RE: Ringside Seat: race cars vs road cars

RE: Ringside Seat: race cars vs road cars

Friday 4th May 2012

Ringside Seat: race cars vs road cars

The dangers of race-prepped cars sharing the same tarmac as road cars...



It doesn't matter if it's the Nurburgring on a public day or Knockhill on a trackday, there's always at least one race car out there with the road cars. Trying to rub doorhandles with your pride and joy, the same car you have to drive home, and they're more often-than not driven by fireproof-suited maniacs with laptimers stuck in the window.

So what's the story? Earlier this week the Nurburgring was closed after one such nomex'd numpty got a bit carried away during a public session on the Nordschleife. Not only were there several reports of him driving like a tit through the tourist traffic, but when the inevitable crash happened he ruined things for everybody by driving back onto the track and 'limping' the car home and over the line. Rather than stopping and warning others, this racing driver chose to drive the above-pictured wreck over 6km to the end of the lap whilst leaving a variety of both fluids and solid debris all over the line behind him.

Should he have driven it back? Nope...
Should he have driven it back? Nope...
Ridiculously over-zealous behaviour in a race, but absolutely deadly during the Nurburgring's public hour. With no flag marshals to warn the other drivers of the idiot ahead, the first warnings came as the front tyres hit coolant and washed-out toward the steel barriers.

Behind this guy there were two serious crashes, one involving a British biker (who's a friend of mine), before the volunteer marshals could respond and control the incident. Needless to say, the track was closed for the rest of the night and the German police were on the scene within minutes.

So what's the solution? Ban race cars? The Nurburgring staff already do their best, but this particular guy had done enough work for his BMW 325i car to pass as road-legal and carry numberplates. Indeed he was actually turned-around once by the yellow-vests, but had his day ban repealed by a higher authority. Somebody's regretting that decision, no doubt.

It's no use banning so-called race cars. Plenty of us build our track-going sport scars into machines that could easily go racing. And wherever there is 'cheap' track time both teams and racing drivers will find a way to get on to the track for a few laps of extra training, and who can blame them? Some race drivers just love to take their real racing car out and scalp some normal street cars. Trying to be the big fish in a small pond, it's an attitude thing.

The problem, as ever, is the driver and not the car. It's the racing driver who thinks that overtaking on any corner, any braking zone or any side is acceptable behaviour. It's the racing driver who presumes that if anybody hits their crash debris it will be "their problem and not mine".

An easy enough problem to solve on a trackday where there is a mandatory briefing before anybody takes to the track. But for public driving on the Nurburgring, with no briefings at all, it's just another risk you have to take.

So here's a hypothetical question for you PHers... If we take it that public driving on the 'ring is for street cars and not race cars, would the banning of rollcages, HANS devices and crash helmets during these hours make things better or worse?

Pics: www.ring-bilder.de


Author
Discussion

Output Flange

Original Poster:

16,965 posts

226 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
An idiot is an idiot in a race car, a road car or a bumper car.

The article just sounds bitter because your friend was involved. Had said car been a showroom-fresh Golf GTi, would you be moaning about racing drivers? Thought not.

Porkie

2,378 posts

256 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Output Flange said:
An idiot is an idiot in a race car, a road car or a bumper car.

The article just sounds bitter because your friend was involved. Had said car been a showroom-fresh Golf GTi, would you be moaning about racing drivers? Thought not.
I do see your point... but having been at the Ring quite alot I do think its a good discussion topic. I saw this few days ago on Dales facebook and was shocked at the selfishness and stupidity of the driver!

as he is german though I am sure it will be ok!

Imagine a brit doing it!

I would imagine we would need the SAS to break him out of a high security prison!



Graebob

2,172 posts

222 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Interesting discussion point, but some pretty biased reporting/commenting so far.

crocodile tears

755 posts

161 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all





Edited by crocodile tears on Friday 4th May 18:24

Some Gump

12,980 posts

201 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Sorry PH, this article isn't up to your usual standards. IMO the authour is influenced by it being his mate that suffered from some cock end's antics, and it comes accross in the article.

