Rear fog light and hogging middle lane!!
Discussion
GreigM said:
SLacKer said:
Make passing on either side legal. Problem solved.
Unfortunately not. I drive in the US a lot and all that happens is it seems to absolve people from having to change lane at all, so you end up spending miles and miles behind a "pack" of cars sitting side by side with their cruise control set with imperceptible differences in speed and no possibility of passing anything. Think of it like 3 lane elephant races where the elephants never pull in at the end of the manoeuvre. Its no substitution for lane discipline.
You can cover many miles dispatching numpties on whatever side takes your fancy. You just need to be extra careful that the lane you want isn't the lane someone else wants. That happened a couple of times, but as long as you're on the ball it's fine.
Judging by my recent commutes, the best way to avoid the numties driving aorund with thier foglights on is to drive in fog. I swear I've seen less foglights the last couple of mornings when it's been foggy than I do in light drizzle.
I did quite like Clarksons idea on thier old people car, of a fog light switch that isn't actually connected to anything
I did quite like Clarksons idea on thier old people car, of a fog light switch that isn't actually connected to anything
cpas said:
007 VXR said:
Really ?
How boring is life?
ok, should have beening doing 70pmh, but .... WTF, take out side lane, and move on with your life at the speed you like..
Flame suit on
Point is, good visibility apart from light rain (and dark), but surely this person should know better! If they are teaching new drivers, there's no hope at all!!
ked for using too many revs, have to shift into 5th asap Update to lane debate. Just got a reply from my mate who's a Traffic Car Officer on the M25. Question. Has he ever booked anyone for lane hogging? The answer is YES. Idiot doing 45mph for mile after mile, with a big crocodile of cars trying to overtake (with a few losing patience and undertaking). Charge was driving without due care and attention. He admits it's so epidemic now that they only respond to outrageous instances. He also adds that the result of bad lane discipline is the effective loss of 750 miles of motorway. I belielive the pass on either side solution was looked at by the powers that be, but the decission was no.
Edited by robinessex on Friday 8th March 09:36
billzeebub said:
007 VXR said:
billzeebub said:
007 VXR said:
billzeebub said:
I have heard examples of Instructors actively discouraging people from using the inside lane of a 3 lane carriageway, stating that its a crawler lane, only for HGVs etc
Sounds right to me.. why spend the time over taking lorrys every 5 min doing 56mph?t mate, when I have to move to lane 3 to overtake or get held up by some muppet sitting in lane 3. I really dont think there is much point trying to emphasise that to you if you cant see it already1. The best option is to move out in good time to lane 2, settle briefly before making a second, wholly separate manoeuvre into lane 3, pass the halfwit, then make your return to lane 1 smoothly once you have opened sufficient safe gap between you and the halfwit. Hope that your demonstration of superior driving skill and attitude results in the education of the halfwit.
2. Terrible attitude. Move into lane 2 as close to the miscreant's rear bumper as possible. Blast the horn, flash the high beams, drop a cog and roar past, back into lane 2 and brake test the MLM before powering away at twice the speed limit. Observed many times, usually by drivers who are equally unsuited to the responsibility of driving on shared highways as the MLM. I shall not descend to stereotyping here, but propellers and interlinked rings are often involved.
3. Unpalatable, but sometimes necessary to make progress, when, due to the existence of the MLM the weight of traffic in lane 3 would prevent you from safely moving into lane 3 yourself. Hang back from MLM in lane 1. Observe their behaviour, using sixth sense to establish whether they are ignorant, arrogant, lazy, stupid, or, in a combination of all four, updating their F
KING TWER STATUS, then gradually close the distance, being prepared to back it off if they suddenly wake from their driving induced coma. Once close enough to observe the driver, drop a gear, get past quickly (so as to avoid prolonged exposure to the danger of a sideswipe) then continue at your chosen velocity. This is NOT "undertaking" as such, as it falls under rule 268 as I read it........Highway Code - Rule #268
"Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
.......but it can sometimes provoke an unwanted response from the MLM, so I avoid doing it if I can.
