RE: Could you buy a BMW i3?
Discussion
A Scotsman said:
If it was £7,000 I'd consider it... but £25,000 - forget it.. It's just far too expensive for what it is.
You're right, theres nothing to it. You could always ask a composite materials engineer to make you one on the cheap? You could rent an auto clave at a university to keep costs below £7,000 and get the lower tech (bulkier,heavier) batteries from a chinese ebayerEdited by oilspill on Tuesday 30th July 15:15
oilspill said:
Technomatt said:
Yet another expensive EV crowding out a niche market with minimal demand whilst trying to portray a highbrow culture of environmental advantages while the technology, costs and whole life emissions are still not viable.
Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
How about the reality that if this had an archaic V8 engine in it with slightly sportier looks, phrs would be camping out to get in the queue and be prepared to pay twice as much just for bragging rights of the carbon body.Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
Now to answer the actual thread question:
No I couldnt.
My daily commute is 96 miles which would mean I need the range extender one, but even then, living in a flat I have no access to a charging point which would still be needed every couple of days.
There is a charging station being built fairly near me in Glasgow but the inconvenience of a whole extra journey and half an hour stop over for charging [even supercharging stations dont really do it in minutes] is a bit too much to go through 3-4 times a week.
As an only car scenario it also just doesnt have the range I would need and since I dont have a congestion charge to offset the cost of ownership against, it doesnt stack up running 2 cars against a single 50mpg diesel.
Its a step in the right direction, if the i8 has longer range and £10k more on the pricetag the above may get overtaken with man-maths.
No I couldnt.
My daily commute is 96 miles which would mean I need the range extender one, but even then, living in a flat I have no access to a charging point which would still be needed every couple of days.
There is a charging station being built fairly near me in Glasgow but the inconvenience of a whole extra journey and half an hour stop over for charging [even supercharging stations dont really do it in minutes] is a bit too much to go through 3-4 times a week.
As an only car scenario it also just doesnt have the range I would need and since I dont have a congestion charge to offset the cost of ownership against, it doesnt stack up running 2 cars against a single 50mpg diesel.
Its a step in the right direction, if the i8 has longer range and £10k more on the pricetag the above may get overtaken with man-maths.
I'd be charging it every single day just to get to work and back using the one that runs purely on batteries.
Then if there was a diversion or traffic problem I'd be f
ked. Or if I was tired and forgot to plug it in overnight. 
Ranger extender sounds better, but for the extra cost per month? That is ridiculous...
Then if there was a diversion or traffic problem I'd be f
ked. Or if I was tired and forgot to plug it in overnight. Ranger extender sounds better, but for the extra cost per month? That is ridiculous...
emicen said:
oilspill said:
Technomatt said:
Yet another expensive EV crowding out a niche market with minimal demand whilst trying to portray a highbrow culture of environmental advantages while the technology, costs and whole life emissions are still not viable.
Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
How about the reality that if this had an archaic V8 engine in it with slightly sportier looks, phrs would be camping out to get in the queue and be prepared to pay twice as much just for bragging rights of the carbon body.Nissan/Renault has already learnt the hard way with pure EVs with huge R+D costs for minimal sales.
Whilst BMW may have a slight edge with a (limited) range extender, the constant arrogant, saving the planet, we must embrace a new future, you just need to appreciate the technology approach surrounding these supposedly ‘green’ but expensive and immature EV technologies is painful to witness.
Cue a load discussion about the merits and ‘I would seriously consider one’, ‘it would be ideal for me on my commute’, ‘I like the idea’, ‘it’s the future’, ‘peak oil blah (..myth)’ ...... but of course, only a miniscule percentage of people will ever commit and buy one. Reality.
Some simple numbers, EVs account for 0.02% of world vehicle sales. That means 99.98% of buyers generally opt for ICEs.
Why? Because until EVs provide both economic and significant lifestyle advantages to the mass market of consumers they will stay away.
McWigglebum4th said:
Once you can tell me how they know if the extra electricity is being used to power a car or the heating then its a posible solution
Easy once the mandatory smart meters are rolled out (the UK being about the only EU country aiming for 100% coverage, if they can ever stop dilly-dallying around with the spec). The car's request for electricity includes a 'use for private transport' flag and the meter provides the electricity based on a suitable tariff. The transport tariff could be selected on the urgency of the request - for example a lower tariff if the charging can be deferred to a lower load period, whereas an urgent request would qualify for a premium tariff.I guess you could plug into a standard 13-amp socket, denature the comms layer so the car looked like a basic dumb heater and recharge over a couple of days. But that would be like running on red diesel, and HMRC would take a (planet-friendly eco bulb) dim view when they found out (probably from the car's service or MoT log).
smilo996 said:
When I was at school I used to be taken to school in a variety of cars. "The school run". Hillman Imp, 6 in a 240z, Granada's and Mk 1 Cortina amongst others.
