RE: BMW M4 CS | Spotted
Discussion
llcoolmac said:
I love that the logic of people arguing with me on this is "well people want to do it" or "lots of people do it" as if that somehow diminishes the fact that what the vast majority of people on PCP deals do is idiotic.
Yes, believe it or not buying car and paying all of the depreciation for three years while putting very little mileage on it is a totally financially idiotic decision. You may have decided you are fine with that but there is plenty of research out there to suggest that most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them when you take into account all of the other things that you will be paying for in your life.
If you are cool with that then fine, but it doesn't lessen the stupidity of your financial imprudence. It's their money and there is a very good reason most people have way less money than they should have by the time they hit retirement or even middle age.
Good article on it here for anyone who has an interest in it.
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/millions-motoris...
Just stop. You're absolutely mental.Yes, believe it or not buying car and paying all of the depreciation for three years while putting very little mileage on it is a totally financially idiotic decision. You may have decided you are fine with that but there is plenty of research out there to suggest that most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them when you take into account all of the other things that you will be paying for in your life.
If you are cool with that then fine, but it doesn't lessen the stupidity of your financial imprudence. It's their money and there is a very good reason most people have way less money than they should have by the time they hit retirement or even middle age.
Good article on it here for anyone who has an interest in it.
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/millions-motoris...
Edited by llcoolmac on Monday 27th January 23:22
ETA your very own link notes that of the 23% (8.7m) of motorists using PCP, 28% (2.4m) report being trapped. Of those, 60% (<1.5m) say they can't afford to end the agreement early. Which, in addition to not necessarily being linked to affordability in relation the ongoing monthlies, entirely undermines your statement that 'most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them'.
Edited by iphonedyou on Tuesday 28th January 13:21
Having been through F80M3 and F82M4 CS "ownership" via PCP, HP and purchase it all boils down to the car you want and what are you willing / able to sacrifice to pay for it.
The M3 wasn't actually on my shortlist of cars at the time as I had narrowed my shortlist down to either a run out version of the F10 M5 or the newly released RS6 in 2016.
March 2016 - I was on the way to sign the paperwork for the RS6 even though I preferred the M5 which felt a much more connected drivers car. Having been driving an F10 Touring for the previous 3 years it didn't feel "new" enough and I knew with the new M5 being due out around 15 months later I would probably end up wanting to change sooner.
Deciding I wasn't brave enough to get a new car without the wife at least seeing / sitting in one, I took her with me and on the way she drove my 5 series touring for the first time and pointed out that she didn't understand why, if I wanted a sports car would I buy another big, black estate car which wouldn't ever really be suitable for track days due to the weight and costs of consumables.
To cut the story short we ended up in the BMW dealer next door to the Audi dealer and they had a brand new M3 with individual paint and every option ticked in the new car showroom which was like a magnet for everyone going into the dealer. She promptly walked straight up to it, opened the back door got in and said why don't you buy this one, it is big enough for the kids in the back and we did the deal that day.
(I still think Atlantis Blue is the best colour I have seen on an M3)
In the end I got a brand new M3 on PCP which based on the spec worked out more expensive per month than either the M5 or RS6 as £12k of options doesn't really make that much of a difference to the GFV and the APR's were different for all of the cars from interest free on the M5 to 4.9% on the M3 with the RS6 somewhere in between as well as massively different levels of support from the manufacturer and their in house finance arms. From memory there was nearly £20k contribution from BMW and BMW Finance on the M5 along with 0%.
October 2018, I traded the car in at 30 months old and 37k miles 6 months before the PCP term was up which meant a total cost of ownership of around £30k excluding road tax, insurance, tyres and petrol.
I had planned on keeping the M3 for 4 - 5 yrs but ended up spending too long hanging around dealerships looking at cars with / for a friend and man maths took over. Whilst I had originally intended on keeping the M3 longer it was difficult getting my head around paying £27k to stay in the same car at the end of the 36 month term along with a realisation that at the end of term there was not a great deal of equity in the car.
My best guess is the M4 CS I bought had been purchased by the dealer, registered and stored as I think they saw the potential for these to go for overs at some point in the future given the strength of the M4 GTS market at the time (wow how that has changed...) Obviously the demand they had hoped for wasn't there.
