Has Intelligent Speed Assistance ruined new cars?
Discussion
I just took delivery of a new 2024 Peugeot 408. Nice-looking car, for a family wagon anyway, but I fear the Speed Limit Recognition (a.k.a. Intelligent Speed Assistance) is going to ruin my enjoyment of it.
For the avoidance of doubt, what I am talking about here is a system that, using a combination of a windscreen-mounted camera and sat nav, displays what it believes to be the current posted speed limit prominently on the digital dash, right between the rev counter and speedo, as a little graphic of a red and white speed limit roundel. Exceed the limit, and the little icon flashes red for 15 seconds and the car emits an audible warning (three bongs). The system doesn't physically slow the car, it just "reminds" you to slow down with visual and audible cues.
No worries, I thought, you can always turn it off, even if it means the hassle of having to do so at each engine start. WRONG! As far as I can work out (and I would LOVE to be corrected), you can turn the audible warning off, but not the visible flashing. This goes on for a full 15 seconds, right in your eyeline, every time you exceed a speed limit. Accelerate up to, say, 44 in a 40, it will flash for 15 seconds. It will then leave you in peace as you are clearly beyond redemption. But, slow to 35 for a hazard and accelerate back to 44, and it will flash for another 15 seconds. Change of limit and fail to slow immediately, another 15 seconds of flashing, and so on.
Even if you are a better man than me and stick to limits religiously, it will frequently fail to spot a limit change, meaning more (this time wholly unjustified) finger-wagging for another 15 seconds until it works out the correct limit.
All in all, it is making me want to torch the car, frankly. Except I can't, because it's a lease, so I guess I'm in for two years of behavioural correction treatment.
Is it just Peugeot that have implemented ISA in this way, or are other new cars similar? Is there really no way to disable it? Do people find that their brain filters it out after a while, or does it eventually crush your spirit and bring you into compliance?
For the avoidance of doubt, what I am talking about here is a system that, using a combination of a windscreen-mounted camera and sat nav, displays what it believes to be the current posted speed limit prominently on the digital dash, right between the rev counter and speedo, as a little graphic of a red and white speed limit roundel. Exceed the limit, and the little icon flashes red for 15 seconds and the car emits an audible warning (three bongs). The system doesn't physically slow the car, it just "reminds" you to slow down with visual and audible cues.
No worries, I thought, you can always turn it off, even if it means the hassle of having to do so at each engine start. WRONG! As far as I can work out (and I would LOVE to be corrected), you can turn the audible warning off, but not the visible flashing. This goes on for a full 15 seconds, right in your eyeline, every time you exceed a speed limit. Accelerate up to, say, 44 in a 40, it will flash for 15 seconds. It will then leave you in peace as you are clearly beyond redemption. But, slow to 35 for a hazard and accelerate back to 44, and it will flash for another 15 seconds. Change of limit and fail to slow immediately, another 15 seconds of flashing, and so on.
Even if you are a better man than me and stick to limits religiously, it will frequently fail to spot a limit change, meaning more (this time wholly unjustified) finger-wagging for another 15 seconds until it works out the correct limit.
All in all, it is making me want to torch the car, frankly. Except I can't, because it's a lease, so I guess I'm in for two years of behavioural correction treatment.
Is it just Peugeot that have implemented ISA in this way, or are other new cars similar? Is there really no way to disable it? Do people find that their brain filters it out after a while, or does it eventually crush your spirit and bring you into compliance?
I rented a Volvo with this system on my recent visit to the UK. It was mostly useful when in doubt of the limit. But, too often it was wrong. Bonging constantly because it thought I was in a 30 zone and it was 60. Overall, I decided to turn it off every time I drove.
There’s also the lane departure/auto steering. When on country roads it’s hopeless at best. On several occasions it tried to steer me into parked cars.
There’s also the lane departure/auto steering. When on country roads it’s hopeless at best. On several occasions it tried to steer me into parked cars.
These systems are all f
king awful. As suggested, try a piece of black tape over the display?
Someone I know took their new car back to the dealer to complain about the constantly flashing speed limit warning. The only solution the dealer could offer was to turn down the brightness on the display to make it slightly less annoying.
king awful. As suggested, try a piece of black tape over the display?Someone I know took their new car back to the dealer to complain about the constantly flashing speed limit warning. The only solution the dealer could offer was to turn down the brightness on the display to make it slightly less annoying.