Since then cars have developed in som many different directions and the level of technical innovation has been impressive.
However why is it that car companies, almost to a man, insist on making affordable Electric cars ugly. This one included. They have some this since the first cars, Sinclair C5, GM EV1, Prius etc. BMW you would expect the buck the trend but the myopia continues. Sad because it masks the trully incredible innovation that has taken place sine the days of the Cortina and 3 geared lurchy Granda.
At the luxury end some companies have been able to make achinignly beautiful cars, like Fisker or Tesla and Hybrids like the CX-75.
Come on we are not stuck in a 1970's Jerry Anderson sci-fi series.
To me the elephant in the room is the weight. The hillman imp you mention was not considered the same as a mini. It was considered a decent sized small car.Since then cars have developed in som many different directions and the level of technical innovation has been impressive.
However why is it that car companies, almost to a man, insist on making affordable Electric cars ugly. This one included. They have some this since the first cars, Sinclair C5, GM EV1, Prius etc. BMW you would expect the buck the trend but the myopia continues. Sad because it masks the trully incredible innovation that has taken place sine the days of the Cortina and 3 geared lurchy Granda.
At the luxury end some companies have been able to make achinignly beautiful cars, like Fisker or Tesla and Hybrids like the CX-75.
Come on we are not stuck in a 1970's Jerry Anderson sci-fi series.
Despite that, if I remember rightly the hillman imp was about 750kg all up.
I'm not quite sure what the obsession with new cars being twice the weight and size of their older counterparts but it makes the idea of green driving a bit....well....retarded.
This actually quite interests me. My commute (50 mile round trip) fits into the bracket nicely. Wouldn't be too far off a straight swap for my current commuter purchase wise.
Only questions would be around longevity of the battery. And as part of that if they'll only lease you one of these as opposed to let you buy one outright. I presume that's deep in the bowels of the bmw site somewhere?
It would also not have to drive like a small car and feel ok at motorway speeds. I suspect that it will be fine in this regard given it must have a fair weight in batteries inside it.
Only questions would be around longevity of the battery. And as part of that if they'll only lease you one of these as opposed to let you buy one outright. I presume that's deep in the bowels of the bmw site somewhere?
It would also not have to drive like a small car and feel ok at motorway speeds. I suspect that it will be fine in this regard given it must have a fair weight in batteries inside it.
Oh, and to answer the original question. Yes.
But surely the actual question to ask is "Would you buy a BMW i3?". That would take some additional consideration - certainly the majority of my transport needs are covered within the range. Charging without a private drive is the fly in the soup though the local supermarket has several (always empty) charging bays. So probably 'No', but not 'Never'.
But surely the actual question to ask is "Would you buy a BMW i3?". That would take some additional consideration - certainly the majority of my transport needs are covered within the range. Charging without a private drive is the fly in the soup though the local supermarket has several (always empty) charging bays. So probably 'No', but not 'Never'.
Edited by sad61t on Tuesday 30th July 15:42
I'd be happy with this but it's not overly clear on the details of the range extender.
For a start is it petrol or diesel? And if I run out of electricity and fuel and put more fuel in can I then continue to drive and fill up again when the charge and fuel runs out (like er... a car?)
For a start is it petrol or diesel? And if I run out of electricity and fuel and put more fuel in can I then continue to drive and fill up again when the charge and fuel runs out (like er... a car?)
exceed said:
And if I run out of electricity and fuel and put more fuel in can I then continue to drive and fill up again when the charge and fuel runs out (like er... a car?)
I suspect the answer is "yes" witht he proviso that if you actually run out of petrol and then keep going until the battery dies, you might have to run the generator for a bit before you can drive.When was the last time you ran out of petrol, though?
Interesting comments. These small electric cars all seem to be hyped up as 'city' cars. By and large the majority of people crammed into the larger cities are never going to be able to actually charge the damn thing. It seems more for people traveling a short distance into the city every day. Leasing one is the only real option as far as I can see. Buying one will leave you at the mercy of Paddy Pants Down at your local dealership come selling time if the market for them isn't there. If you buy second hand you could be facing a wallet destroying amount of cash if the batteries fail and need replacing! All the car firms seem to keep that possible scenario very much off the brochure. With battery packs estimated to have a 'real world' life span of 5-7 years buying second hand could be a dangerous game.
I live in a rural area, I could park it right next to the house so no charging worries, I work from home,my longest journey during the week is about a 30 mile round trip with the average being a 5 mile round trip to the shops and back. On that basis this is the first electric car I would seriously consider. Perhaps I've been suckered in by the whole 'Cool BMW' angle to it but I reckon until I've actually owned an electric car its difficult to really have a definitive view on them. It may work out great or I may find it the worst car owning experience ever! Is £350 a month too high a price to find out? Mmmmm, not too sure yet!
This may be the stepping stone until we get hydrogen cars so if the leasing terms aren't too harsh I may well have a closer look at the i3.
I live in a rural area, I could park it right next to the house so no charging worries, I work from home,my longest journey during the week is about a 30 mile round trip with the average being a 5 mile round trip to the shops and back. On that basis this is the first electric car I would seriously consider. Perhaps I've been suckered in by the whole 'Cool BMW' angle to it but I reckon until I've actually owned an electric car its difficult to really have a definitive view on them. It may work out great or I may find it the worst car owning experience ever! Is £350 a month too high a price to find out? Mmmmm, not too sure yet!
This may be the stepping stone until we get hydrogen cars so if the leasing terms aren't too harsh I may well have a closer look at the i3.
I still can't see what these cars are achieving though I am all for the concept and an i8 would be most welcome.
Yes it'd be cheaper to run but the RRP is eye watering and does it really save the planet as opposed to fossil fuels? No doubt fossil fuels are being burnt near Runcorn to allow me to charge it in the first place, so there goes my 'eco-awareness'.
Nothing wrong whatsoever with the ideas and maybe the revolution we crave is actually a mixture of petrol/diesel/electric/hydrogen/others?
Yes it'd be cheaper to run but the RRP is eye watering and does it really save the planet as opposed to fossil fuels? No doubt fossil fuels are being burnt near Runcorn to allow me to charge it in the first place, so there goes my 'eco-awareness'.
Nothing wrong whatsoever with the ideas and maybe the revolution we crave is actually a mixture of petrol/diesel/electric/hydrogen/others?
siony1974 said:
Interesting comments. These small electric cars all seem to be hyped up as 'city' cars. By and large the majority of people crammed into the larger cities are never going to be able to actually charge the damn thing. It seems more for people traveling a short distance into the city every day. Leasing one is the only real option as far as I can see. Buying one will leave you at the mercy of Paddy Pants Down at your local dealership come selling time if the market for them isn't there. If you buy second hand you could be facing a wallet destroying amount of cash if the batteries fail and need replacing! All the car firms seem to keep that possible scenario very much off the brochure. With battery packs estimated to have a 'real world' life span of 5-7 years buying second hand could be a dangerous game.
I live in a rural area, I could park it right next to the house so no charging worries, I work from home,my longest journey during the week is about a 30 mile round trip with the average being a 5 mile round trip to the shops and back. On that basis this is the first electric car I would seriously consider. Perhaps I've been suckered in by the whole 'Cool BMW' angle to it but I reckon until I've actually owned an electric car its difficult to really have a definitive view on them. It may work out great or I may find it the worst car owning experience ever! Is £350 a month too high a price to find out? Mmmmm, not too sure yet!
This may be the stepping stone until we get hydrogen cars so if the leasing terms aren't too harsh I may well have a closer look at the i3.
If the battery packs only last 5-7 years why do BMW warranty them for 8 years/100,000 miles and state that they are designed to last the life of the car?I live in a rural area, I could park it right next to the house so no charging worries, I work from home,my longest journey during the week is about a 30 mile round trip with the average being a 5 mile round trip to the shops and back. On that basis this is the first electric car I would seriously consider. Perhaps I've been suckered in by the whole 'Cool BMW' angle to it but I reckon until I've actually owned an electric car its difficult to really have a definitive view on them. It may work out great or I may find it the worst car owning experience ever! Is £350 a month too high a price to find out? Mmmmm, not too sure yet!
This may be the stepping stone until we get hydrogen cars so if the leasing terms aren't too harsh I may well have a closer look at the i3.
Why is this the first electric car you would consider when both the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe would comfortably fit your needs? - they have the same or slightly longer range than the BMW
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