I've shared many a track day with racers. I don't see them as "nomex clad numpties", and they more often than not drive to a far better standard than "track day hero man". Sure, you ge the odd one and the liveried cars stick in memory, but sice I track a Caterham, I'm far, far more weary of Scooby / Evo running on the TC system than I would be of someone with a fully prepped M3.

Should race cars be banned? Course not. Should muppets stop being dicks? Yes.

PS - that was a road car with some stickers, not a race car.

vescaegg

27,677 posts

182 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Are lap timing devices not banned on the public days? Or are 'race' cars exempt?

As said above, being a race car shouldnt have anything to do with it. Yes they can probably go faster than others but some road cars can top over 200mph on the main straight no problem....

If they hit someone doing 200mph would it be a call to ban faster cars?

Think its basically impossible to ban anything due to idiot driving standards. The guy driving after the accident was the cause of all problems, not the car he was driving.

carinaman

23,187 posts

187 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
It seems like one of those many incidents where the actions of one individual spoils it for everyone else. frown

It reads like the driver was consistently behaving like a bit of a plonker so perhaps the ring governors should look at a three strikes and you're banned rule? 1. Driving like a prat. 2. Having an accident. 3. Driving the car back leaving debris that endangers others. Three strikes.

I am sure many of us look at ill advised driving at think those doing it should take their machines to the track if they want to treat public roads like their own private playgrounds. This is what happens when people do?

After Riggers' bit on the Autobahns I am wondering how this reflects on 'professional drivers', BMWs or Germans, but perhaps that's straying into sweeping generalisation territory.

Bucketeer

53 posts

210 months

Friday 4th May 2012
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Carried on for 6 km? Inexcusable. What a bell-end. Unfortunately people like that are all too prevelant these days.

carinaman

23,187 posts

187 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/25643/IMG_3771-...

Is he a Thompson Twins fan?

Perhaps their bedside manner is better than their trackside one?

EDLT

15,421 posts

221 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
With few marshals there is always the chance that someone will take the piss. This seems like a danger you have to accept if you go to the ring, especially as any attempt at controlling the place is fiercely resisted.

Also in before "blah blah too popular, hurr durr it's all Top Gear's fault"

MB 1

525 posts

200 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
I hold a race license, and agree with the first post that a tosser is a tosser.

TBH I find the worst / crazy drivers at the Ring are some of the locals in either pretty standard road cars or people in rental cars.

Don't bother with public Ring days anymore, too busy, too high risk.

hondafanatic

4,969 posts

216 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Some Gump said:
Sorry PH, this article isn't up to your usual standards. IMO the authour is influenced by it being his mate that suffered from some cock end's antics, and it comes accross in the article.

I've shared many a track day with racers. I don't see them as "nomex clad numpties", and they more often than not drive to a far better standard than "track day hero man". Sure, you ge the odd one and the liveried cars stick in memory, but sice I track a Caterham, I'm far, far more weary of Scooby / Evo running on the TC system than I would be of someone with a fully prepped M3.

Should race cars be banned? Course not. Should muppets stop being dicks? Yes.

PS - that was a road car with some stickers, not a race car.
I agree with you about the article's standards and the author.

This is just some bell end in car. Although It does have a full roll cage in it, so it's a little more than stickers. Obviously no idea on any other modifications, apart from the recent front end modification.

s4sturge

8 posts

218 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
What a hideously biased view on a very real problem. Its a driver thing not a car thing. A knob in a race car is a knob in a road car, and what's the wearing of sensible fire proof overalls got to do with it? Any road car with any kind of roll cage and harness takes a while to scramble out of and anyone thinking clearly would choose the right attire, what next ban people who wear crash hats? I drive a race car on track days because unsurprisingly its the best suited and safest car to be in on track, it doesn't mean I cause accidents or intimidate people, and I can genuinely say that the worst driving I've seen on track days has been from a small minority of guys trying to prove something in a road car.

bigblock

782 posts

213 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
I don't really know what the point of your article is, are you trying to say that cars driving faster than other cars (because they are, er, faster) is dangerous? Or that the fitting of safety devices and wearing a crash helmet makes any driver a mentaloid ?

A guy went to the ring drove like a tt, had an accident, caused an accident, and you think that this is down to the fact he was driving a pseudo racing car.

