Aggressive police driving
Discussion
coppice said:
I am absolutely not anti police and with the exception of the incident reported above - which was obviously my fault from MPH1977's elevated position - I have found police drivers just fine.
As a volunteer with St Johns Ambulance Bridage mph has recieved some driver training, hence his elevated position. Of course these volunteer organisations provide an excellent service but they do occasionally tend to atract "a certain type" ( a particular rain resistant garment with a lift up hood springs to mind).Being a trainer & assessor for most of the courses mph alludes to I work with a lot of ex-traffic police. If daring to critise the driving of a cop is anti-plod then they are their own worst offenders
That explains it - perhaps the most OCD person I have ever met was such a volunteer . I'm sure he was in a minority - sterling work and all that - but sometimes the possession of a clipboard and a high vis jacket confers an unwarranted degree of self importance on the owner. Allegedly.
7mike said:
coppice said:
I am absolutely not anti police and with the exception of the incident reported above - which was obviously my fault from MPH1977's elevated position - I have found police drivers just fine.
As a volunteer with St Johns Ambulance Bridage mph has recieved some driver training, hence his elevated position. Of course these volunteer organisations provide an excellent service but they do occasionally tend to atract "a certain type" ( a particular rain resistant garment with a lift up hood springs to mind).Being a trainer & assessor for most of the courses mph alludes to I work with a lot of ex-traffic police. If daring to critise the driving of a cop is anti-plod then they are their own worst offenders
There's a funny thing that comes from working in governance and compliance roles , you tend to have to research the regulatory environment you work in, especially when your practice is called into question as a result of your health.
There's a funny thing that comes from holding professional accountability for your own practice the practice of others and for the teaching and training of others.
do you want to top out the stereotypes and insults by having a go over my long term health condition as well? or are you just another bully who has to resort having a go when others won't back down.
as for those who want to throw accusations around at volunteers / reservists etc i nthe emergency services don't for get to mention that when you dial 999 and comms will make sure not to send you any sad anoraky First Responders, SJA or Red Cross Ambulance Crews, Immediate Care Doctors, Specials Constables or RDS fire fighters ... and you'll be waiting a really long time for Mountain Rescue as the RAF full time teams have been disestablished in favour of it being a secondary role ... the coast guard cliff rescue teams and the RNLI have no 'full time' equivalent ( I lie actually Spurn Point and the 2 inner Thames RNLI stations have paid staff ot her than the Engineer)
Keep digging do..,. and as nobody even knew about your long term health condition I don't think it was going to feature too much in the discussion, even though it may possibly be one of the few things we have in common.However , to return to the original point you seem - unfathomably - to use your status as some sort of trump card to demonstrate that every victim of aggressive police driving - rare but not unkown - is actually the fault of the victim him or herself. Now I am sure that when you have your blue lights on you feel terribly important but do give it a rest eh ?
coppice said:
Keep digging do..,. and as nobody even knew about your long term health condition I don't think it was going to feature too much in the discussion, even though it may possibly be one of the few things we have in common.However , to return to the original point you seem - unfathomably - to use your status as some sort of trump card to demonstrate that every victim of aggressive police driving - rare but not unkown - is actually the fault of the victim him or herself. Now I am sure that when you have your blue lights on you feel terribly important but do give it a rest eh ?
again the illogical extrapolation has been drawn some posters claim to have been 'surprised' by tailgaters - this suggests poor observation and /.or situational awareness may be a factor - also how many people when 'surprised' when driving unthinkingly either back off the accelerator or push it a little harder ( hence the stuff about the gap opening and closing between the two vehicles when they realise they are being followed closely)
some posters think that by accelerating away to 'put some space between us' that they will solve the problem of tailgating - even though it;s generally a bad idea and it'll infuriate the A4 tdi s-line / 320d company car driver with penile adequacy issues ...
Some posters have demonstrated that their knowledge of the theory surrounding driving is rusty, based on passing their DSA test x years ( or even decades) ago - and they may never have picked up the highway code since, never mind any other books or going and doing something , anything, to develop their driving . these same posters don;t appear to understand the concept of learning new things first needs to you learn that there are things you don;t know or that 'common sense' and intuition aren't necessarily the way things are done ... ( my experience with teaching and assessing is in healthcare as this is my work background and i like many others working in healthcare hold a HE level training and assessing qualification - mine happens to be at level 6 as at the time did it the funded places were for degree level (6) or masters level (7) - as with Nursing moving to a degree as the academic award for pre-reg courses they need assessors at levle 6 or above ...
as people have obviously been 'researching' my posting history , and i've not hidden my long term condition from anyone or the fact it;s mental health related , i was waiting for that to be brought up especially as we've gone down the route of portraying the volunteer and reserve components of the emergency services as Anoraks ...
Many years ago a friend told me a tale; driving home at 70mph on the M4 at one in the morning.
A car a long way back with headlights on full for 10 minutes or so.
Eventually, it drew alongside, turned on the blue lights & pulled him over.
Why have you pulled me? I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong.
No sir, you weren't, but would you please ask the gentleman in the back (his father) what exactly this means
demonstrates the two fingered salute
A car a long way back with headlights on full for 10 minutes or so.
Eventually, it drew alongside, turned on the blue lights & pulled him over.
Why have you pulled me? I wasn't speeding or doing anything wrong.
No sir, you weren't, but would you please ask the gentleman in the back (his father) what exactly this means
demonstrates the two fingered salute
The dangerous driver that nearly killed me and my dad, actually had the time to wind down his window and shout at me for no reason. My feeling is these guys have ironclad job security, they can do whatever they like and will cover their ass when in the wrong. Once when a women pleb realised her made up story didn't add up, she accused me of being on drugs. Further, I got three points from a pleb that said he heard me speeding in hatfield business park, 5 minutes before that he made a right turn at a junction with a no right turn sign. I've lost count how many times I've been dangerously tailgated.
mph1977 said:
Are we fishing for a bite there ? especially with the incorrect spellings and reference to a 40 year out of date despite of the Organisation. ah go on then ...
Sorry mate didn't realise you were one of the PH spelling police too, I'll even try to begin sentences with capital letters if it will make you feel better mph1977 said:
There's a funny thing that comes from working in governance and compliance roles , you tend to have to research the regulatory environment you work in, especially when your practice is called into question as a result of your health.
There's a funny thing that comes from holding professional accountability for your own practice the practice of others and for the teaching and training of others.
do you want to top out the stereotypes and insults by having a go over my long term health condition as well? or are you just another bully who has to resort having a go when others won't back down.
No idea what your long term health issues have to do with this thread but as far as bullying & not backing down goes, with over thirty posts on this thread pointing out the inadequacies of others i suggest you look a bit closer to home.There's a funny thing that comes from holding professional accountability for your own practice the practice of others and for the teaching and training of others.
do you want to top out the stereotypes and insults by having a go over my long term health condition as well? or are you just another bully who has to resort having a go when others won't back down.
mph1977 said:
as for those who want to throw accusations around at volunteers / reservists etc i nthe emergency services don't for get to mention that when you dial 999 and comms will make sure not to send you any sad anoraky First Responders, SJA or Red Cross Ambulance Crews, Immediate Care Doctors, Specials Constables or RDS fire fighters ... and you'll be waiting a really long time for Mountain Rescue as the RAF full time teams have been disestablished in favour of it being a secondary role ... the coast guard cliff rescue teams and the RNLI have no 'full time' equivalent ( I lie actually Spurn Point and the 2 inner Thames RNLI stations have paid staff ot her than the Engineer)
I've already said the volunteer services do an excellent job, but of course, choosing to ignore the word 'occasionally' suits your little rant. And on that note, I think I will agree with Busta.
mph1977 said:
Rovinghawk said:
StottyZr said:
Quite, was a good read until MPH wouldn't shut up.
If I were thinking out loud I'd say he is a complete and utter bellrod of the highest caliber.
In his defence, he apparently has massively better training, skills & situational awareness than most of us. If I were thinking out loud I'd say he is a complete and utter bellrod of the highest caliber.
RH
Edited by Rovinghawk on Friday 9th November 11:40
Gary
R7YN said:
I can honestly say I've never come across this kind of driving from the Police.
In 25 years that's never happened (maybe when I was a teen but then I probably deserved it.) maybe it's the sensible car I have?
Not happened in the Audi yet.
Tailgaters annoy me in general but I also realise that far from "putting my life in danger" they're actually merely just a brief annoyance. If they're too close I leave a bigger gap in front of me.
This has two aims.
1. To leave a safe distance between me and the car in front.
2. To p
s off the tailgater. 
P.S St Johnners = knobbers.
7mike said:
mph1977 said:
Are we fishing for a bite there ? especially with the incorrect spellings and reference to a 40 year out of date despite of the Organisation. ah go on then ...
Sorry mate didn't realise you were one of the PH spelling police too, I'll even try to begin sentences with capital letters if it will make you feel better mph1977 said:
There's a funny thing that comes from working in governance and compliance roles , you tend to have to research the regulatory environment you work in, especially when your practice is called into question as a result of your health.
There's a funny thing that comes from holding professional accountability for your own practice the practice of others and for the teaching and training of others.
do you want to top out the stereotypes and insults by having a go over my long term health condition as well? or are you just another bully who has to resort having a go when others won't back down.
No idea what your long term health issues have to do with this thread but as far as bullying & not backing down goes, with over thirty posts on this thread pointing out the inadequacies of others i suggest you look a bit closer to home.There's a funny thing that comes from holding professional accountability for your own practice the practice of others and for the teaching and training of others.
do you want to top out the stereotypes and insults by having a go over my long term health condition as well? or are you just another bully who has to resort having a go when others won't back down.
mph1977 said:
as for those who want to throw accusations around at volunteers / reservists etc i nthe emergency services don't for get to mention that when you dial 999 and comms will make sure not to send you any sad anoraky First Responders, SJA or Red Cross Ambulance Crews, Immediate Care Doctors, Specials Constables or RDS fire fighters ... and you'll be waiting a really long time for Mountain Rescue as the RAF full time teams have been disestablished in favour of it being a secondary role ... the coast guard cliff rescue teams and the RNLI have no 'full time' equivalent ( I lie actually Spurn Point and the 2 inner Thames RNLI stations have paid staff ot her than the Engineer)
I've already said the volunteer services do an excellent job, but of course, choosing to ignore the word 'occasionally' suits your little rant. And on that note, I think I will agree with Busta.
Mph; Patronising behavior throughout.
jaf01uk said:
mph1977 said:
Rovinghawk said:
StottyZr said:
Quite, was a good read until MPH wouldn't shut up.
If I were thinking out loud I'd say he is a complete and utter bellrod of the highest caliber.
In his defence, he apparently has massively better training, skills & situational awareness than most of us. If I were thinking out loud I'd say he is a complete and utter bellrod of the highest caliber.
RH
Edited by Rovinghawk on Friday 9th November 11:40
Gary
In thick fog on an unlit road whether you have front fogs or not sometimes putting even dipped beams on means you are faced nothing but the millions , if not billions of tiny reflectors shining your lights back at you.
1a. short version : Do you need the lights to see or do you need the lights to help others see you ?
2. Interesting illogical conclusion that you draw re tailgating as well , the point I have repeatedly and consistently made is that people with better situational awareness and using their observational skills are not surprised by tailgaters - having noticed them sooner and noticed their behaviour sooner - because they are not surprised they won;t do the unconscious of and back on the throttle when they realise - hence reducing or not experiencing the whole ' can kept coming up and dropping back ' thing - because their speed remains constant rather than varying ...
3. the whole ' boot it to put some space between us' idea I'm struggling to think of a situation where this is safe without using exemptions ( acknowledging that some roads have artificially lowered speed limits either for political reasons (thanks to curtain twitching hand wringers and the idiot faction among the likes of Brake) or to reduce risks further - such as when a once trunk route through a settlement is bypassed and they want to encourage the through traffic onto the bypass and provide a nicer 'urban environment') and also that some NSL roads ( and motorways in particular) have visibility and design factors that allow design speeds in excess of the NSL without creating too much additional risk .
4. I'm unsure as to whether it's utter ignorance of deliberate cantankerousness on behalf of some people but their refusal to accept that their dogmatic attitudes towards ritualised practice can and should be challenged and that their knowledge might not be all it could - e.g. from this thread the poster who suggested that a police driver must be poor because he didn't ritually use his indicators.
GTIR said:
In 25 years that's never happened (maybe when I was a teen but then I probably deserved it.) maybe it's the sensible car I have?
Not happened in the Audi yet.
Tailgaters annoy me in general but I also realise that far from "putting my life in danger" they're actually merely just a brief annoyance. If they're too close I leave a bigger gap in front of me.
This has two aims.
1. To leave a safe distance between me and the car in front.
2. To p
s off the tailgater. P.S St Johnners = knobbers.
Surely if you're being tailgated by someone driving aggressively, the safest option is to simply move over and allow them past in as safely and quickly a manner as possible.
Holding them up, given that they're already driving aggressively won't do anything other than make them take ever increasingly dangerous risks to get past, and ultimately they could end up causing an accident. This would, of course - be their doing, but surely the knowledge that the person being tailgated could simply have pulled to the left and allowed them past rather than have them overtake in an unsafe manner and end up ploughing head on into another innocent driver or similar would eat away at you, and could technically leave you open to prosecution if it was proven that you drove in a manner far below that of a safe and competent driver.
As drivers, surely the only objective we have is to get from point a to point b safely, and in a way that doesn't inconvenience others. I personally have no problem ceding my position to someone driving aggressively behind me, and will do whatever I can in order to allow their passage, but the "they're driving like a knob so I'll piss them off by holding them up" mentality is nothing but lunacy, and it tends to be this type of driver who are the first to rant and rave about how everyone else on the road is a prat, and how they tend to always be embroiled in road rage situations.
Again, this isn't specifically highlighting GTIR, but the point I picked up on in his post.
Mr Happy said:
Not wanting to intentionally highlight GTIR, but the bit I've emboldened above is something I see on here quite a lot, by myriad posters as well as out on the roads and it's something that I still, to this day don't understand why people feel like it is a good thing to do.
Surely if you're being tailgated by someone driving aggressively, the safest option is to simply move over and allow them past in as safely and quickly a manner as possible.
Holding them up, given that they're already driving aggressively won't do anything other than make them take ever increasingly dangerous risks to get past, and ultimately they could end up causing an accident. This would, of course - be their doing, but surely the knowledge that the person being tailgated could simply have pulled to the left and allowed them past rather than have them overtake in an unsafe manner and end up ploughing head on into another innocent driver or similar would eat away at you, and could technically leave you open to prosecution if it was proven that you drove in a manner far below that of a safe and competent driver.
As drivers, surely the only objective we have is to get from point a to point b safely, and in a way that doesn't inconvenience others. I personally have no problem ceding my position to someone driving aggressively behind me, and will do whatever I can in order to allow their passage, but the "they're driving like a knob so I'll piss them off by holding them up" mentality is nothing but lunacy, and it tends to be this type of driver who are the first to rant and rave about how everyone else on the road is a prat, and how they tend to always be embroiled in road rage situations.
Again, this isn't specifically highlighting GTIR, but the point I picked up on in his post.
glad to see that other readers of the thread have picked up on the dangerous behaviour of some of the 'victims' of tailgating ...Surely if you're being tailgated by someone driving aggressively, the safest option is to simply move over and allow them past in as safely and quickly a manner as possible.