I had seen the car a couple of months earlier in the used car side of the dealership and really liked it but laughed out loud at the price and wondered what kind of idiot would pay £99k for a 4 series which is what the car was at list with the extras, at the time I think they had it up for £79,995.
I eventually did the deal at £70k for the car with 12 miles on the clock hoping that the most savage period of depreciation had passed and decided that HP was a better route to go as I would "own" more of the car at all stages, pay less interest etc but as a result put a much bigger deposit in to keep the monthlies in line with those from the M3.
In the end, I decided to settle the HP after around 9 months as second hand car finance (6.9%) is still quite an expensive form of borrowing and shorter term I had maxed out pension contributions for the year (thanks to the pension contribution taper) and I felt equity markets were pretty much peaking and I was wary of buying in at the top.
So in reality I have used most of the different financing options to acquire these vehicles, in the case of the M3 paid more to have a cheaper car and based on my circumstances at the time have reached different conclusions each time as to the best way pay for it.
As it stands the CS now has 12k miles on it so based on this thread has probably dropped the thick end of £20k in 16 months which is more than I had hoped but not too alarming (plus the cost of BMW winter wheels and tyres as the thing was undriveable on the Cup 2's when conditions are cold and damp).
As a comparison, the M3 was a great daily driver and whilst I use the M4 CS daily it is a lot less practical but as a driving experience the 2 cars are very different in terms of feel, power delivery and the calibration of driver aids.
The CS on track is sensational in comparison to the M3 but I am not sure how much of that is as a combination the carbon ceramic brakes Cup 2 tyre set up vs the suspension and wheel set up tweaks specific to the CS.
FWIW there are brilliant offers available from manufacturers from time to time which invariably are either linked to taking finance in one shape or form or leasing and recently I have seen unbelievable deals on 840GC's, X3M's and X4M's and these can prove to be great value for money if they fit what you want / need / can afford.
As a note of caution, speaking to one of my BMW contacts last week, he was saying they had a lot of customers coming out of run of the mill 3 series who have got into new X3M's and X4M's because the initial payment and monthlies were so low / affordable.
Pretty much all of these have been done on 48 month PCP's which in reality leaves the punters under water on the car until around month 42 (you need to pay back 50% of the original value just to be able to hand the keys back) and they know that for many, the costs associated with running an M car, especially such a heavy one, means some people will realise they can't actually afford it too late taking into account the costs for tyres, servicing and a 17 mpg ish thirst for super unleaded.
6 months in people could be sat with anywhere up to £15k of negative equity in the vehicle by the time they get a reality check which will not be pleasant.
The M3 wasn't actually on my shortlist of cars at the time as I had narrowed my shortlist down to either a run out version of the F10 M5 or the newly released RS6 in 2016.
March 2016 - I was on the way to sign the paperwork for the RS6 even though I preferred the M5 which felt a much more connected drivers car. Having been driving an F10 Touring for the previous 3 years it didn't feel "new" enough and I knew with the new M5 being due out around 15 months later I would probably end up wanting to change sooner.
Deciding I wasn't brave enough to get a new car without the wife at least seeing / sitting in one, I took her with me and on the way she drove my 5 series touring for the first time and pointed out that she didn't understand why, if I wanted a sports car would I buy another big, black estate car which wouldn't ever really be suitable for track days due to the weight and costs of consumables.
To cut the story short we ended up in the BMW dealer next door to the Audi dealer and they had a brand new M3 with individual paint and every option ticked in the new car showroom which was like a magnet for everyone going into the dealer. She promptly walked straight up to it, opened the back door got in and said why don't you buy this one, it is big enough for the kids in the back and we did the deal that day.
(I still think Atlantis Blue is the best colour I have seen on an M3)
In the end I got a brand new M3 on PCP which based on the spec worked out more expensive per month than either the M5 or RS6 as £12k of options doesn't really make that much of a difference to the GFV and the APR's were different for all of the cars from interest free on the M5 to 4.9% on the M3 with the RS6 somewhere in between as well as massively different levels of support from the manufacturer and their in house finance arms. From memory there was nearly £20k contribution from BMW and BMW Finance on the M5 along with 0%.
October 2018, I traded the car in at 30 months old and 37k miles 6 months before the PCP term was up which meant a total cost of ownership of around £30k excluding road tax, insurance, tyres and petrol.
I had planned on keeping the M3 for 4 - 5 yrs but ended up spending too long hanging around dealerships looking at cars with / for a friend and man maths took over. Whilst I had originally intended on keeping the M3 longer it was difficult getting my head around paying £27k to stay in the same car at the end of the 36 month term along with a realisation that at the end of term there was not a great deal of equity in the car.
My best guess is the M4 CS I bought had been purchased by the dealer, registered and stored as I think they saw the potential for these to go for overs at some point in the future given the strength of the M4 GTS market at the time (wow how that has changed...) Obviously the demand they had hoped for wasn't there.
I had seen the car a couple of months earlier in the used car side of the dealership and really liked it but laughed out loud at the price and wondered what kind of idiot would pay £99k for a 4 series which is what the car was at list with the extras, at the time I think they had it up for £79,995.
I eventually did the deal at £70k for the car with 12 miles on the clock hoping that the most savage period of depreciation had passed and decided that HP was a better route to go as I would "own" more of the car at all stages, pay less interest etc but as a result put a much bigger deposit in to keep the monthlies in line with those from the M3.
In the end, I decided to settle the HP after around 9 months as second hand car finance (6.9%) is still quite an expensive form of borrowing and shorter term I had maxed out pension contributions for the year (thanks to the pension contribution taper) and I felt equity markets were pretty much peaking and I was wary of buying in at the top.
So in reality I have used most of the different financing options to acquire these vehicles, in the case of the M3 paid more to have a cheaper car and based on my circumstances at the time have reached different conclusions each time as to the best way pay for it.
As it stands the CS now has 12k miles on it so based on this thread has probably dropped the thick end of £20k in 16 months which is more than I had hoped but not too alarming (plus the cost of BMW winter wheels and tyres as the thing was undriveable on the Cup 2's when conditions are cold and damp).
As a comparison, the M3 was a great daily driver and whilst I use the M4 CS daily it is a lot less practical but as a driving experience the 2 cars are very different in terms of feel, power delivery and the calibration of driver aids.
The CS on track is sensational in comparison to the M3 but I am not sure how much of that is as a combination the carbon ceramic brakes Cup 2 tyre set up vs the suspension and wheel set up tweaks specific to the CS.
FWIW there are brilliant offers available from manufacturers from time to time which invariably are either linked to taking finance in one shape or form or leasing and recently I have seen unbelievable deals on 840GC's, X3M's and X4M's and these can prove to be great value for money if they fit what you want / need / can afford.
As a note of caution, speaking to one of my BMW contacts last week, he was saying they had a lot of customers coming out of run of the mill 3 series who have got into new X3M's and X4M's because the initial payment and monthlies were so low / affordable.
Pretty much all of these have been done on 48 month PCP's which in reality leaves the punters under water on the car until around month 42 (you need to pay back 50% of the original value just to be able to hand the keys back) and they know that for many, the costs associated with running an M car, especially such a heavy one, means some people will realise they can't actually afford it too late taking into account the costs for tyres, servicing and a 17 mpg ish thirst for super unleaded.
6 months in people could be sat with anywhere up to £15k of negative equity in the vehicle by the time they get a reality check which will not be pleasant.
Porsche911R said:
you missed his point, the point is they CANNOT AFFORD the car, they can afford to rent a car and that's their choice of course, but most CANNOT afford to own the car and sadly will be pretty fu***ed later when they have zero deposit for the next one so cannot keep in the same sort of cars going forward unless they pay even more !
Is the only definition of 'afford' having cold hard cash sat under the bed in a tin?Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 28th January 08:58
If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
iphonedyou said:
llcoolmac said:
I love that the logic of people arguing with me on this is "well people want to do it" or "lots of people do it" as if that somehow diminishes the fact that what the vast majority of people on PCP deals do is idiotic.
Yes, believe it or not buying car and paying all of the depreciation for three years while putting very little mileage on it is a totally financially idiotic decision. You may have decided you are fine with that but there is plenty of research out there to suggest that most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them when you take into account all of the other things that you will be paying for in your life.
