Urgent Insurance advice - Carpark smash
Discussion
saaby93 said:
I wonder if we're talking about the same helpful fellow who may be someones dad
Ahhh, I'm with you. Sorry, I was talking about the other party. Unfortunately I was too slow to get in touch with Anniesdad - I'd already proceeded with the repair to the point where it was too late for him to get involved. I wish I had known about him sooner.
Ok, so yesterday I received a reply from my CEO e-mail. A manager of some has got in touch stating he has requested details from their claim managers and also the independent engineer and would get back to me today.
I've just had a phone call with their results. Long story short their in house engineers and the independent engineer believe the car will need a partial respray, you've guessed it, estimated at half the price of my quote. They also aren't accepting my costs unless I can prove they are a quantifiable loss of earnings (taking time off work etc) - They won't reimburse me for my time. I said let's not discuss my costs now as the priority is the car repair for now.
They are going to send me an e-mail with a justification from their engineers and independent so I can go to some bodyshops to re-quote. Not helpful really as only 1 out of 4 will do the work and the 1 which will, isn't interested; I think he'll say no this time around.
I've still not seen the original independent report but I have requested it, more than once. I sense foul play as the independent engineer was singing a very different tune when I last spoke to him.
I'm not sure i'm prepared to run around getting quotes again, but I do feel I'll need my own report at this stage.
I've just had a phone call with their results. Long story short their in house engineers and the independent engineer believe the car will need a partial respray, you've guessed it, estimated at half the price of my quote. They also aren't accepting my costs unless I can prove they are a quantifiable loss of earnings (taking time off work etc) - They won't reimburse me for my time. I said let's not discuss my costs now as the priority is the car repair for now.
They are going to send me an e-mail with a justification from their engineers and independent so I can go to some bodyshops to re-quote. Not helpful really as only 1 out of 4 will do the work and the 1 which will, isn't interested; I think he'll say no this time around.
I've still not seen the original independent report but I have requested it, more than once. I sense foul play as the independent engineer was singing a very different tune when I last spoke to him.
I'm not sure i'm prepared to run around getting quotes again, but I do feel I'll need my own report at this stage.
Morning chaps!
So after yesterdays low ball offer I requested the insurance estimated quote and also the original report so I can figure out if their offer is justified. I can see how they've got to it, but it's wrong on a few levels.
The original report is quite good, not biased and i'm comfortable with it being truly independent. It does however miss some of the minor defects, most not being a concern as the panels are mentioned elsewhere needing rectification - It would have been nice for these defects to be mentioned as it builds the bigger picture. However the O/s rear quarter is completely dismissed (not mentioned at all), the rear quarter looks to have dirty watermarks under the clearcoat. The independent engineer spent some time trying to rub the marks off and came to the conclusion it appears to be under the lacquer (he mentioned it could be some strong cleaner which wasn't rinsed off properly so it's sank/eat into the clear coat). Either way, this is one of the larger issue on the car so i'm very surprised it's not in the report.
20160911_155551 by Rich Perkins, on Flickr
The report clearly states that every panel repaired is to unacceptable standard and that workmanship is very poor. It states the quote received (my bodyshop) is the only method the chap is prepared to undertake due to the current extent of the problem, both actual and perceived. It also states i'm going to be very difficult to satisfy. I'm a little miffed as the document appears to be making me out to be a tough customer.
Onto the estimated costs, this was also created by the very same independent engineer. It's missing various rectifications required as highlighted by his own report. I'm still not sure how someone who isn't a bodyshop can be used as an estimated quote, where have his cost's come from? I suppose it's very easy for someone not actually doing the work to cut costs back to the bone.
So anyway, this all explains the low ball offer.
I then sent an e-mail back to the insurer with my findings and said without doubt, I would not shop around to fix their issue with the aim of saving them money. The bodyshop has clearly stated the only work he is prepared to undertake and I will not risk loosing him as the only approved bodyshop within an hour of me. I said I would not accept any less than what it'll take to repair the car. I also offered them a settlement for a fast resolution (in regards to my costs - made it clear it was a one time offer), but first thing Monday morning I'll be servicing notice to their indemnified party for the whole shabang. Which I plan to do.
If I don't have a response by this time next week looks like it's court.