Holding them up, given that they're already driving aggressively won't do anything other than make them take ever increasingly dangerous risks to get past, and ultimately they could end up causing an accident. This would, of course - be their doing, but surely the knowledge that the person being tailgated could simply have pulled to the left and allowed them past rather than have them overtake in an unsafe manner and end up ploughing head on into another innocent driver or similar would eat away at you, and could technically leave you open to prosecution if it was proven that you drove in a manner far below that of a safe and competent driver.
As drivers, surely the only objective we have is to get from point a to point b safely, and in a way that doesn't inconvenience others. I personally have no problem ceding my position to someone driving aggressively behind me, and will do whatever I can in order to allow their passage, but the "they're driving like a knob so I'll piss them off by holding them up" mentality is nothing but lunacy, and it tends to be this type of driver who are the first to rant and rave about how everyone else on the road is a prat, and how they tend to always be embroiled in road rage situations.
Again, this isn't specifically highlighting GTIR, but the point I picked up on in his post.
mph1977 said:
1. Jaf with reference to the 'fog ' comment - during daylight hours and unless it's an absolute pea souper the use of dipped or main beam headlights in mist / fog is counter productive as the light from the head light beams is reflected back from the millions of small water droplets that make up the fog ... so side lights to high light your presence may be an appropriate option , as might sides and fogs, also remember what the law says about the minimum lights required in an area with street lighting ...
In thick fog on an unlit road whether you have front fogs or not sometimes putting even dipped beams on means you are faced nothing but the millions , if not billions of tiny reflectors shining your lights back at you.
1a. short version : Do you need the lights to see or do you need the lights to help others see you ?
2. Interesting illogical conclusion that you draw re tailgating as well , the point I have repeatedly and consistently made is that people with better situational awareness and using their observational skills are not surprised by tailgaters - having noticed them sooner and noticed their behaviour sooner - because they are not surprised they won;t do the unconscious of and back on the throttle when they realise - hence reducing or not experiencing the whole ' can kept coming up and dropping back ' thing - because their speed remains constant rather than varying ...
3. the whole ' boot it to put some space between us' idea I'm struggling to think of a situation where this is safe without using exemptions ( acknowledging that some roads have artificially lowered speed limits either for political reasons (thanks to curtain twitching hand wringers and the idiot faction among the likes of Brake) or to reduce risks further - such as when a once trunk route through a settlement is bypassed and they want to encourage the through traffic onto the bypass and provide a nicer 'urban environment') and also that some NSL roads ( and motorways in particular) have visibility and design factors that allow design speeds in excess of the NSL without creating too much additional risk .
4. I'm unsure as to whether it's utter ignorance of deliberate cantankerousness on behalf of some people but their refusal to accept that their dogmatic attitudes towards ritualised practice can and should be challenged and that their knowledge might not be all it could - e.g. from this thread the poster who suggested that a police driver must be poor because he didn't ritually use his indicators.
I will only respond to one point- your asinine comment that in fog sidelights to 'high light(sic)your presence may be an appropriate option'. No -sidelights have no use for any driving , unless supplemented by fog lights or dipped heads as they are near invisible, especially when people with a little more brain are using dipped lights. There is an expression you may want to learn- 'see and be seen'..... In thick fog on an unlit road whether you have front fogs or not sometimes putting even dipped beams on means you are faced nothing but the millions , if not billions of tiny reflectors shining your lights back at you.
1a. short version : Do you need the lights to see or do you need the lights to help others see you ?
2. Interesting illogical conclusion that you draw re tailgating as well , the point I have repeatedly and consistently made is that people with better situational awareness and using their observational skills are not surprised by tailgaters - having noticed them sooner and noticed their behaviour sooner - because they are not surprised they won;t do the unconscious of and back on the throttle when they realise - hence reducing or not experiencing the whole ' can kept coming up and dropping back ' thing - because their speed remains constant rather than varying ...
3. the whole ' boot it to put some space between us' idea I'm struggling to think of a situation where this is safe without using exemptions ( acknowledging that some roads have artificially lowered speed limits either for political reasons (thanks to curtain twitching hand wringers and the idiot faction among the likes of Brake) or to reduce risks further - such as when a once trunk route through a settlement is bypassed and they want to encourage the through traffic onto the bypass and provide a nicer 'urban environment') and also that some NSL roads ( and motorways in particular) have visibility and design factors that allow design speeds in excess of the NSL without creating too much additional risk .
4. I'm unsure as to whether it's utter ignorance of deliberate cantankerousness on behalf of some people but their refusal to accept that their dogmatic attitudes towards ritualised practice can and should be challenged and that their knowledge might not be all it could - e.g. from this thread the poster who suggested that a police driver must be poor because he didn't ritually use his indicators.
Oh - point 4 - pot, kettle I think.
Edited by coppice on Sunday 11th November 17:51
Mr Happy said:
Not wanting to intentionally highlight GTIR, but the bit I've emboldened above is something I see on here quite a lot, by myriad posters as well as out on the roads and it's something that I still, to this day don't understand why people feel like it is a good thing to do.
Surely if you're being tailgated by someone driving aggressively, the safest option is to simply move over and allow them past in as safely and quickly a manner as possible.
Holding them up, given that they're already driving aggressively won't do anything other than make them take ever increasingly dangerous risks to get past, and ultimately they could end up causing an accident. This would, of course - be their doing, but surely the knowledge that the person being tailgated could simply have pulled to the left and allowed them past rather than have them overtake in an unsafe manner and end up ploughing head on into another innocent driver or similar would eat away at you, and could technically leave you open to prosecution if it was proven that you drove in a manner far below that of a safe and competent driver.
As drivers, surely the only objective we have is to get from point a to point b safely, and in a way that doesn't inconvenience others. I personally have no problem ceding my position to someone driving aggressively behind me, and will do whatever I can in order to allow their passage, but the "they're driving like a knob so I'll piss them off by holding them up" mentality is nothing but lunacy, and it tends to be this type of driver who are the first to rant and rave about how everyone else on the road is a prat, and how they tend to always be embroiled in road rage situations.
Again, this isn't specifically highlighting GTIR, but the point I picked up on in his post.
All well and good in day to day tailgating situations where one driver wishes to travel faster than another, I have the same attitude as you.Surely if you're being tailgated by someone driving aggressively, the safest option is to simply move over and allow them past in as safely and quickly a manner as possible.
Holding them up, given that they're already driving aggressively won't do anything other than make them take ever increasingly dangerous risks to get past, and ultimately they could end up causing an accident. This would, of course - be their doing, but surely the knowledge that the person being tailgated could simply have pulled to the left and allowed them past rather than have them overtake in an unsafe manner and end up ploughing head on into another innocent driver or similar would eat away at you, and could technically leave you open to prosecution if it was proven that you drove in a manner far below that of a safe and competent driver.
As drivers, surely the only objective we have is to get from point a to point b safely, and in a way that doesn't inconvenience others. I personally have no problem ceding my position to someone driving aggressively behind me, and will do whatever I can in order to allow their passage, but the "they're driving like a knob so I'll piss them off by holding them up" mentality is nothing but lunacy, and it tends to be this type of driver who are the first to rant and rave about how everyone else on the road is a prat, and how they tend to always be embroiled in road rage situations.
Again, this isn't specifically highlighting GTIR, but the point I picked up on in his post.
The majority of the instances in this thread are where the tailgater (plod) has every opportunity to pass but chooses not to. In my instance it was an empty dual carriageway. I also believe most contributors, including myself, made a concious effort to allow the tailgater to pass or reduced their speed for safety reasons. When someone is intent on tailgating you for the sake of it there is very little you can do, and pulling over doesn't seem like a sensible option if you haven't identified it as a police car and don't know their motive for targeting you.
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