RE: Pinch-me Honda Integra Type R for sale
Discussion
havoc said:
I was talking to a couple of mates the other day about all these lower-end cars going up in value, and we came to the conclusion that unless you had the mintiest, lowest-mileage car going, you wouldn't make a big return*:-
- Assume your car goes from £5k to £15k in 10 years. You've got £10k potential profit in that.
- ...but, unless you can SORN and barn-store it, you'll have 10 years of VED, of insurance, services and arguably at least one rust repair.
- ...so you're down to a couple of hundred quid a year profit at best, maybe pennies. Potentially not bad, but hardly big money over 10 years.
- ...so the only people that DO profit are those who ARE investors, who have the space to store it, who do almost nothing to/with the car and then flog it on to someone like-minded.**
Otherwise you may as well take advantage of what, IF you sell the car, becomes free motoring. It's not an investment and it's still got the cash outflow of an old car (i.e. no cheaper if done properly than a modern PCP), but you end up with a lot of cash at the end.
Very well put. My next car purchase had a nod towards depreciation, or should I say mitigation, but not because I want to make a profit, but just so I can actually get back most of my money and essentially enjoy the car for less money overall.- Assume your car goes from £5k to £15k in 10 years. You've got £10k potential profit in that.
- ...but, unless you can SORN and barn-store it, you'll have 10 years of VED, of insurance, services and arguably at least one rust repair.
- ...so you're down to a couple of hundred quid a year profit at best, maybe pennies. Potentially not bad, but hardly big money over 10 years.
- ...so the only people that DO profit are those who ARE investors, who have the space to store it, who do almost nothing to/with the car and then flog it on to someone like-minded.**
Otherwise you may as well take advantage of what, IF you sell the car, becomes free motoring. It's not an investment and it's still got the cash outflow of an old car (i.e. no cheaper if done properly than a modern PCP), but you end up with a lot of cash at the end.
And really is anyone going to buy a collector's car at a huge premium, just to subject it once more to a normal life? Probably not is my guess, it'll just get bought by another investor and possibly end up in a museum. I much prefer to see cars being enjoyed. The whole investor thing is annoying for anyone who just wants to buy a car to enjoy as it's really put the prices up.
Sometimes I look back at the cars I've had and think "damn why did I sell that when I did?" But posts like yours remind me said cars would have been tired heaps by now and wouldn't have made me that much profit overall, so I'm just glad I enjoyed them.
A_DHE said:
I see the car from the advert has now been sold, anyone on here buy it? and if so all good with the car?
Looking on the Integra Forum, I know someone on here seems to have bought one very recently but I strongly doubt it's this one judging by his comments on here regarding the one advertised. 
You know who you are so please indulge us with your latest purchase when you're ready. Just bear in mind that some here are not easily impressed so be prepared and I say that in good jest!
Just read this thread...
I've had 5 UK integra dc2's, 3 championship white year 98/ yr2000/ yr 2001 - 1 Milano red yr2000 - 1 starlight black yr2000, and it's important to clarify that each had it's own distinct character. The engines were all ported and polished by hand at the factory. Some are more tractable and usable daily, some are more raw. When in the mood for a good blast, I doubt there's a much finer chassis and drivetrain at ten tenths commitment. The article states a dc2 wouldn't see which way a modern hatch went. From experience that's incorrect. My standard white 98 dc2 remained ahead of a Mk2 focus RS on cut and thrust roads. I also locked onto the tail of a standard Mitsubishi Evo 6 in my white 2000 plate car. Must be the power to weight ratio, throttle response, control weights, rifle bolt gearbox.
The first white one I had did require a paracetamol after a long drive, and seemed totally paired back and bare bones like a caterham. Almost like it had no windows and the engine seemed very raucous. The black one conversely was a great daily driver, revving effortlessly and seemed as refined as an Accord. The red one sat somewhere in between, was milano pink, and delivered great power on cam. The second 2000 plate UK car in white was the best of all worlds. The final white 98 spec was also powerful and a combination of all the above, but no better or worse than the run out 2000 plate cars. Folklore suggest the first 98 UK cars were production specials, I didn't notice any evidence of this. All the B-series engines delivered great power at the top end, but some seemed to deliver a more usable torque curve for daily driving. A great integra should be fluid in its transition to VTEC, deliver a noticeable kick and sound feral.
