Offroad 4x4 drivers - slow the f**k down!

[Ari]

Oh so some people like offroady style 4x4's (talking about Discoverys, Mitsubishi Animals and Land cruisers, not Porsche Cayennes or Audi Quattros). And that's all fine if you need to tow or offroad or just want one.

But fer fecks sake, understand that it's significantly heavier than a normal car, quite a bit higher, and most of all, dynamically inferior.

Nothing makes me more nervous than driving along an A road or up a motorway in the rain with one of these things tucked up behind me like they're driving a normal car. Because I know that if something goes wrong and I have to brake really really hard, it'll go right through me or right over me.

I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't drive them, just that they should be made aware that they're not normal cars, that they won't stop or swerve like a normal car, and that they'll do way more damage when they hit something hard.

I think it's about time that they were restricted like goods vehicles to 60mph on motorways and 50mph on single carriageway roads. Then maybe people who genuinely need them or just want one can have one, no problem, but maybe those that choose them as a "lifestyle vehicle" or as a company car tax dodge might think twice about having one instead of a Five Series, but then driving it like it is a Five Series, right up behind other people at high speeds.

[rumple]

I agree, I get pissed off with em up me arse around town and in me way on the open road.
Funny though the only PH'r to introduce himself to me drove an animal, not all bad then

[TheHeretic]

Yeah, you tell then Ari! Your issue is tailgaters, not 4x4's. An A6 tailgaing an old mini is putting the mini in as much risk as the 4x4 is with you. You're just intimidated by their size.

[Big Rod]

I drive a 3.5 litre LWB Pajero. It's surprisingly quick for what it is and will happily bowl along at very illegal speeds if I wanted it to.

The brakes are outstanding and with its adjustable damping is quite capable on bends too.

OK, it's not a sports car, but it's nowhere near as ridiculous a propsition to drive it like a normal car as you make out.

I do tend not to tailgate though.

[Doshy]

I'm sure there were some stats out recently about big 4x4's getting more speeding tickets than any other vehicle (proportionately of course) Perhaps someone remembers this ?

[TheHeretic]

My 4x4 is about 300-400 KG's lighter than the OP's car.

[EDLT]

Ari said:

Oh so some people like offroady style 4x4's (talking about Discoverys, Mitsubishi Animals and Land cruisers, not Porsche Cayennes or Audi Quattros). And that's all fine if you need to tow or offroad or just want one.

But fer fecks sake, understand that it's significantly heavier than a normal car, quite a bit higher, and most of all, dynamically inferior.

Nothing makes me more nervous than driving along an A road or up a motorway in the rain with one of these things tucked up behind me like they're driving a normal car. Because I know that if something goes wrong and I have to brake really really hard, it'll go right through me or right over me.

I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't drive them, just that they should be made aware that they're not normal cars, that they won't stop or swerve like a normal car, and that they'll do way more damage when they hit something hard.

I think it's about time that they were restricted like goods vehicles to 60mph on motorways and 50mph on single carriageway roads. Then maybe people who genuinely need them or just want one can have one, no problem, but maybe those that choose them as a "lifestyle vehicle" or as a company car tax dodge might think twice about having one instead of a Five Series, but then driving it like it is a Five Series, right up behind other people at high speeds.

So a Land Rover Discovery should be limited to 50mph but a Porsche Cayenne shouldn't and tailgating at high speeds/in the rain is OK so long as you are in a 5-series and not a Land Cruiser?

[GhostDriver]

Its not just a 4x4 issue.
When Im in the Elise, I always keep an eye in my mirror, because I know full well that if I had to do an emergency brake, there is no way a eurobox will stop quicker than me. People dont seem to realise.

In fact its happened on the motorway and I was lucky to be able to pull on to the hard shoulder whilst breaking otherwise I wouldve been fooked.

[Ari]

EDLT said:

So a Land Rover Discovery should be limited to 50mph but a Porsche Cayenne shouldn't and tailgating at high speeds/in the rain is OK so long as you are in a 5-series and not a Land Cruiser?

I'm not talking about tailgating. I'm talking about drivers of old Discoverys (for instance) driving at speeds and braking distances that would be ok in a Five Series, but would cause real issues in the vehicle they're in.

[TheHeretic]

Ari said:

I'm not talking about tailgating. I'm talking about drivers of old Discoverys (for instance) driving at speeds and braking distances that would be ok in a Five Series, but would cause real issues in the vehicle they're in.