We had these speed limit detectors on our hgv’s at work with the telematics recording speeding offences. After the first week and every driver having multiple speeding infringements they realised every time you went under a bridge on the motorway it would register you in the road above’s speed limit, or road along side, or side roads or pretty much any limit except the one you where driving on. It soon got turned off the telematics.
It’s similar on 24 Toyotas unfortunately.
Luckily I have a 23 where I can turn off the audible warnings (and visual too if I wanted) and they stay off permanently.
But 24 models reset everything when you turn them off, so bongs when the car thinks you are speeding when you aren’t.
A similar system, bongs when you first ‘exceed the limit’ and no more as long as you keep ‘speeding’ and don’t let your speed drop below what it thinks the limit is. Not a very safe system.
All new cars have to have them, but I expect manufacturers that have a good system will get more sales.
Luckily I have a 23 where I can turn off the audible warnings (and visual too if I wanted) and they stay off permanently.
But 24 models reset everything when you turn them off, so bongs when the car thinks you are speeding when you aren’t.
A similar system, bongs when you first ‘exceed the limit’ and no more as long as you keep ‘speeding’ and don’t let your speed drop below what it thinks the limit is. Not a very safe system.
All new cars have to have them, but I expect manufacturers that have a good system will get more sales.
Whataguy said:
It’s similar on 24 Toyotas unfortunately.
Luckily I have a 23 where I can turn off the audible warnings (and visual too if I wanted) and they stay off permanently.
But 24 models reset everything when you turn them off, so bongs when the car thinks you are speeding when you aren’t.
A similar system, bongs when you first ‘exceed the limit’ and no more as long as you keep ‘speeding’ and don’t let your speed drop below what it thinks the limit is. Not a very safe system.
All new cars have to have them, but I expect manufacturers that have a good system will get more sales.
My '24 work Hilux (all of 2 weeks old) has the audible warning permanently off and the visual warning doesn't flash, it just turns red but is pretty small and unobtrusive. You might be able to turn off the visual warning too, I haven't checked.Luckily I have a 23 where I can turn off the audible warnings (and visual too if I wanted) and they stay off permanently.
But 24 models reset everything when you turn them off, so bongs when the car thinks you are speeding when you aren’t.
A similar system, bongs when you first ‘exceed the limit’ and no more as long as you keep ‘speeding’ and don’t let your speed drop below what it thinks the limit is. Not a very safe system.
All new cars have to have them, but I expect manufacturers that have a good system will get more sales.
Similar to comments about other systems it's not very consistent or reliable, often misses signs (especially at night) or reads numbers on other signs and thinks that's the speed limit. The other day it was telling me the speed limit was 90km/h (actually 100km/h) because I passed a sign saying I was on highway number 90.
I also have the lane departure warning on lowest sensitivity or off and it remembers that setting too. You can set it to only an visual/audible warning without physical assist too.
Gary C said:
The wifes 2008 doesn't bong or flash , just shows a small image of the limit, which is lucky as it often gets it wrong, picking up side road limit signs etc.
That's not intelligent speed assistance, which has to warn the driver that they are exceeding the speed limit. My understanding is that ISA is only mandatory for new models introduced after July 2022 (which would exclude the 2008). From next month (July 2024) it will be mandatory for ALL new cars, so everyone buying a new car will be affected from next monthIt is permissible under EU type approval regs (also adopted, voluntarily, by the UK it seems) that ISA can switched off, but I guess different manufacturers may adopt different approaches to that, and Peugeot seem to have decided that only the audible warning can be switched off in the 408. I have played about with the options menus extensively and it seems to be impossible to turn off the 15 second flashing visual warning.
GravelBen said:
My '24 work Hilux (all of 2 weeks old) has the audible warning permanently off and the visual warning doesn't flash, it just turns red but is pretty small and unobtrusive. You might be able to turn off the visual warning too, I haven't checked.
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It might be different for commercial vehicles, but in the 24 Corolla and CHR it resets every time you start the car now. No matter what settings you have for bongs and visual warning, they are both reset to the default sound and visual warnings. .
Changeover seems to have been around January 24, mine was very late 23 so I was lucky as most people didn’t know this change was coming.
The speedometer on the Corolla is 5% out, so you couldn’t even drive at the real limit when it manages to read the signs correctly.
Edited by Whataguy on Monday 3rd June 06:07
Lil_Red_GTV said:
That's not intelligent speed assistance, which has to warn the driver that they are exceeding the speed limit. My understanding is that ISA is only mandatory for new models introduced after July 2022 (which would exclude the 2008). From next month (July 2024) it will be mandatory for ALL new cars, so everyone buying a new car will be affected from next month
It is permissible under EU type approval regs (also adopted, voluntarily, by the UK it seems) that ISA can switched off, but I guess different manufacturers may adopt different approaches to that, and Peugeot seem to have decided that only the audible warning can be switched off in the 408. I have played about with the options menus extensively and it seems to be impossible to turn off the 15 second flashing visual warning.
Thats what I mean, the wifes 2008 gets it wrong fairly often as it can see signs not on the road your actually driving on (it uses the cameras in the same manner), if it was the ISA it would drive me mad.It is permissible under EU type approval regs (also adopted, voluntarily, by the UK it seems) that ISA can switched off, but I guess different manufacturers may adopt different approaches to that, and Peugeot seem to have decided that only the audible warning can be switched off in the 408. I have played about with the options menus extensively and it seems to be impossible to turn off the 15 second flashing visual warning.
My car is from 2020 and the speed limit flashes at me in the cluster if I slightly exceed it (even though my speedometer over reads by about 5% according to Waze). It doesn’t bother me though, if anything it can be helpful on smart motorways as it does read the gantry changes which is helpful considering the amount of speed cameras around these days. (But, Yes I can use my eyes to read the gantry and do this myself)
The 2024 version of my car (which I drove as a courtesy car for a day) has an audible warning as well but it’s not too loud although is a low pitched groan which I thought was a weird grumbling mechanical sound at first. Probably can be coded out but it is annoying in car parks where the speed limit is posted as 5mph which is quick walking pace.
The 2024 version of my car (which I drove as a courtesy car for a day) has an audible warning as well but it’s not too loud although is a low pitched groan which I thought was a weird grumbling mechanical sound at first. Probably can be coded out but it is annoying in car parks where the speed limit is posted as 5mph which is quick walking pace.
I could turn it off permanently on the 2024 A and C Class I have had for rentals this year. All of the warnings, in fact.
The reason Peugeot have implemented it this way is that they are terrible at UX and the flashing isn’t a feature it’s probably the slow performance of the screen stuttering haha.
The reason Peugeot have implemented it this way is that they are terrible at UX and the flashing isn’t a feature it’s probably the slow performance of the screen stuttering haha.
Edited by Gibbler290 on Monday 3rd June 08:07
Well it does have Peugeot's i-cockpit (with the small wheel and instruments above the wheel), so I suppose I do have the option of setting the steering wheel in such a way as to block the instrument cluster altogether! Then I would know neither the speed limit nor my own speed!
I'm not sure the black electrical tape suggestion would work as it has a fancy dynamic 3D digital instrument screen, so the square of tape would be very obvious and look like a real bodge.
I think the best solution is probably to suffer it for two years and never buy or lease another 2024 onwards Peugeot ever again. At least not unless or until they change their system so that it can be fully switched off.
Perhaps older cars are the only way to be truly free!
I'm not sure the black electrical tape suggestion would work as it has a fancy dynamic 3D digital instrument screen, so the square of tape would be very obvious and look like a real bodge.
I think the best solution is probably to suffer it for two years and never buy or lease another 2024 onwards Peugeot ever again. At least not unless or until they change their system so that it can be fully switched off.
Perhaps older cars are the only way to be truly free!
I really don't ever want a car that has lane assist, intelligent speed assistance or Automatic Emergency Braking.
I have managed OK for the last 32 years without them, I really don't need them.
I assume these have been mandated for all the people who are more interested in playing with their phone or an iPad on the dash rather than driving?
I have managed OK for the last 32 years without them, I really don't need them.
I assume these have been mandated for all the people who are more interested in playing with their phone or an iPad on the dash rather than driving?
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