Are modern cars becoming too.. accomplished?

[frp0092]

Been thinking about this very issue recently. So my car set up was that wife has a Focus, and I had a Ford Racing Puma, a BMW X6 and a cheap and cheerful Fiesta. The FRP is the garage queen, the X6 was bought because (unlike the majority) I really like them, and then the Fiesta was bought as I commute by train every day to work and wanted something to take to the station carpark on a daily basis without risking the X6 being vandalised or the DPF's being ruined.

Now, the X6 is im my view a superb piece of engineering, but for the majority of my driving (short local journeys, blasts through the countryside and simple 'pleasure-drives'), I found the X6 leaving me a little cold and un-involved. I also found that when I thought about the most enjoyable recent drives I had had (ignoring the FRP), that each one was hussling an old Fiesta through country-lanes at legal and safe speeds.

So about a month ago the X6 was down-traded for a Abarth 500, and the Fiesta given to a friend in need. The Abarth has brought back the grin-factor when driving.

[RoverP6B]

I don't really think modern cars are becoming more accomplished. We're just becoming more accustomed to being fed the same numb, hard-riding overpriced shít. The 2-series GT is a case in point. It's a tallish, shortish, narrowish mini-MPV, with front-wheel-drive. A FWD BMW, kill me now... it's a hard-sprung, cheaply-built, understeering heap of junk. It in no way embodies any BMW brand values. It's a desperate attempt to cash into a market that used to be big, but BMW is 15 years late to the party, the people who bought Renault Scenics are all in Nissan Qashqais now.

Go and drive an M235i back-to-back with an E46 M3 (should be a close match performance-wise). I dare you to come back and tell us that the anodyne turbocharged modern is in any way superior to its snarling, howling ancestor.

[SidewaysSi]

RoverP6B said:

I don't really think modern cars are becoming more accomplished. We're just becoming more accustomed to being fed the same numb, hard-riding overpriced shít. The 2-series GT is a case in point. It's a tallish, shortish, narrowish mini-MPV, with front-wheel-drive. A FWD BMW, kill me now... it's a hard-sprung, cheaply-built, understeering heap of junk. It in no way embodies any BMW brand values. It's a desperate attempt to cash into a market that used to be big, but BMW is 15 years late to the party, the people who bought Renault Scenics are all in Nissan Qashqais now.

Go and drive an M235i back-to-back with an E46 M3 (should be a close match performance-wise). I dare you to come back and tell us that the anodyne turbocharged modern is in any way superior to its snarling, howling ancestor.

And I thought the E46 M3 was heavy, dull and boring. Most modern cars have been too accomplished for well over 10 years IMO. Very few places you can fully exploit the average fast car these days. And as for steering feel, forget it.

[Redlake27]

If we are talking 'character' rather than 'competency' then, yes, the personality of cars has become more synthetic.

In the 70s, taking a Granada as a benchmark luxury car, you could say that a trip to a Merc showroom would get you into something more sluggish but solid for the same price and a trip to a Citroen showroom would take you into a sci-fi world. Likewise, plumpingfor an Alfetta would bring the sparkle of high revving, soulful engines. They were all very different. Now, it is fake engine notes and retuned EPAS that distinguishes brands.

If the topic is 'competency', there were some truly appalling cars on the market 30 years ago. Allegro, Lada, Marina etc. Now, even the blandest cars (I'm thinking Golf, Pulsar, Auris genre) are, objectively, excellent and personal taste is the only differentiator.

Thankfully, Porsche, Lotus, Jaguar, Citroen (Cactus) and hopefully Alfa with the Giulia seem to be putting a bit of soul , as well as competency, back into cars.

[RoverP6B]

The E46 is not perhaps quite so raw and visceral as an E9 3.0CS or CSL, but it's still a car with character, especially compared to the cars of today.

Steering feel? I think it's a basic safety issue. If I can't feel the road through my fingertips, I don't feel confident or safe behind the wheel.

I also disagree fundamentally with the argument that the commmon-or-garden hatch is objectively excellent. It isn't. Look at the Golf. Appallingly unreliable (especially DSG examples), most of 'em diesel, rides and handles with all the grace and panache of an over-laden shopping trolley, unrefined, zero steering feel... it's a terrible car, and it's considered the market leader in its sector!

Edited by RoverP6B on Friday 16th October 11:04

[Ozzie Osmond]

RoverP6B said:

The E46 is not perhaps quite so raw and visceral as an E9 3.0CS or CSL, but it's still a car with character, especially compared to the cars of today.

Steering feel? I think it's a basic safety issue. If I can't feel the road through my fingertips, I don't feel confident or safe behind the wheel.

Sounds as though you're ready for your pipe and slippers.

[RoverP6B]

Rubbish, I still like cars to have a bit of a raw, visceral edge to them. It's nice to waft about, but I get bored with that, and even then I still think steering feel is essential.

[havoc]

SidewaysSi said:

Go and drive an M235i back-to-back with an E46 M3 (should be a close match performance-wise). I dare you to come back and tell us that the anodyne turbocharged modern is in any way superior to its snarling, howling ancestor.

And I thought the E46 M3 was heavy, dull and boring. Most modern cars have been too accomplished for well over 10 years IMO. Very few places you can fully exploit the average fast car these days. And as for steering feel, forget it.

Yet the M235i only weighs 100kg less...IF you believe the figures, as most modern manufacturers seem adept at understating true kerb weights (Jaguar I'm looking at you!).

I do agree on the 'over 10 years' comment, but I disagree about the E46 M3 - it's too heavy, true, and a little too stiff (to control said weight), but it's got genuinely nice controls, SOME feedback, and one of the last great n/a engines mated to a proper mechanical diff. In short, if you need one car to do it all with practicality and comfort, I'd still put that as a potential yardstick.