If you are cool with that then fine, but it doesn't lessen the stupidity of your financial imprudence. It's their money and there is a very good reason most people have way less money than they should have by the time they hit retirement or even middle age.
Good article on it here for anyone who has an interest in it.
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/millions-motoris...
Just stop. You're absolutely mental.Yes, believe it or not buying car and paying all of the depreciation for three years while putting very little mileage on it is a totally financially idiotic decision. You may have decided you are fine with that but there is plenty of research out there to suggest that most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them when you take into account all of the other things that you will be paying for in your life.
If you are cool with that then fine, but it doesn't lessen the stupidity of your financial imprudence. It's their money and there is a very good reason most people have way less money than they should have by the time they hit retirement or even middle age.
Good article on it here for anyone who has an interest in it.
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/millions-motoris...
Edited by llcoolmac on Monday 27th January 23:22
ETA your very own link notes that of the 23% (8.7m) of motorists using PCP, 28% (2.4m) report being trapped. Of those, 60% (<1.5m) say they can't afford to end the agreement early. Which, in addition to not necessarily being linked to affordability in relation the ongoing monthlies, entirely undermines your statement that 'most people on PCP deals can't actually afford them'.
Edited by iphonedyou on Tuesday 28th January 13:21
Sure...cars aren't status symbols in a country where most people live in small, identical houses to their neighbours. You couldn't actually make this self delusion up.
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
llcoolmac said:
Haha, just because only 23% of people "feel trapped" doesn't mean that the other 77% are living within their means. It just means they either a) aren't bothered by it or b) aren't aware of how significant a drain on their income it is or c) can actually afford their balloon payment. Most people didn't feel trapped by their mortgage payments in Ireland in 2008 either but then the economic crash came, there was 18% unemployment and tens of thousands of people couldn't afford their mortgage repayments on their overvalued homes over night. Their feelings on the matter are utterly irrelevant as most people don't understand anything about their own finances. Over 50% of under 30s in the UK have zero savings of any type. Are people really just going to pretend there isn't going to be a flurry of millions of people desperately trying to ditch their cars when the next recession hits?
Sure...cars aren't status symbols in a country where most people live in small, identical houses to their neighbours. You couldn't actually make this self delusion up.
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
I’m sure there are plenty who buy cars as a status symbol, but there’s also plenty who but the damn things because they actually like them and enjoy.Sure...cars aren't status symbols in a country where most people live in small, identical houses to their neighbours. You couldn't actually make this self delusion up.
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
Your posts on the subject are full of ridiculous, sweeping statements and your very, very strange obsession and interest in other people’s finances. That’s why people have responded.
Ares said:
Porsche911R said:
you missed his point, the point is they CANNOT AFFORD the car, they can afford to rent a car and that's their choice of course, but most CANNOT afford to own the car and sadly will be pretty fu***ed later when they have zero deposit for the next one so cannot keep in the same sort of cars going forward unless they pay even more !
Is the only definition of 'afford' having cold hard cash sat under the bed in a tin?Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 28th January 08:58
If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
Ares said:
Is the only definition of 'afford' having cold hard cash sat under the bed in a tin?
If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
This is my issue..... My aversion to finance means I decided to buy and play depreciation roulette. Without any doubt, I'd have been better off to take finance.If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
llcoolmac said:
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
I'm one of the people simplistic oddballs like you presume is up to their eyeballs in debt in a bid to impress the neighbours. A white 2018 Q3 and a black 2018 S3 on the drive of a new-build house. No PCP though, but you and other judgemental folk can think what you like.I'm not annoyed by what you've written; I'm telling you to stop writing as you're predicating an argument on statistics you don't understand.
JC 73 said:
Having been through F80M3 and F82M4 CS "ownership" via PCP, HP and purchase it all boils down to the car you want and what are you willing / able to sacrifice to pay for it.
The M3 wasn't actually on my shortlist of cars at the time as I had narrowed my shortlist down to either a run out version of the F10 M5 or the newly released RS6 in 2016.