Never had a bad dc2 but I did have a couple of bad Accord Type R's that were gutless and conversely some that were magnificent and effortlessly pulled to the redline. I wish I still had my first Accord type R in red for example. That particular H22 VTEC engine was a beast, pulled off the clock no hesitation like a two stroke. Sold it for a lower mileage black Accord Type R which was gutless needed thrashing and I sold it on quickly.
Value wise I think a nice dc2 deserves to command a high price, or it's absolutely not worth selling.
The k20 engine Type R engine is also great from experience and seems to deliver consistently good power. In fact any good VTEC engine is a delight. If you are unlucky and had a bad VTEC that needs thrashing like a chore, you'll probably wonder what all the fuss is about. A good VTEC should just sail towards the redline as a pleasure. Change the oil regularly, respect from cold, use super unleaded and it'll be ultra reliable.
I've had 5 UK integra dc2's, 3 championship white year 98/ yr2000/ yr 2001 - 1 Milano red yr2000 - 1 starlight black yr2000, and it's important to clarify that each had it's own distinct character. The engines were all ported and polished by hand at the factory. Some are more tractable and usable daily, some are more raw. When in the mood for a good blast, I doubt there's a much finer chassis and drivetrain at ten tenths commitment. The article states a dc2 wouldn't see which way a modern hatch went. From experience that's incorrect. My standard white 98 dc2 remained ahead of a Mk2 focus RS on cut and thrust roads. I also locked onto the tail of a standard Mitsubishi Evo 6 in my white 2000 plate car. Must be the power to weight ratio, throttle response, control weights, rifle bolt gearbox.
The first white one I had did require a paracetamol after a long drive, and seemed totally paired back and bare bones like a caterham. Almost like it had no windows and the engine seemed very raucous. The black one conversely was a great daily driver, revving effortlessly and seemed as refined as an Accord. The red one sat somewhere in between, was milano pink, and delivered great power on cam. The second 2000 plate UK car in white was the best of all worlds. The final white 98 spec was also powerful and a combination of all the above, but no better or worse than the run out 2000 plate cars. Folklore suggest the first 98 UK cars were production specials, I didn't notice any evidence of this. All the B-series engines delivered great power at the top end, but some seemed to deliver a more usable torque curve for daily driving. A great integra should be fluid in its transition to VTEC, deliver a noticeable kick and sound feral.
Never had a bad dc2 but I did have a couple of bad Accord Type R's that were gutless and conversely some that were magnificent and effortlessly pulled to the redline. I wish I still had my first Accord type R in red for example. That particular H22 VTEC engine was a beast, pulled off the clock no hesitation like a two stroke. Sold it for a lower mileage black Accord Type R which was gutless needed thrashing and I sold it on quickly.
Value wise I think a nice dc2 deserves to command a high price, or it's absolutely not worth selling.
The k20 engine Type R engine is also great from experience and seems to deliver consistently good power. In fact any good VTEC engine is a delight. If you are unlucky and had a bad VTEC that needs thrashing like a chore, you'll probably wonder what all the fuss is about. A good VTEC should just sail towards the redline as a pleasure. Change the oil regularly, respect from cold, use super unleaded and it'll be ultra reliable.
The Rotrex Kid said:
I seem to reall this was only for the very, very first vehicles off the production line, most of the B18C engines were done by machine.
That aside, the B18C is still a superb engine.
It is, the noise is crazy from these, definitely the most addictive part of the experience for me. That aside, the B18C is still a superb engine.
Mind I had a k20 engine in the fn2 with a hondata and it let the VTEC kick in at 3800 and gave it another 500 rpm / 10 bhp and it was an absolute hoot, it felt feral.
The Rotrex Kid said:
That aside, the B18C is still a superb engine.
I can still vividly recall the sound as it came on-cam on a cold winter morning...something about that air that made the car sound extra-feral and I always loved going out early in that car. Only thing I can compare it to is a less-cultured E46 CSL.leonintegra36 said:
Just read this thread...
I've had 5 UK integra dc2's, 3 championship white year 98/ yr2000/ yr 2001 - 1 Milano red yr2000 - 1 starlight black yr2000, and it's important to clarify that each had it's own distinct character. The engines were all ported and polished by hand at the factory. Some are more tractable and usable daily, some are more raw. When in the mood for a good blast, I doubt there's a much finer chassis and drivetrain at ten tenths commitment. The article states a dc2 wouldn't see which way a modern hatch went. From experience that's incorrect. My standard white 98 dc2 remained ahead of a Mk2 focus RS on cut and thrust roads. I also locked onto the tail of a standard Mitsubishi Evo 6 in my white 2000 plate car. Must be the power to weight ratio, throttle response, control weights, rifle bolt gearbox.
and it'll be ultra reliable.
