, just simply making the point that it's different strokes for different folks. Were there to be any modern music on the radio that is something I have a very low tolerance for and would crash the car immediately.
I'd consider that £1000 drinkers license mentioned by Donkey Apple a few pages ago. That was a good idea.
They also suggest you shouldn't use dangerous machinery while drunk, I can't think why though!
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