March 2016 - I was on the way to sign the paperwork for the RS6 even though I preferred the M5 which felt a much more connected drivers car. Having been driving an F10 Touring for the previous 3 years it didn't feel "new" enough and I knew with the new M5 being due out around 15 months later I would probably end up wanting to change sooner.
Deciding I wasn't brave enough to get a new car without the wife at least seeing / sitting in one, I took her with me and on the way she drove my 5 series touring for the first time and pointed out that she didn't understand why, if I wanted a sports car would I buy another big, black estate car which wouldn't ever really be suitable for track days due to the weight and costs of consumables.
To cut the story short we ended up in the BMW dealer next door to the Audi dealer and they had a brand new M3 with individual paint and every option ticked in the new car showroom which was like a magnet for everyone going into the dealer. She promptly walked straight up to it, opened the back door got in and said why don't you buy this one, it is big enough for the kids in the back and we did the deal that day.
(I still think Atlantis Blue is the best colour I have seen on an M3)
In the end I got a brand new M3 on PCP which based on the spec worked out more expensive per month than either the M5 or RS6 as £12k of options doesn't really make that much of a difference to the GFV and the APR's were different for all of the cars from interest free on the M5 to 4.9% on the M3 with the RS6 somewhere in between as well as massively different levels of support from the manufacturer and their in house finance arms. From memory there was nearly £20k contribution from BMW and BMW Finance on the M5 along with 0%.
October 2018, I traded the car in at 30 months old and 37k miles 6 months before the PCP term was up which meant a total cost of ownership of around £30k excluding road tax, insurance, tyres and petrol.
I had planned on keeping the M3 for 4 - 5 yrs but ended up spending too long hanging around dealerships looking at cars with / for a friend and man maths took over. Whilst I had originally intended on keeping the M3 longer it was difficult getting my head around paying £27k to stay in the same car at the end of the 36 month term along with a realisation that at the end of term there was not a great deal of equity in the car.
My best guess is the M4 CS I bought had been purchased by the dealer, registered and stored as I think they saw the potential for these to go for overs at some point in the future given the strength of the M4 GTS market at the time (wow how that has changed...) Obviously the demand they had hoped for wasn't there.
I had seen the car a couple of months earlier in the used car side of the dealership and really liked it but laughed out loud at the price and wondered what kind of idiot would pay £99k for a 4 series which is what the car was at list with the extras, at the time I think they had it up for £79,995.
I eventually did the deal at £70k for the car with 12 miles on the clock hoping that the most savage period of depreciation had passed and decided that HP was a better route to go as I would "own" more of the car at all stages, pay less interest etc but as a result put a much bigger deposit in to keep the monthlies in line with those from the M3.
In the end, I decided to settle the HP after around 9 months as second hand car finance (6.9%) is still quite an expensive form of borrowing and shorter term I had maxed out pension contributions for the year (thanks to the pension contribution taper) and I felt equity markets were pretty much peaking and I was wary of buying in at the top.
So in reality I have used most of the different financing options to acquire these vehicles, in the case of the M3 paid more to have a cheaper car and based on my circumstances at the time have reached different conclusions each time as to the best way pay for it.
As it stands the CS now has 12k miles on it so based on this thread has probably dropped the thick end of £20k in 16 months which is more than I had hoped but not too alarming (plus the cost of BMW winter wheels and tyres as the thing was undriveable on the Cup 2's when conditions are cold and damp).
As a comparison, the M3 was a great daily driver and whilst I use the M4 CS daily it is a lot less practical but as a driving experience the 2 cars are very different in terms of feel, power delivery and the calibration of driver aids.
The CS on track is sensational in comparison to the M3 but I am not sure how much of that is as a combination the carbon ceramic brakes Cup 2 tyre set up vs the suspension and wheel set up tweaks specific to the CS.
FWIW there are brilliant offers available from manufacturers from time to time which invariably are either linked to taking finance in one shape or form or leasing and recently I have seen unbelievable deals on 840GC's, X3M's and X4M's and these can prove to be great value for money if they fit what you want / need / can afford.
As a note of caution, speaking to one of my BMW contacts last week, he was saying they had a lot of customers coming out of run of the mill 3 series who have got into new X3M's and X4M's because the initial payment and monthlies were so low / affordable.
Pretty much all of these have been done on 48 month PCP's which in reality leaves the punters under water on the car until around month 42 (you need to pay back 50% of the original value just to be able to hand the keys back) and they know that for many, the costs associated with running an M car, especially such a heavy one, means some people will realise they can't actually afford it too late taking into account the costs for tyres, servicing and a 17 mpg ish thirst for super unleaded.
6 months in people could be sat with anywhere up to £15k of negative equity in the vehicle by the time they get a reality check which will not be pleasant.
Am I reading it right that over the last 46 months your M3 & M4 has cost 50k in PCP/Depreciation? The M3 wasn't actually on my shortlist of cars at the time as I had narrowed my shortlist down to either a run out version of the F10 M5 or the newly released RS6 in 2016.
March 2016 - I was on the way to sign the paperwork for the RS6 even though I preferred the M5 which felt a much more connected drivers car. Having been driving an F10 Touring for the previous 3 years it didn't feel "new" enough and I knew with the new M5 being due out around 15 months later I would probably end up wanting to change sooner.
Deciding I wasn't brave enough to get a new car without the wife at least seeing / sitting in one, I took her with me and on the way she drove my 5 series touring for the first time and pointed out that she didn't understand why, if I wanted a sports car would I buy another big, black estate car which wouldn't ever really be suitable for track days due to the weight and costs of consumables.
To cut the story short we ended up in the BMW dealer next door to the Audi dealer and they had a brand new M3 with individual paint and every option ticked in the new car showroom which was like a magnet for everyone going into the dealer. She promptly walked straight up to it, opened the back door got in and said why don't you buy this one, it is big enough for the kids in the back and we did the deal that day.
(I still think Atlantis Blue is the best colour I have seen on an M3)
In the end I got a brand new M3 on PCP which based on the spec worked out more expensive per month than either the M5 or RS6 as £12k of options doesn't really make that much of a difference to the GFV and the APR's were different for all of the cars from interest free on the M5 to 4.9% on the M3 with the RS6 somewhere in between as well as massively different levels of support from the manufacturer and their in house finance arms. From memory there was nearly £20k contribution from BMW and BMW Finance on the M5 along with 0%.
October 2018, I traded the car in at 30 months old and 37k miles 6 months before the PCP term was up which meant a total cost of ownership of around £30k excluding road tax, insurance, tyres and petrol.
I had planned on keeping the M3 for 4 - 5 yrs but ended up spending too long hanging around dealerships looking at cars with / for a friend and man maths took over. Whilst I had originally intended on keeping the M3 longer it was difficult getting my head around paying £27k to stay in the same car at the end of the 36 month term along with a realisation that at the end of term there was not a great deal of equity in the car.
My best guess is the M4 CS I bought had been purchased by the dealer, registered and stored as I think they saw the potential for these to go for overs at some point in the future given the strength of the M4 GTS market at the time (wow how that has changed...) Obviously the demand they had hoped for wasn't there.
I had seen the car a couple of months earlier in the used car side of the dealership and really liked it but laughed out loud at the price and wondered what kind of idiot would pay £99k for a 4 series which is what the car was at list with the extras, at the time I think they had it up for £79,995.
I eventually did the deal at £70k for the car with 12 miles on the clock hoping that the most savage period of depreciation had passed and decided that HP was a better route to go as I would "own" more of the car at all stages, pay less interest etc but as a result put a much bigger deposit in to keep the monthlies in line with those from the M3.
In the end, I decided to settle the HP after around 9 months as second hand car finance (6.9%) is still quite an expensive form of borrowing and shorter term I had maxed out pension contributions for the year (thanks to the pension contribution taper) and I felt equity markets were pretty much peaking and I was wary of buying in at the top.
So in reality I have used most of the different financing options to acquire these vehicles, in the case of the M3 paid more to have a cheaper car and based on my circumstances at the time have reached different conclusions each time as to the best way pay for it.
As it stands the CS now has 12k miles on it so based on this thread has probably dropped the thick end of £20k in 16 months which is more than I had hoped but not too alarming (plus the cost of BMW winter wheels and tyres as the thing was undriveable on the Cup 2's when conditions are cold and damp).
As a comparison, the M3 was a great daily driver and whilst I use the M4 CS daily it is a lot less practical but as a driving experience the 2 cars are very different in terms of feel, power delivery and the calibration of driver aids.
The CS on track is sensational in comparison to the M3 but I am not sure how much of that is as a combination the carbon ceramic brakes Cup 2 tyre set up vs the suspension and wheel set up tweaks specific to the CS.
FWIW there are brilliant offers available from manufacturers from time to time which invariably are either linked to taking finance in one shape or form or leasing and recently I have seen unbelievable deals on 840GC's, X3M's and X4M's and these can prove to be great value for money if they fit what you want / need / can afford.
As a note of caution, speaking to one of my BMW contacts last week, he was saying they had a lot of customers coming out of run of the mill 3 series who have got into new X3M's and X4M's because the initial payment and monthlies were so low / affordable.
Pretty much all of these have been done on 48 month PCP's which in reality leaves the punters under water on the car until around month 42 (you need to pay back 50% of the original value just to be able to hand the keys back) and they know that for many, the costs associated with running an M car, especially such a heavy one, means some people will realise they can't actually afford it too late taking into account the costs for tyres, servicing and a 17 mpg ish thirst for super unleaded.
6 months in people could be sat with anywhere up to £15k of negative equity in the vehicle by the time they get a reality check which will not be pleasant.
llcoolmac said:
Haha, just because only 23% of people "feel trapped" doesn't mean that the other 77% are living within their means. It just means they either a) aren't bothered by it or b) aren't aware of how significant a drain on their income it is or c) can actually afford their balloon payment. Most people didn't feel trapped by their mortgage payments in Ireland in 2008 either but then the economic crash came, there was 18% unemployment and tens of thousands of people couldn't afford their mortgage repayments on their overvalued homes over night. Their feelings on the matter are utterly irrelevant as most people don't understand anything about their own finances. Over 50% of under 30s in the UK have zero savings of any type. Are people really just going to pretend there isn't going to be a flurry of millions of people desperately trying to ditch their cars when the next recession hits?
Sure...cars aren't status symbols in a country where most people live in small, identical houses to their neighbours. You couldn't actually make this self delusion up.
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
Your entire post is pure conjecture though. Why do you think people are buying cars to impress their neighbors? How many people have you asked?Sure...cars aren't status symbols in a country where most people live in small, identical houses to their neighbours. You couldn't actually make this self delusion up.
And yes, just for clarity there is certainly a significant minority of people who are actually buying new cars on PCP, HP or from Cash and living well within their means. Perhaps you are triggered at being lumped in with those people when in fact you are one of the sensible ones. The amusing thing here is that if you are one of the ones using PCP sensibly then there is absolutely no reason to be annoyed by anything I have written.
TX.
shea89 said:
Am I reading it right that over the last 46 months your M3 & M4 has cost 50k in PCP/Depreciation?
Yep, pretty much, I try not to think about it all the time 
I should blame porsche for not offering me a build slot on a 991.2 GT3 which i could have left mainly in the garage.
But in reality, I have had the pleasure of owning (renting in some people's eyes) 2 cars I have really enjoyed and had the pleasure to use every day and put 50k miles on in the process.
I think over the same time and distance depreciation would have been similar on the M5 or the RS6.
Or I could have done in double that in half the time in a McLaren I didn't dare to take out in the rain...
Hungrymc said:
Ares said:
Is the only definition of 'afford' having cold hard cash sat under the bed in a tin?
If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
This is my issue..... My aversion to finance means I decided to buy and play depreciation roulette. Without any doubt, I'd have been better off to take finance.If a car is £600/mth, and the person has £7000/mth disposable income, how can that possibly be 'cannot afford'?
As for the financial savvy, how is it more sensible to lose £40,000 in depreciation over 4 years rather than pay £30,000 to lease the same car for the same period?
This is the crux of it. There are good, bad and horrendous finance deals.
Just like there are good bad and horrendous cash deals.
Although it certainly does appear that there are a disproportionate number of bad pcp type deals with mugs stuck in a never ending cycle of debt paying monthly amounts they cannot afford presumably because they do not understand basic economics.
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