Council Bankrupt/****ing money up a tree - Parking Ticket

[anonymous-user]

Pothole said:

Excellent idea; punish local small business owners who have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Really? I sometimes wonder how some PHers manage to tie their own shoes let alone work a computer to post such drivel.

I am able to tie my own laces. And work a computer. Rubbish council persecuting minor discretions? I'd take my custom elsewhere. It makes me happy. Perhaps a bit childish - Don't get mad get even!

[Boosted LS1]

It's all about finance. Councils rake in millions from the motorist, an easy touch unknowing about the CEO's . The original police yellow banded traffic warden was more concerned about traffic flow. When did you last see a real traffic warden? I just see the scummmy jobsworths that failed a morrisons interview.

[StottyEvo]

budfox said:

This issue of course is the size of the fine, and that is genuinely ridiculous.

Fines should be for no more than double the cost of the equivalent parking fee.

How they can charge £2 for an hour parking then £25 for overstaying by a couple of minutes is beyond me too. Why does the value of the parking space suddenly jump through the roof?

Similarly with mobile phone contracts etc... 500mins, 1000txts £10/month, you send a text over your allowance and they cost 15p each rightio

[Blakewater]

Jimboka said:

Pothole said:

Excellent idea; punish local small business owners who have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Really? I sometimes wonder how some PHers manage to tie their own shoes let alone work a computer to post such drivel.

I am able to tie my own laces. And work a computer. Rubbish council persecuting minor discretions? I'd take my custom elsewhere. It makes me happy. Perhaps a bit childish - Don't get mad get even!

The problem is though, people will go to other towns or out of town stores if they're forever being booked when shopping in a particular place. It's not because they want to take their frustrations out on local businesses, they're just defending themselves. Many small businesses in town centres do complain to councils about over zealous parking enforcement. The store I used to work at had a collect by car facility and the traffic wardens used to hang around the back of the store waiting to book people who stopped on the yellow lines. They'd often direct people who weren't our customers to park on our loading bay while they went to the newsagent or the takeaways and then book our customers who couldn't get on there.

One day a delivery driver couldn't get his lorry into the loading bay for some trolleys in there. While we were moving the trolleys a load of traffic wardens appeared and booked the lorry driver and a load of customers who were sitting in their cars in the middle of the road waiting to get onto the loading bay. They weren't even really parked. I told one regular customer, an old lady who's husband had Alzheimer's, to contest the ticket but she just paid because she couldn't deal with the stress of taking it further.

When traffic wardens are booking people who are dealing with dying mothers and the constant ongoing pressure of being hounded everyday when parking outside their own houses, they are going to get shouted at. It might not be right when subjected to cool, calm logic from your armchair behind your computer screen but, when people are already dealing with a lot of stress and they get a parking ticket from someone trying to disassociate herself from what she's doing because she's only doing her job, and who refuses to listen or show a bit of humanity and discretion, it might just be what pushes them over the edge and brings on an outburst of emotion. I appreciate traffic wardens have their own issues to deal with and targets to meet and they may not personally believe it's moral for the councils to have them operate that way, but you can hardly blame the drivers for getting angry in the heat of the moment.

[Pothole]

Jimboka said:

Pothole said:

Excellent idea; punish local small business owners who have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Really? I sometimes wonder how some PHers manage to tie their own shoes let alone work a computer to post such drivel.

I am able to tie my own laces. And work a computer. Rubbish council persecuting minor discretions? I'd take my custom elsewhere. It makes me happy. Perhaps a bit childish - Don't get mad get even!

Get even with WHOM? How has the local business which is affected by your shopping elsewhere to blame for the parking issues? Utter moronitude.

[iSore]

Blakewater said:

When traffic wardens are booking people who are dealing with dying mothers and the constant ongoing pressure of being hounded everyday when parking outside their own houses, they are going to get shouted at. It might not be right when subjected to cool, calm logic from your armchair behind your computer screen but, when people are already dealing with a lot of stress and they get a parking ticket from someone trying to disassociate herself from what she's doing because she's only doing her job, and who refuses to listen or show a bit of humanity and discretion, it might just be what pushes them over the edge and brings on an outburst of emotion. I appreciate traffic wardens have their own issues to deal with and targets to meet and they may not personally believe it's moral for the councils to have them operate that way, but you can hardly blame the drivers for getting angry in the heat of the moment.

Indeed.

[Pothole]

iSore said:

Blakewater said:

When traffic wardens are booking people who are dealing with dying mothers and the constant ongoing pressure of being hounded everyday when parking outside their own houses, they are going to get shouted at. It might not be right when subjected to cool, calm logic from your armchair behind your computer screen but, when people are already dealing with a lot of stress and they get a parking ticket from someone trying to disassociate herself from what she's doing because she's only doing her job, and who refuses to listen or show a bit of humanity and discretion, it might just be what pushes them over the edge and brings on an outburst of emotion. I appreciate traffic wardens have their own issues to deal with and targets to meet and they may not personally believe it's moral for the councils to have them operate that way, but you can hardly blame the drivers for getting angry in the heat of the moment.

Indeed.

WTF has parking outside your own house got to do with anything?

[Blakewater]

Pothole said:

iSore said:

Blakewater said:

When traffic wardens are booking people who are dealing with dying mothers and the constant ongoing pressure of being hounded everyday when parking outside their own houses, they are going to get shouted at. It might not be right when subjected to cool, calm logic from your armchair behind your computer screen but, when people are already dealing with a lot of stress and they get a parking ticket from someone trying to disassociate herself from what she's doing because she's only doing her job, and who refuses to listen or show a bit of humanity and discretion, it might just be what pushes them over the edge and brings on an outburst of emotion. I appreciate traffic wardens have their own issues to deal with and targets to meet and they may not personally believe it's moral for the councils to have them operate that way, but you can hardly blame the drivers for getting angry in the heat of the moment.

Indeed.

WTF has parking outside your own house got to do with anything?

In iSore's case the parking permit area where the traffic wardens were booking people was outside houses, his house and the house of the dying lady who's daughter was getting booked as she was picking her up.

[Burwood]

Pothole said:

iSore said:

Blakewater said:

When traffic wardens are booking people who are dealing with dying mothers and the constant ongoing pressure of being hounded everyday when parking outside their own houses, they are going to get shouted at. It might not be right when subjected to cool, calm logic from your armchair behind your computer screen but, when people are already dealing with a lot of stress and they get a parking ticket from someone trying to disassociate herself from what she's doing because she's only doing her job, and who refuses to listen or show a bit of humanity and discretion, it might just be what pushes them over the edge and brings on an outburst of emotion. I appreciate traffic wardens have their own issues to deal with and targets to meet and they may not personally believe it's moral for the councils to have them operate that way, but you can hardly blame the drivers for getting angry in the heat of the moment.

Indeed.

WTF has parking outside your own house got to do with anything?

Err lots actually. I lived in W8. The council would not give me a residents permit because they were full on quota. At 7am the scum were handing out tickets, actually clamping back then every day even Sundays. My neighbour paid 1500 a month in tickets. He may well be daft but it's robbery.

[iSore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No9GfIF01Rc

[Ares]

Issi said:

If he was, I bet you a pound that he was 'ONLY' a couple of minutes late.

One. You can send the pound to the Royal Manchester Children's Hospital. Thank you. ;-)

[Ares]

Pothole said:

Ares said:

I got a parking ticket last year. Filled in, issued, stuck to windscreen and 'yellow-striped-parking-vulture' scarpered all within 1 minute of the expiration time.

Now this was £50 (£25 if paid in 14 days). I could have just paid, but it got my goat...the warden had clearly filled the ticket in ahead of time (or had dicky/fiddled with equipment).


I contested the ticket. It was rejected.

I asked for proof of calibration. They refused.

I appealed. It was rejected.

I contacted the (left-leaning) Council CEO who confirmed the ticket stood, as they only have to give THREE minutes grace.

I pointed out they gave out one. They ignored me.

They sent me an NTO threatening legal action. I asked to be referred to the courts.

I got a tribunal notification. I asked for the case to be heard with all parties present (tribunal fortuitously happens to be less than a mile from my house).

They accepted.

I was asked for my 'case' - I sent one photograph and a 250 word/half page letter detail the facts.



......I then got the council's defence. A 127 page dossier, duplicated, detailing every possible map/street plan/picture/etc (but no calibration proof). The postage alone came to over £12.


All this in a case than is indefensible for them, given the three minutes/one minute admission.


The same council is claiming financial difficulties and blaming 'government cuts'.... I suspect something else may be wasting money. Thank got it's not my council.


Rant Over....

Why are you wasting every other council tax payer's money? Pay the ticket you thief!

Thief?

[Ares]

Zyp said:

I think the OP's point is that there's a 3 minute grace period but the PCN was timed just 1 minute after expiry.

I think some of you are being a little harsh on him.

We should know that 99.9% of PH'ers are all 100% legal, never break the law, never breach morality. They are like Mother Theresa in string-backed driving gloves.

[Ares]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Calibration of what?

The (time/timing on) equipment of the ticket issuing machine/PDA. I got there one minute after expiration (my bad...although mitigating circumstances). In that minute he completed, printed, issued and the ticket was there, in sealed bag stuck to my windscreen, all photos taken, and the warden/officer was half a dozen cars down the road.

Either he is quicker than Ernie, the fastest milkman in the West.....or something is hooky.

[Ares]

poing said:

So I assume your watch is synchronised to the local parking ticket people (not even going to guess what they are officially called this week) and checked daily? It was 1 minute over on that persons watch, but what if it was 1 minute under on your watch?

This is why there is a 3 minute margin. I think this is being increased by some councils to 10 minutes.

10 minutes is now law, as of midnight last Sunday.

[Ares]

Issi said:

PHmember said:

Issi said:

You know when the sign states 'parking limited for 1hr only'? Do you think it means 1hr only or 1hr and a few minutes?

Do you think the OP deliberately took ONE MINUTE extra just to be awkward? Prat.

Do you HONESTLY believe that he was only 60 seconds late? Gullible.

Why do you HONESTLY think I wasn't?

And do you HONESTLY think the CAPITALS strengthen your argument?

THEY DON'T ;-)

[Ares]

Twin2 said:

From what I've read, the ticket was issued 1 minute after the time had run out?

But when did OP actually return? If he's been there 1 minute after the warden would be around to give him the grace...

I did and he was. He even gave me the email address to appeal along with the helpful tips that he was 'only doing his job' and that we can't 'decide what laws to follow'.

[Ares]

OpulentBob said:

charltjr said:

Yep, I've found myself doing that.

I've been ticketed in that situation too.

I thought "bks, fair enough though, I'm the one who went over the time limit" and paid it.

Clearly I should have pissed many hours of my time and other people's time up the wall because it's so unfair. I wish I wasn't so weak.

+1

Was it a minute late according to your watch, or the ticket machine?

Personally, I think late is late, and if you know you're late - and, crucially, you weren't aware of the 3 minute grace period until AFTER you'd appealed, moaned, and then gone to the CEO of the Council (I bet you used the "I'll go to your boss" line on the parking officer?) - and you still carry on, then you can't complain about the costs. You instigated the appeal after you were caught overstaying your parking. The 3 minute grace thing didn't become apparant until after you'd started the appeal, if I'm reading it right, so your argument that you were within time is wrong.

(You = OP, obv)

My original argument was that the ticket had clearly been issued before expiration. In the one minute that had passed, he couldn't possibly have completed all the details, taken the photos, issued the tickets and walking half-a-dozen car lengths.

I could see my car for best part of a minute before reaching it and he wasn't there.

[Ares]

daveinhampshire said:

In this case the OP was late, one minute is still over time, I'd have personally paid it than go through all that crap. Grace periods are discretionary, even if the council doesn't abide by them the ticket being out of time is undeniable.

But in this case it was.

You will know that you couldn't possibly have completed everything required within 60 seconds max. Either the equipment was hooky, or he was.

[Pothole]

Ares said:

OpulentBob said:

charltjr said:

Yep, I've found myself doing that.

I've been ticketed in that situation too.

I thought "bks, fair enough though, I'm the one who went over the time limit" and paid it.

Clearly I should have pissed many hours of my time and other people's time up the wall because it's so unfair. I wish I wasn't so weak.

+1

Was it a minute late according to your watch, or the ticket machine?

Personally, I think late is late, and if you know you're late - and, crucially, you weren't aware of the 3 minute grace period until AFTER you'd appealed, moaned, and then gone to the CEO of the Council (I bet you used the "I'll go to your boss" line on the parking officer?) - and you still carry on, then you can't complain about the costs. You instigated the appeal after you were caught overstaying your parking. The 3 minute grace thing didn't become apparant until after you'd started the appeal, if I'm reading it right, so your argument that you were within time is wrong.

(You = OP, obv)

My original argument was that the ticket had clearly been issued before expiration. In the one minute that had passed, he couldn't possibly have completed all the details, taken the photos, issued the tickets and walking half-a-dozen car lengths.

I could see my car for best part of a minute before reaching it and he wasn't there.

Your original argument on here was that the council wasted a load of money dealing with your complaint. They provided a full and complete response as far as they see it, running to 127 pages. (Really? I call custard test as you surely wouldn't have thrown that away, would you?)

I'm sure it's been raised but there is no such thing as absolute time. If the warden's watch is a bit fast, the parking ticket machine a bit out of sync with your watch, a mistake can easily occur. I don't know where you've got the idea that a warden has to wait until the time has expired before starting to write a ticket because I don't think that's ever been the case.