Looking in your garage, it seems you have never owned a 4x4...

[Ari]

TheHeretic said:

My 4x4 is about 300-400 KG's lighter than the OP's car.

Fancy putting them both through a 70mph full on emergency brake and lane change on a motorway and see which fares best?

It's not just about weight, it's about tyres and dynamics set up for offroading, and the height of the vehicles.

[Ari]

TheHeretic said:

Yeah, you tell then Ari! Your issue is tailgaters, not 4x4's. An A6 tailgaing an old mini is putting the mini in as much risk as the 4x4 is with you. You're just intimidated by their size.

I suspect that if the old Mini and the A6 both hit the brakes together at 70mph on the motorway, the A6 would stop faster and pull up short of the Mini.

Now put an old Land Cruiser behind the A6 and try it again...

That's the point I'm making.

Nothing wrong with Land Cruisers by the way, just the way some people choose them instead of cars, but then drive them like cars (in respect of speeds and stopping distances).

[Speedy11]

Ari said:

But fer fecks sake, understand that it's significantly heavier than a normal car, quite a bit higher, and most of all, dynamically inferior.

My significantly heavier Jeep is nearly is 300 kgs lighter than the current M5

Ari said:

I think it's about time that they were restricted like goods vehicles to 60mph on motorways and 50mph on single carriageway roads. Then maybe people who genuinely need them or just want one can have one, no problem, but maybe those that choose them as a "lifestyle vehicle" or as a company car tax dodge might think twice about having one instead of a Five Series, but then driving it like it is a Five Series, right up behind other people at high speeds.

But what about the Porsche Cayennes or Audi Quattros, Bentleys etc which you said don't count?

[Ari]

TheHeretic said:

Looking in your garage, it seems you have never owned a 4x4...

I'll remember that if one ever does go over/through me in a motorway crash, I'm sure it'll help.

[Ari]

Speedy11 said:

My significantly heavier Jeep is nearly is 300 kgs lighter than the current M5

So you reckon it'll out brake and out handle one in an emergency..?

[XDA]

Tbh, I'm seeing the exact opposite. Endless 4x4's doing a maximum of 50mph. Struggling with fuel costs perhaps?

[Ari]

Speedy11 said:

Ari said:

I think it's about time that they were restricted like goods vehicles to 60mph on motorways and 50mph on single carriageway roads. Then maybe people who genuinely need them or just want one can have one, no problem, but maybe those that choose them as a "lifestyle vehicle" or as a company car tax dodge might think twice about having one instead of a Five Series, but then driving it like it is a Five Series, right up behind other people at high speeds.

But what about the Porsche Cayennes or Audi Quattros, Bentleys etc which you said don't count?

Indeed. Because these vehicles are set up as road cars. A Porsche Cayenne would probably outbrake and out swerve my car if it had to!

No problem with vehicles that are set up to do so being driven sensibly quickly, just those that are not built for it being used that way anyway.

[EDLT]

Ari said:

EDLT said:

So a Land Rover Discovery should be limited to 50mph but a Porsche Cayenne shouldn't and tailgating at high speeds/in the rain is OK so long as you are in a 5-series and not a Land Cruiser?

I'm not talking about tailgating. I'm talking about drivers of old Discoverys (for instance) driving at speeds and braking distances that would be ok in a Five Series, but would cause real issues in the vehicle they're in.

From reading your first post is sounds like you are talking about tailgating, you just think it is a problem with the cars rather than the drivers.

Have you ever driven a Discovery, they drive much like a normal car which is why they became so popular in the first place.

[Ari]

EDLT said:

From reading your first post is sounds like you are talking about tailgating, you just think it is a problem with the cars rather than the drivers.

Have you ever driven a Discovery, they drive much like a normal car which is why they became so popular in the first place.

Yes, I've driven a Discovery, and a Freelander which was terrible!

Nope, my problem is with offroad vehicle drivers driving them at speeds and stopping distances that don't take into account the inferior dynamics of a vehicle set up for offroad work as well as road work.

Maybe the new Disco is better, but no way would the older one stop or swerve like a normal car, and it'll inflict much more weight much higher up in an impact.

[Doshy]

EDLT said:

From reading your first post is sounds like you are talking about tailgating, you just think it is a problem with the cars rather than the drivers.

Have you ever driven a Discovery, they drive much like a normal car which is why they became so popular in the first place.

But in an emergency situation they don't handle like a normal car. A modern disco maybe, but not one of the old rotting barges I see on the country lanes around here.