I would agree with all of this having owned many DC2 and kept a couple for long term use as daily driver and also track use ( standard apart from pads and track tyres.I've had 5 UK integra dc2's, 3 championship white year 98/ yr2000/ yr 2001 - 1 Milano red yr2000 - 1 starlight black yr2000, and it's important to clarify that each had it's own distinct character. The engines were all ported and polished by hand at the factory. Some are more tractable and usable daily, some are more raw. When in the mood for a good blast, I doubt there's a much finer chassis and drivetrain at ten tenths commitment. The article states a dc2 wouldn't see which way a modern hatch went. From experience that's incorrect. My standard white 98 dc2 remained ahead of a Mk2 focus RS on cut and thrust roads. I also locked onto the tail of a standard Mitsubishi Evo 6 in my white 2000 plate car. Must be the power to weight ratio, throttle response, control weights, rifle bolt gearbox.
and it'll be ultra reliable.
What fantastic cars they were! I don’t think I could use one daily now the last one I had I found I didn’t enjoy much as a daily but previously loved them.
I remember picking one up with a pal and we were in my Evo8 and I let him drive my new purchase back to my house along some of our favourite back roads mix of A and B roads and remarked after this long drive that at some points was struggling to keep up with my new purchase along the back roads and knew he was having more fun than my in an Evo MR which is quite a statement for a little na hatch with 190 bhp.
My red W reg was the best of them as a daily driver somehow felt more comfortable as a daily than the others.
I also had a couple that had previously had fortunes spent on upgrades and neither were as good as the standard cars.
Would be great if Honda could build a similar replacement model but doubt we will ever see something as good again (modern cars far too heavy for various reasons mostly safety and comfort).
How much is a good unmodified Dc2 these days?
rallycross said:
How much is a good unmodified Dc2 these days?
£20k for a genuinely good one.Also sadly £20k for one with sensible miles that probably needs a chunk work doing to it to return it to former glories. Joys of supply and demand and people not knowing enough about what these need to drive properly well (on both sides - vendors with unrealistic expectations, and buyers who just see "investment opportunity" or "hero car" and haven't read about what makes them special*.
Also sadly because they dropped down to the £3k mark 10-15 years ago, too many have been barried / had valuable OE parts replaced with cheaper aftermarket "because coilovers" / "because polybush" etc. Or just plain haven't had the bodywork looked after and are sadly too rotten to recover, even with the latest asking prices.
* OE dampers and bushes, good steering rack and bushing, OE seats, strong compression, good gear linkage and synchro that hasn't been abused by someone ham-fisted.
havoc said:
£20k for a genuinely good one.
Also sadly £20k for one with sensible miles that probably needs a chunk work doing to it to return it to former glories. Joys of supply and demand and people not knowing enough about what these need to drive properly well (on both sides - vendors with unrealistic expectations, and buyers who just see "investment opportunity" or "hero car" and haven't read about what makes them special*.
Also sadly because they dropped down to the £3k mark 10-15 years ago, too many have been barried / had valuable OE parts replaced with cheaper aftermarket "because coilovers" / "because polybush" etc. Or just plain haven't had the bodywork looked after and are sadly too rotten to recover, even with the latest asking prices.
* OE dampers and bushes, good steering rack and bushing, OE seats, strong compression, good gear linkage and synchro that hasn't been abused by someone ham-fisted.
True story! Mine is garaged up & has been for a little while now. Must bring it out to play this year!Also sadly £20k for one with sensible miles that probably needs a chunk work doing to it to return it to former glories. Joys of supply and demand and people not knowing enough about what these need to drive properly well (on both sides - vendors with unrealistic expectations, and buyers who just see "investment opportunity" or "hero car" and haven't read about what makes them special*.
Also sadly because they dropped down to the £3k mark 10-15 years ago, too many have been barried / had valuable OE parts replaced with cheaper aftermarket "because coilovers" / "because polybush" etc. Or just plain haven't had the bodywork looked after and are sadly too rotten to recover, even with the latest asking prices.
* OE dampers and bushes, good steering rack and bushing, OE seats, strong compression, good gear linkage and synchro that hasn't been abused by someone ham-fisted.
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