So after yesterdays low ball offer I requested the insurance estimated quote and also the original report so I can figure out if their offer is justified. I can see how they've got to it, but it's wrong on a few levels.
The original report is quite good, not biased and i'm comfortable with it being truly independent. It does however miss some of the minor defects, most not being a concern as the panels are mentioned elsewhere needing rectification - It would have been nice for these defects to be mentioned as it builds the bigger picture. However the O/s rear quarter is completely dismissed (not mentioned at all), the rear quarter looks to have dirty watermarks under the clearcoat. The independent engineer spent some time trying to rub the marks off and came to the conclusion it appears to be under the lacquer (he mentioned it could be some strong cleaner which wasn't rinsed off properly so it's sank/eat into the clear coat). Either way, this is one of the larger issue on the car so i'm very surprised it's not in the report.
20160911_155551 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrThe report clearly states that every panel repaired is to unacceptable standard and that workmanship is very poor. It states the quote received (my bodyshop) is the only method the chap is prepared to undertake due to the current extent of the problem, both actual and perceived. It also states i'm going to be very difficult to satisfy. I'm a little miffed as the document appears to be making me out to be a tough customer.
Onto the estimated costs, this was also created by the very same independent engineer. It's missing various rectifications required as highlighted by his own report. I'm still not sure how someone who isn't a bodyshop can be used as an estimated quote, where have his cost's come from? I suppose it's very easy for someone not actually doing the work to cut costs back to the bone.
So anyway, this all explains the low ball offer.
I then sent an e-mail back to the insurer with my findings and said without doubt, I would not shop around to fix their issue with the aim of saving them money. The bodyshop has clearly stated the only work he is prepared to undertake and I will not risk loosing him as the only approved bodyshop within an hour of me. I said I would not accept any less than what it'll take to repair the car. I also offered them a settlement for a fast resolution (in regards to my costs - made it clear it was a one time offer), but first thing Monday morning I'll be servicing notice to their indemnified party for the whole shabang. Which I plan to do.
If I don't have a response by this time next week looks like it's court.
MoelyCrio said:
Regarding being a difficult customer - you are.
Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
You're right, I know most car owners wouldn't have noticed or cared. Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
thecremeegg said:
I'd have got my insurer involved by now. Nothing like the cost of a management company forcing the insurer to act.
I hope it all works out for you!
My insurance are aware, but I didn't want to instruct. Bit late now I think. Lesson learnt. I hope it all works out for you!
edo said:
MoelyCrio said:
Regarding being a difficult customer - you are.
Most people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
Dont be a tMost people won't have even noticed most of that stuff.
It's not a criticism, but try and see the bigger picture, you're well outside their normal parameters.
Good luck with it all.
t.OP, keep going they are hoping to wear you down.
Hungrymc said:
Messy situation OP. On one hand, even new cars are not perfect, they will have paint defects and colour mismatches (not everything is painted at the same time in the same facility - it just depends on how hard you look). And on the other hand, some of the defects your car has are pretty poor and they just show a significant lack of care.
If you are really worried about long term integrity, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a 1 year old car that has had a "full re-spray"... I assume we're not talking about a full strip down, glass, trim, harnesses, drive train out ? So even this is going to be a major compromise. It's a difficult call but in general, I'd rather a repair was as none invasive as possible (I'd rather small areas of thin filler than having panels cut off).
You're in a tricky spot and I really hope you get a repair that you're happy with even though I can't see this car ever coming up to your standards now. Therefore, I hope you find a solution that helps you with the depricition hit you would take in changing the car early, as I think that is the only happy outcome. Best of luck with it.
Yep, very sticky situation. The repair is currently poor, a full respray; considering no one actually wants to do it is incredibly high risk. I think the issue is, at a bare minimum the car needs a ull front end (bumper, bonnet, both wings), both A-Pillars stretching half way up the roof, both doors, both sills, rear bumper, boot, the o/s rear quarter and the very lower section of the n/s rear quarter. The justification of the bodyshop is by the time you've masked and blended here and there, it'll be easier work wise to do the whole lot. Plus it means he won't miss anything as there are so many minor defects. If you are really worried about long term integrity, I'm not sure I'd be happy with a 1 year old car that has had a "full re-spray"... I assume we're not talking about a full strip down, glass, trim, harnesses, drive train out ? So even this is going to be a major compromise. It's a difficult call but in general, I'd rather a repair was as none invasive as possible (I'd rather small areas of thin filler than having panels cut off).
You're in a tricky spot and I really hope you get a repair that you're happy with even though I can't see this car ever coming up to your standards now. Therefore, I hope you find a solution that helps you with the depricition hit you would take in changing the car early, as I think that is the only happy outcome. Best of luck with it.
I'm in a loose loose situation.
Jim AK said:
Bit harsh.
OP has a car that's covered 3500 miles, is pretty new & it got damaged through no fault of his own.
Also, its on a PCP or whatever so if he sent it back in the state it's currently, by sounds of the repair quality it's going to look even worse by the time his contract ends so he will get hit with a repair cost from them.
Not very fair is it?
I return lease cars on a regular basis & the lengths some inspectors go to to find issues amaze me sometimes.
Can't believe the trouble you're having OP. Good luck with the outcome.
Another concern of mine. There is lacquer peel on this current work, albeit very very small, winter won't be kind. never mind in 2 years. I need to mitigate any potential loss. OP has a car that's covered 3500 miles, is pretty new & it got damaged through no fault of his own.
Also, its on a PCP or whatever so if he sent it back in the state it's currently, by sounds of the repair quality it's going to look even worse by the time his contract ends so he will get hit with a repair cost from them.
Not very fair is it?
I return lease cars on a regular basis & the lengths some inspectors go to to find issues amaze me sometimes.
Can't believe the trouble you're having OP. Good luck with the outcome.
Edited by Jim AK on Saturday 8th October 09:27
Vaud said:
No need for abuse.
I think some of the imperfections are within the boundaries of any car and might not have been an issue were it not for the respray.
It's a nice car but there is no such thing as perfect paintwork, even on a new car (and many have minor touch ups before delivery.
I think the OP is going to be impossible to 100% satisfy in this scenario given what has gone before.
It's important to him but a small issue in the grander scheme of things.
I agree, the independent stated x3 imperfections per panel is acceptable, it'd grate on me as I know there wasn't this much from new, but I have to respect professional opinion. Luckily for me, the independent has said each and every single repaired panel has more than x3 imperfections so need a respray.I think some of the imperfections are within the boundaries of any car and might not have been an issue were it not for the respray.
It's a nice car but there is no such thing as perfect paintwork, even on a new car (and many have minor touch ups before delivery.
I think the OP is going to be impossible to 100% satisfy in this scenario given what has gone before.
It's important to him but a small issue in the grander scheme of things.
I know the car will never be 100% again. Which is why I can't accept any less than what's required. I am being picky, but mainly because the whole situation has got my back up, is that justified?
HAPPY UPDATE - This weekend I spent a good few hours writing up my notes, timelines, breakdown of costs, going through my phone calls etc. Sent them to the insurance this morning with Section 152 Notice. Boom, 10 minutes later I get a settlement figure over double what they offered last time. I think the document I sent made them realise how organised and determined I am.
The settlement figure is enough to get the car repaired or other options such as trade in if I go that route. If this went to court I would have only gained a couple of grand more so really was not worth the fight. I've accepted.
Thanks for all your advice and help along the way. Not naming anyone in specific, but you know who you are - I owe you guys a few beers.
The settlement figure is enough to get the car repaired or other options such as trade in if I go that route. If this went to court I would have only gained a couple of grand more so really was not worth the fight. I've accepted.
Thanks for all your advice and help along the way. Not naming anyone in specific, but you know who you are - I owe you guys a few beers.
Hungrymc said:
Give us a happy ending.... What is in its place ?
Very happy ending. I'm a tiny bit out of pocket but worth the money, hassle and stress this claim has caused. 
20161012_181535 by Rich Perkins, on FlickrThanks for the support and kind words chaps. As good as the result was, I'm not sure i'f i'd go through it all again and if there was next time, I'd 100% be straight in touch with Anniesdad or accident management to handle the claim. By the time I realised how bad things were, I was past the point of no return. In hindsight, lifes too short.
saaby93 said:
Theyre not all the same
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
So it's a potential shttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=100...
tstorm either way! KungFuPanda said:
How's the paintwork on the BMW?
BMW Orange Peely 
It's not that bad actually, looks like the dealers already given it a wet sand and detail - not a swirl in sight.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff