Is fuel economy blown way out of proportion?

[bp1000]

I run a v8 XFR and wife a rav4 diesel

I get 19-21mpg average and she gets 35mpg. This never really changes and both are a very respectable mix of dual carriageway, a-road and town. What i would call a proper average.

I get a lot of comments about running a v8, all centred around, "oh i bet that costs a lot in fuel"... well no, not really.

On 5k miles it is an extra £43 a month compared to the rav4. At 10k miles assuming longer journeys its an extra £64 a month or £204 in total for monthly fuel on the v8. Less than a sky subscription and about what some people spend on wine and alcohol per month. (the increase over the diesel that is, not the full amount)

If you take this increase in cost outside of motoring it seems to become a little more justifiable. Of course if you did high mileage or you had a strict budget you need to get as economical as possible.

But it seems to me mpg is blown way out of proportion and in peoples heads v8's seem to be prohibitively expensive to fuel. My 335d did 36mpg average and i've never driven a car that would do more than about 42mpg true mixed average. If you sit on the m-way all day a VAG diesel is going to give you nearer to 50mpg and your mileage probably does require you have a sensible car for the job.

It just amused me to hear a mum comment on my fuel usage when she was driving a 1.8 tonne diesel people carrier that doesn't get much more than 32mpg.

Depreciation eclipses the extra cost in fuel by quite some margin.

[bp1000]

V88Dicky said:

I find it strange that the same people who wouldn't bat an eyelid doing, say, 15k per year in a 50mpg car, simply can't believe that some people would do 7.5k per year in a 25mpg car.

Much sucking of air through teeth and rolling of eyes from them.

Wonderfully put!

I don't dispute if you do higher mileage swapping from an m5 to a frugal diesel is the right move but I'm struggling to understand why it was a brand new diesel that will loose 15k in 3 years.

I know in the skoda example there was a reason for wanting a car spec-ed exactly to the owners wishes. Seems similar to putting a price on the fun of a v8/v10 although the scale is different.

Buying an xfr would ring alarm bells on the depreciation front too. They do loose an awful lot, but I always buy 3-4 years old, with a manufacturers warranty. Staggeringly my fully loaded xfr has lost so much it was purchased at 35% its original list price. I still expect it to loose 2-3k per year.

Even if we consider running costs bought up in the overall picture, I have a 3 year jaguar service plan worth £747 so my yearly servicing is £249 which includes MOTs. Tyres are £215 a piece, tax yes £490, insurance suprisingly cheap at £362 p/a.

I'm paying a lot less than someone financing a 30k brand new diesel, even with fuel. But people focus so much on the mpg number.

I do feel its straying from the issue slightly as we know brand new v old has been done to death.

But considering that, a supposedly money pit really isn't much more costly than your typical family diesel, even more so when you are talking about a slightly older v8 motor.

This all goes out the window when you buy a new 72k xfr or m3.

When you really work it out you realise 21mpg v 35mpg, not such a great deal. The rav4 has already lost 7k in 1 year, but its about £50 cheaper on fuel. People see that as a real money saving, yet my xfr will probably loose 3k this next year.

If I needed to do high miles again I would sell the xfr and buy a 4-5k audi a4 1.9tdi and another e46 m3 for the weekend

[bp1000]

Engineer1 said:

ATTAK Z said:

bp1000 said:

................ Depreciation eclipses the extra cost in fuel by quite some margin.

This ^^^^ is true

FFS you purchase the car, depreciation isn't a weekly payment fuel is, if you keep the car till it is scrap or you die then the depreciation is irrelevant.
I've just bought a Seat Ibiza Ecomotive because the repair costs on my current car are too high, I suspect it's hit the run of repairs and replacement parts, its 9 years old and doen 114k miles so is in need of a change.
I opted for the eco model as the mpg is high enough that it should save atleast a tank a month if not 2 and these should help fund the cost to change.

You've missed the point we are making

Depreciation IS a weekly payment, or a payment you don't see every time you drive.

Even your second hand seat Ibiza has it.

But of course you are right depreciation won't affect you providing this is the last car between now and death.

If you decide to swap it for a car of equivelant value in 10 years time the money has to come from somewhere.

[bp1000]

If you do high mileage, 15k, 20k, 30k like some of the figures quoted here, of course, it makes sense to buy a similarly price economical diesel that will do 50mpg.

Only time it's a bit crazy is if you go from an old-ish petrol that will do 30mpg and won't depreciate much to a brand new 50mpg diesel costing 30k purely to save on your monthly fuel bill.


My main point was people who drove petrols who were willing to swap cars just to save £40 - £60 a month (not factoring in cost to change, depreciation, diesel maintenance etc). And my point that on 5k miles the difference between a diesel family car and a v8 wasn't as much as you think.

Edited by bp1000 on Tuesday 2nd April 18:00

[bp1000]

Interest points raised from observations, i know it has been raised in the past.

That is essentially, why do people with fast cars seem to drive slowly.

I had a day trip out this easter weekend and i was passed by quite a few cars whilst driving my XFR. I had cruise set to around the limit lets say, others were clearly doing 80-90mph. Maybe it was their observation too that they would say, look at him going so slowly in that car, he's driving for economy.

I simply find long straight motorway driving quite boring and the XFR has automatic cruise control so you set a speed and it accelerates and brakes when necessary.

When i get to the other end, in this case the roads around Ashbourne i put it into sport mode and it gets plenty of beans and returns around 12mpg.

So i admit, i'm half thinking, whilst this motorway journey is pretty boring and non eventful sticking to the speed limit and going gently will offset some of the lunacy at the other end.

But i can't help but think that if some of you passed me that day, your observation might have been he's driving slowly for economy. Almost expecting me to be the fastest one in the outside lane.


I do this because i personally see no need to go way over the speed limit on a long straight road. I just sit back and relax and have fun either end. Plus it does seem like a bit of a waste of fuel.

If you were doing 50-65mph on the m-way it's kind of a different story.

[bp1000]

gizlaroc said:

A new car can be far cheaper than running an old one.

Someone was saying the other day that he is contract hiring a Nissan Juke, £660 deposit and then £110 a month for 24 months, including vat.
The 1.6 petrol is not quick, but refined and is returning and average of 38mpg mostly round town.

Compared to his 7 year old 3 series that is still loosing £50 a month, costing around £800 a year to keep on the road over the last 3 years and it was only returning 26mpg.
All in all he reckons the new car is cheaper and with no concerns over hidden bills etc.

The better consumption is just one piece of the overall ownership that keeps costs down.

It's a good example that might work - I do see that keeping the Beemer is still 15% cheaper to run each year if it really does need £800 worth of work.

That's excluding fuel, if his town is quoted maybe he is doing shorter journeys and low ish mileage which would make the difference quite small.

However there is nothing wrong with fancying a change, in your mates scenario if the BMW really is costing £800 every year there isn't much in it. Certainly beats someone trading their car for a brand new diesel and paying double, even triple on the lease.

[bp1000]

jones325i said:

I think it is blown out of proportion by some. My father in law for instance is bloody obsessed with mpg. He does less than 10k miles a year and drives like an old fart, but insists on 50 to 60 mpg.

I get more like 25mpg from my v8, which I actually think is great value. But if I was doing 15k + a year I would have to think twice. I accept the costs as I see the car as my main hobby. But if I was sitting in it on the motorway everyday I know that the fuelling costs would annoy me. As it is, it's done 10k in the last 12 months and hasn't been painful on the wallet. Wife and I lift share in the week in her car which helps a lot.

It's done most of it's depreciating with the previous owner and anyway I intend to keep it a looong time. And being a petrol, I'm hoping it will continue to be very reliable.

Prior to the 550i, I ran an E36 325i for 10 years and 100,000 miles (took it to 195k). I honestly believe that I saved a lot of money compared to chopping and changing like many people do, even at 32mpg max, and enjoyed almost every mile.

Perfect example

Your father in law is entitled to do whatever he wants. I dont know why he is obsessed with MPG, perhaps its a money thing, to spend less on fuel. But at less than 10k miles per year he's saving himself peanuts compared to if he was driving your v8. It's going to be around £25 a month.

I presume he's got some type of ecoboost ecotech blue motion hybrid type car. Likelihood is he had to buy fairly new if not brand new. If for example he ran your car, it would cost him £900 extra in fuel over 3 years. The depreciation on his newer eco box its going to be way way higher.

Of course this argument falls down if he's driving a nice 1.9tdi VAG powered car but people who buy newer fuel efficient cars to get 10-20mpg more are bonkers in my opinion.

Certain situations work, if i needed to sell my v8 if i started to do high miles i would buy an older 1.9tdi. However as pointed out, not exactly like for like on space but the nissan juke is a cheap finance option where swapping isn't really costing that much more, even funding the depreciation.

My point is only applicable to people who focus solely on MPG and buy cars because they need something more efficient so they save £50 a month, completely missing the depreciation.

I buy whatever i fancy, i did buy a 335d but only chose it over the 335i because i fancied trying a diesel and it drove very well, loved the low end grunt it was a change. I try to buy sensibly as i consider depreciation but i buy whatever i fancy driving.

Edited by bp1000 on Thursday 11th April 13:59