It's all well and good claiming that you don't drive in lane 1 for any number of reasons, but whatever the reason you give, if it has no sound basis in safe driving and good roadcraft, then YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Every time a driver decides to stay to the right, when they could equally move across to the lane to their left, they effectively reduce the number of lanes on the carriageway by the number of lanes to their left. It's really as simple as that. Stay in lane 3 of a 4 lane carriageway, and you effectively reduce it to two available lanes. What is the point of the DfT or LA's building extra space on the roads to ease congestion when a large percentage of the halfwits with whom we share those roads take it upon themselves to reduce the left-most lanes to unusable ribbons of useless tarmac because they simply can't be bothered to drive properly. You wouldn't accept it if the authorities coned off lane 1 of the M25 for it's entire circuit simply because they felt like it, yet that is precisely what MLMs are effectively doing.
Oh, and just as an observation, some of the worst driving, both in terms of ability, and of attitude, that I have ever witnessed has been exhibited by the drivers of major name driving school cars, when they are being driven '1 up'.
To address the issue of fog lights, the problem often lies with the interpretation of the highway code's use of "seriously reduced visibility", but I am far more worried when I see some muppet driving in the gloom with defective lighting, or worse still, no lighting, than I am by the muppet who left their rear fogs on too long. At least if I can see the car ahead, I can take some form of affirmative action to either overtake or drop back a little.
Highway Code - Rule #236
"You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
Law = RVLR regs 25 & 27"
Link to the relevant Regulations in Part III of RVLRs here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/part/...
For those who can't be bothered with wading through the legalese:
(from regulation 27) Manner of use prohibited:
Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Here endeth the lesson.....
After many years of commuting round the M25 I got in to the admittedly bad habit of staying in lane 1 until there was something in lane 1 going slower than me, whereupon I would pull out and overtake it before returning to lane 1. On the face of this is sounds like exactly the right thing to do, however it usualy meant passing hundreds of cars who were sat in lanes 2 and 3 while I sailed through in the nearly empty lane 1.
RizzoTheRat said:
After many years of commuting round the M25 I got in to the admittedly bad habit of staying in lane 1 until there was something in lane 1 going slower than me, whereupon I would pull out and overtake it before returning to lane 1. On the face of this is sounds like exactly the right thing to do, however it usualy meant passing hundreds of cars who were sat in lanes 2 and 3 while I sailed through in the nearly empty lane 1.
Yes, this is what I tend to do all the time. My commute takes me on the two lane part of the M11, I sit in lane 1 doing 65-70 passing the nose to tail, constantly braking sheep in lane two.
You'd think we'd adopted European driving laws, it's ridiculous.
Its not uncommon to find someone defending a obvious knob, simply because they do the same thing - and hate being told they are wrong.
Highway code says to pull into the next inside lane when it is clear and after overtaking.
Theres nothin in there to say that people can just sit in the middle lane because they are a knob who thinks the world owes them more than the next guy.
And those same muppets then wonder why road rage is so common - just plain dumb.
Highway code says to pull into the next inside lane when it is clear and after overtaking.
Theres nothin in there to say that people can just sit in the middle lane because they are a knob who thinks the world owes them more than the next guy.
And those same muppets then wonder why road rage is so common - just plain dumb.
RizzoTheRat said:
After many years of commuting round the M25 I got in to the admittedly bad habit of staying in lane 1 until there was something in lane 1 going slower than me, whereupon I would pull out and overtake it before returning to lane 1. On the face of this is sounds like exactly the right thing to do, however it usualy meant passing hundreds of cars who were sat in lanes 2 and 3 while I sailed through in the nearly empty lane 1.
Exactly what I do, as long as you are not taking the piss with your speed the police wont even look in your direction. You are sitting in the correct lane and overtaking vehicles in that lane on the correct side, its when you move to the left to overtake a vehicle that you are breaking the rules.yellowjack said:
Every time a driver decides to stay to the right, when they could equally move across to the lane to their left, they effectively reduce the number of lanes on the carriageway by the number of lanes to their left. It's really as simple as that. Stay in lane 3 of a 4 lane carriageway, and you effectively reduce it to two available lanes.
Got to ask, so going by the above if every one stays in lane 1 and 2, how many lanes are there being used ?yellowjack said:
(from regulation 27) Manner of use prohibited:
Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Here endeth the lesson.....
I was arguing with the missus about this.Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Here endeth the lesson.....
I was whinging about front fogs, and she said they weren't illegal, because typically they aren't high intensity lights like the rears are.
What constitutes a 'front fog lamp'? i.e. what stops the user claiming they are just 'driving lights', whatever they are?
trashbat said:
yellowjack said:
(from regulation 27) Manner of use prohibited:
Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Here endeth the lesson.....
I was arguing with the missus about this.Front fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Rear fog lamp
(a)Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to the driver of a following vehicle.
(b)Used so as to be lit at any time other than in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
(c)Save in the case of an emergency vehicle, used so as to be lit when a vehicle is parked.
Here endeth the lesson.....
I was whinging about front fogs, and she said they weren't illegal, because typically they aren't high intensity lights like the rears are.
What constitutes a 'front fog lamp'? i.e. what stops the user claiming they are just 'driving lights', whatever they are?
robinessex said:
Update to lane debate. Just got a reply from my mate who's a Traffic Car Officer on the M25. Question. Has he ever booked anyone for lane hogging? The answer is YES. Idiot doing 45mph for mile after mile, with a big crocodile of cars trying to overtake (with a few losing patience and undertaking). Charge was driving without due care and attention.
Good job. 45mph 
vixen1700 said:
007 VXR said:
Got to ask, so going by the above if every one stays in lane 1 and 2, how many lanes are there being used ?
All three can be used. Something I've noticed a lot outside of peak times is a car joining an M-way ahead of me. No problem with that. BUT. Lane 1 is empty for a good distance ahead, yet the twunt ahead leaves the on-slip, straight into lane 2 or lane 3, then stays there. Stronger driving test and a major retraining programme are the only things that will solve this problem, neither of which is ever likely to happen.
yellowjack said:
Stronger driving test and a major retraining programme are the only things that will solve this problem, neither of which is ever likely to happen.
I'd say prime-time TV education, constant radio talk about it, sub-liminal advertising over a 3 month period, then summary execution of offenders if they continue on their MLMness.Firm but fair.
robinessex said:
Update to lane debate. Just got a reply from my mate who's a Traffic Car Officer on the M25. Question. Has he ever booked anyone for lane hogging? The answer is YES. Idiot doing 45mph for mile after mile, with a big crocodile of cars trying to overtake (with a few losing patience and undertaking). Charge was driving without due care and attention. He admits it's so epidemic now that they only respond to outrageous instances. He also adds that the result of bad lane discipline is the effective loss of 750 miles of motorway. I belielive the pass on either side solution was looked at by the powers that be, but the decission was no.
I was doing about 85 late at night coming back on the M25 when by about the 5th person i saw sitting in the middle lane i got fed up and undertook him (or her). Very shortly after i saw a flash of blue lights and had a police car pull alongside me. He gave me the signal through the window to slow / calm it down a bit and then drove off. Which was nice. might have had something to do with driving my dads old man car and all 4 us of (including my parents in the back) attired in black tie dress... 
vixen1700 said:
I'd say prime-time TV education, constant radio talk about it, sub-liminal advertising over a 3 month period, then summary execution of offenders if they continue on their MLMness.
Firm but fair.
Otherwise use the motorway matrix signs for something useful.Firm but fair.
Default setting should say "stay left unless overtaking".
I don't see the problem in that.
Last week I saw "pick up your litter, other people do". What kind of
phrase is that? What's wrong with "please do not litter" or words to that effect. Are we being accused of guilt by default now? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff