RE: Mini Mk3 unveiled
Discussion
Agoogy said:
completely missed his point...
'In it's day', the Mini was revolutionary in it's brief and execution and comparable in all other aspects of car design, safety etc.
'In it's day', the MINI (R53) was a good looking, good handling, over engineered badly packaged cash-in on the style and memory of the original. It didn't try to be revolutionary in any area really.
..so in that regard, as a revolutionary packaging masterpiece it fails.
Now the R56 added weight and bulk and retained the packaging faults
and this new one adds weight and bul and gets smacked in the face with the ugly stick.
they are two quite obvioulsy different propositions in their own moment in time.
To release this new 'travesty' on Sir Alec's birthday is a joke.
I recommend a vist to Sniff Petrol to better explain...
http://sniffpetrol.com/2013/11/21/bmw-plans-new-ca...
Did the Mini offer much more in terms of cheap mass mobility than the Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV? They did the same job - get a nation back on the road following a war-ruined economy. Sure it was front-engined transverse, but it had no hatchback (unlike a Renault 4) and was uncomfortable.'In it's day', the Mini was revolutionary in it's brief and execution and comparable in all other aspects of car design, safety etc.
'In it's day', the MINI (R53) was a good looking, good handling, over engineered badly packaged cash-in on the style and memory of the original. It didn't try to be revolutionary in any area really.
..so in that regard, as a revolutionary packaging masterpiece it fails.
Now the R56 added weight and bulk and retained the packaging faults
and this new one adds weight and bul and gets smacked in the face with the ugly stick.
they are two quite obvioulsy different propositions in their own moment in time.
To release this new 'travesty' on Sir Alec's birthday is a joke.
I recommend a vist to Sniff Petrol to better explain...
http://sniffpetrol.com/2013/11/21/bmw-plans-new-ca...
The BMW Mini while not revolutionary in an engineering sense persuaded Americans and Asian markets to pay premium prices for a small car, something previously thought impossible. In the US, small = cheap = uncool. Especially if the small car is a hatchback. MINI changed that in a way the Golf and other small cars never managed and consequently made BMW a shedton of money. There's nothing the MINIs size that sells for anywhere near its price in any numbers.
Wadeski said:
Did the Mini offer much more in terms of cheap mass mobility than the Fiat 500 or Citroen 2CV? They did the same job - get a nation back on the road following a war-ruined economy. Sure it was front-engined transverse, but it had no hatchback (unlike a Renault 4) and was uncomfortable.
The BMW Mini while not revolutionary in an engineering sense persuaded Americans and Asian markets to pay premium prices for a small car, something previously thought impossible. In the US, small = cheap = uncool. Especially if the small car is a hatchback. MINI changed that in a way the Golf and other small cars never managed and consequently made BMW a shedton of money. There's nothing the MINIs size that sells for anywhere near its price in any numbers.
Yes, packaaging. the 500 was small inside and out. the 2CV was much bigger but not much bigger inside and had to use an air-cooled longitudinal twin. I agree the R4 was a better package but had no style.The BMW Mini while not revolutionary in an engineering sense persuaded Americans and Asian markets to pay premium prices for a small car, something previously thought impossible. In the US, small = cheap = uncool. Especially if the small car is a hatchback. MINI changed that in a way the Golf and other small cars never managed and consequently made BMW a shedton of money. There's nothing the MINIs size that sells for anywhere near its price in any numbers.
I think your whole second paragraph ignores the Beetle which sold in millions in the US for a not particularly cheap price. It sold because it looked cute, just like the original Mini. It's the reason VW have had two further generations of Beetles, largely for the US market.
Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 26th November 16:28
campaj1 said:
It's important to remember that the 'supermini' class just didnt exist back then though: the only credible alternative (at least to begin with) was probably the Hillman Imp.
campaj1 said:
Re the new car, surely BMW's home-grown 1 series makes an even better crack at your affordable sporting 2+2 idea for the price of a middling spec MINI?
That's the next size up. - I think of the Mini as the "0.5 Series". Besides, the R56 is fun even in 120 BHP Cooper flavour. - A 120 BHP 1-Series, if we're honest, is something that's bought mainly for the propeller badge. In the first generation car, the 4-cylinder petrols weren't worth buying IMO. I'd love a 130i LE though. 
The Mini really built on the Fiat 500/600/Multipla so was unique but a development of those 3 concepts, all of which were rear-engined.
The Mini came along in 1959, the Imp was later and never lose sight of the fact that Ford couldn't make a Mini and sell it at a profit (maintaining that BMC made a loss on all their Minis)so made a Mk 1 Cortina as rival for it, for the same price, with a profit.
Renault were making the R4 and R6 what we know now as a "supermini" was already in existence as the Austin A40/Countryman.
Back then, of course, people wanted not only saloons but big saloons to accommodate the baby boomers.
My father had Zephyrs and would no more buy a Mini as a handbag.
The Mini came along in 1959, the Imp was later and never lose sight of the fact that Ford couldn't make a Mini and sell it at a profit (maintaining that BMC made a loss on all their Minis)so made a Mk 1 Cortina as rival for it, for the same price, with a profit.
Renault were making the R4 and R6 what we know now as a "supermini" was already in existence as the Austin A40/Countryman.
Back then, of course, people wanted not only saloons but big saloons to accommodate the baby boomers.
My father had Zephyrs and would no more buy a Mini as a handbag.
They'll never get it as beautiful as they did with the R50 / R53 (the first shape of the BMW MINI) where they didn't pander to s
t about it being too firm a ride etc and also it didn't have to conform to even more crazy eu bureaucracy.
Also it's a crime that they closed the john cooper garage as the John Cooper Motorsport (not works) parts they produced made the mini perfect.
It's a shame the GP had cack wheels and those fake brake ducts (which actually could be connected with a plug and play part from John cooper Motorsport!)
t about it being too firm a ride etc and also it didn't have to conform to even more crazy eu bureaucracy.Also it's a crime that they closed the john cooper garage as the John Cooper Motorsport (not works) parts they produced made the mini perfect.
It's a shame the GP had cack wheels and those fake brake ducts (which actually could be connected with a plug and play part from John cooper Motorsport!)
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