Why is it that when someone does something stupid your apparent reaction is to try and find something to ban rather than apportioning the blame squarely on the shoulders of the arse whose fault it was.

Porkie

2,378 posts

256 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
s4sturge said:
What a hideously biased view on a very real problem. Its a driver thing not a car thing. A knob in a race car is a knob in a road car, and what's the wearing of sensible fire proof overalls got to do with it? Any road car with any kind of roll cage and harness takes a while to scramble out of and anyone thinking clearly would choose the right attire, what next ban people who wear crash hats? I drive a race car on track days because unsurprisingly its the best suited and safest car to be in on track, it doesn't mean I cause accidents or intimidate people, and I can genuinely say that the worst driving I've seen on track days has been from a small minority of guys trying to prove something in a road car.
I sooooo want to agree with that I really do! but of all the really dangerous overtakes I have had done past me I can honestly say most of them were race cars and drivers. Maybe they just stick in my head more? maybe the fact I'm normally going pretty quick and it takes racecar and driver to overtake I dont know... Anyway I totally see your point. I wore overalls at last trackday at Ring. I have em so why not use em! long fast track would take ages for fire truck to get there.

I wouldnt wanna see race drivers get banned from tracks at all. Just treat them the same as anyone else, people that intimidate other drivers or drive dangerously should have that pointed out. Warned to calm down and then kicked off if reoffend.

I LOVE seeing proper racecars at tracks. MUCH more interesting to go around with. Had AWESOME fun with a Funcup beetle thing at Bedford once, Really evenly matched with my Exige. We had epic play! I was gutted to find it was diesel powered and on rubbish tyres as he was just as quick as me if not quicker! driver was lots of fun and totally gentlemanly and I learnt from following him around

Porkie

2,378 posts

256 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
bigblock said:
I don't really know what the point of your article is, are you trying to say that cars driving faster than other cars (because they are, er, faster) is dangerous? Or that the fitting of safety devices and wearing a crash helmet makes any driver a mentaloid ?

A guy went to the ring drove like a tt, had an accident, caused an accident, and you think that this is down to the fact he was driving a pseudo racing car.

Why is it that when someone does something stupid your apparent reaction is to try and find something to ban rather than apportioning the blame squarely on the shoulders of the arse whose fault it was.
He clearly says in article the problem is the car as always not the driver...

calm down!

its a point for discussion thats all!


At the Ring, briefings would not be feasable on TF days.... but with the small amount of people that turn up in a racecar with nomex and HANS on surely the yellow vests could have 30 second word in his ear 'we are watching you closely, this is NOT a race, overtake when safe, there are novices out there, NOT other racing drivers blah blah blah' or am I being silly?



Edited by Porkie on Friday 4th May 18:58

caine100

327 posts

205 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
This article reads like some Daily Mail-esque sensationalism focusing on an irrelevant point when what you should be doing is calling the driver a knobhead.

OllieC

3,816 posts

229 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
A poor article indeed.

As many have pointed out the problem is the driver not the car.

bigblock

782 posts

213 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
Porkie said:
bigblock said:
I don't really know what the point of your article is, are you trying to say that cars driving faster than other cars (because they are, er, faster) is dangerous? Or that the fitting of safety devices and wearing a crash helmet makes any driver a mentaloid ?

A guy went to the ring drove like a tt, had an accident, caused an accident, and you think that this is down to the fact he was driving a pseudo racing car.

Why is it that when someone does something stupid your apparent reaction is to try and find something to ban rather than apportioning the blame squarely on the shoulders of the arse whose fault it was.
He clearly says in article the problem is the car as always not the driver...

calm down!

its a point for discussion thats all!
You didn't read that before you posted it did you or maybe you do believe the "problem is always the car not the driver" in which case it might be a bit past your bedtime.


JMF894

6,138 posts

170 months

Friday 4th May 2012
quotequote all
This whole affair just backs up my reasons for never taking my pride and joy on a track day.

This incident was simply down to a selfish sausage munching chaffinch trying to prove his teutonic nads were bigger than everyone elses. The car he was driving makes no difference whatsoever.

That said, i hope you mate on the bike is ok

Jimbo