Why do you hate the electric car

[McWigglebum4th]

I am curious to know why folk have such an utter hatred of the whole idea behind the electric car.

Why are they so angry about the idea that some day my crappy little petrol sipping shopping trolley will be replaced by one powered by electrons?

Do they really want the last gallon of petrol in the world to be used taking granny to the shops?

[McWigglebum4th]

bodhi said:

Simple, they're all tedious as fk and the owners are smug pious tts I'd really rather not associate with. They really do seem to be the next big step in turning cars into household appliances (they even sound like fridges), which is not why I got into cars in the first place.

behold the majesty of the nissan mica K11

Excuse me a minute

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

Max_Torque said:

But that is only because you are applying your existing knowledge and expectations of IVE engineed vehicles to EV's. You consider ICE refuelling, but really, the only reason it needs to be fast is because you have to go somewhere specific to do it, and you only "refuel" when a light comes on.

I may be using existing knowledge, but to be fair that is the current limitation of the technology and nobody can foresee when there will be an unknown breakthrough.

Personally I'm all for electric power and in things like RC planes and cars it's certainly the way to go and far superior to the IC ones IMO.

But for personal transport I think it is different. We don't always have time to plan ahead and it's just far too easy for things to happen that mean you are reactive (going and filling up when the light comes on) rather than proactive. IC engines give you both options, EV's don't.

Max_Torque said:

EV's aren't really like that. The vast majority of people spend no more than 2hrs a day in their cars, leaving 22 left to recharge it! Because you can install a recharging station at home, you don't wait till it's "empty" to recharge, you just leave it plugged in.

If you note, this was one of my points in my earlier post (although not the part about calling you an idiot).

But the thing is, some people do spend more than 2 hours a day driving. Hence why I hate the blanket view it's such a good idea for everyone.

And critically and most importantly - NOT everyone can have a recharging station at home. Lots and lots and lots of people don't have off street parking. Which makes this completely unviable. And many people live in flats or park in areas that simply are either unsuitable or far too costly to install enough public charging points.

Max_Torque said:

Personally, i like to get a good 8hrs sleep every night, plenty of time for my car to top itself up!

And what if your car is parked 50 yards down the road? And chances are you won't be able to park in the same place tomorrow?

Max_Torque said:

Fast charging is only really useful for those unexpected trips or occasions (and these do happen) but the current crop of EVs are starting to offer 30min "fast" charges in emergencies. etc

Umm 30 min for how much juice though? I can fast charge lead acid 12v batteries, but 30 mins of charge time really isn't a lot of amps. Same is true with my LiPo, LiFePO4 and Li-ion ICR and IMR cells.

And while I'm sure range will continue to increase on EV's, although part of this is just bigger capacity batteries, which will then need a longer charge time... But unexpected things can happen a lot, be it an emergency (someone hospitalised/in an accident but you can't go to them as the car still needs another 4 hours of charge first). Or something simple like forgetting to get some bread, but the car is flat and by the time it's charged the shops will be shut.

Max_Torque said:

The issue really is just one of familiarity. We have all spent the last 50 years driving ICE engined cars, and have adapted to them. We will just have to adapt to a slightly different way of thinking that's all!

Adapting is fine, so long as it isn't a backwards step. Start removing and reducing ability and function, and it's then a no brainier that it likely isn't the solution, just a compromise.

Most of you points work on the assumption that now that the selling of EVs make petrol cars instantly vanish

Have a life where you can't plan ahead then buy a petrol car

Have a life where you drive 18 hours a day buy a diesel

Have a house with no charging buy a petrol car



As to EVs being a backward step if you think that buy a petrol car

However if you think of it as a backwards step would you dishwasher be improved by needing to be taken to the shop once a week to refill the soap?

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

-how EV is touted as the future by prats who forget that many people don't live in a city and do need to do more than 6 miles a day.

I love this concept that everyone either lives within 3 miles of a city centre in a 28 floor flat or they live over 50 miles from a city centre



I live 23 miles from a city centre and have 2 acres of land and parking on the drive for about 30 cars should i want to.

Am i unique?

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I love this concept that everyone either lives within 3 miles of a city centre in a 28 floor flat or they live over 50 miles from a city centre



I live 23 miles from a city centre and have 2 acres of land and parking on the drive for about 30 cars should i want to.

Am i unique?

You certainly aren't representative of most people.

So you think that most people live within 3 miles of a town centre or over 30 miles away

So why does no one live 3 to 30 miles from a town centre?

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

So you think that most people live within 3 miles of a town centre or over 30 miles away

So why does no one live 3 to 30 miles from a town centre?

I honestly don't know what you are either asking or talking about. All I said was that many people do not have off road parking, you came back willy waving that you have 2 acres and can park 30 cars.

Yes many people don't have offroad parking

However the normal argument against EVs is they are fine for folk who only have to drive 6 miles a day but living in a city they have no parking and it is completely useless for anyone who lives outside a city as they don't have enough range for the daily commute.

I was merely pointing out i live in the countryside and have a daily commute of 46 miles and i am far from unique.

[McWigglebum4th]

Technomatt said:

Unfortunately the EV doesn’t operate in a free market capitalist society. It only survives due to Govt interference, huge financial grants, subsidies, public funded infrastructure and legislation.

As a stand alone product, it would never survive on its own merits. Why, because the few advantages it offers are seriously outweighed by its significant extra disadvantages.

You go and buy one, but don’t be surprised with those continuing minimal EV sales and the huge majority of the buying public placing their cash in something more capable, effective and flexible.

If it wasn't for government interference then the fossil fueled car might not be so expense to run and seriously flawed in normal (real world) useage where people are using cars designed to do 600 miles a day to do 6.

Do 6 miles a day of stop start traffic in a modern diesel and it might last 2 years before expiring at the side of the road in an orgy of flashy lights and fault codes as its fart filter is completely blocked

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

But they will always be a compromise.

Show me a car which isn't a compromise in some way

[McWigglebum4th]

300bhp/ton said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Do 6 miles a day of stop start traffic in a modern diesel and it might last 2 years before expiring at the side of the road in an orgy of flashy lights and fault codes as its fart filter is completely blocked

Do you actually believe that? I find it quite astonishing if you do, and rather disconcerting.

I firmly belive that

Do 3 miles at a time at low speed and low power and your diesel will be producing max soot and it will never get hot enough to clean out its fart filter.

And don't say no one would do that as my wife works with someone who is changing to a diesel to cut down on her fuel costs

She does less than a 1 mile a day driving to the office

She walks home at lunch time to feed her cat

[McWigglebum4th]

moreflaps said:

Such figures are often quoted but completely bogus. Proper accounting shows that electric cars actually consume MORE energy than modern efficient ICE's.

Read this carefully: http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/2011/08/mpg-fo...


Cheers

Ah magic petrol

I love magic petrol

I wish i could get a source of magic petrol

If i had a magic petrol machine i'd run a V12


What is magic petrol?

It is the petrol that magically appears in the petrol stations tanks. No drilling, no refining, no transport it just magically appears.

[McWigglebum4th]

900T-R said:

McWigglebum4th said:

It is the petrol that magically appears in the petrol stations tanks. No drilling, no refining, no transport it just magically appears.

There are simply moronic figures for the well-to-tank part of the equation being bandied around by people with an agenda - in truth it's about 20-40 g/km for an average sort of car; say about 20-25 per cent of the CO2 emissions caused by burning the fuel in an ICE.

I think it is imposible to measure accurately

Well one

In the north sea when they use gas from the well to pump thousands of tons of sea water down the well to push the oil out and it is then transported by pipline to an oil terminal where it is loaded into a ship and then taken to the refinery

Well two

It comes out of the well under natural pressure and it is piped directly to the refinery

[McWigglebum4th]

odyssey2200 said:

a 400 mile EV may never come, without the missing miraculous leap in technology that keeps getting referred to, and even if it did , how long would the recharge time be, or are we dependant on another miracle for that as well?

As Technomatt pointed out earlier, why should a punter pay more for a car that delivers so much less with added potential inconvenience?

Please tell me....

You can do 400 miles without getting your arse out of the driving seat

Tesla has battery swap working and it is faster then refilling a petrol car and you can do it from the warm and dry of your car.

Install enough of them and your endurance will be the problem not the car

[McWigglebum4th]

odyssey2200 said:

WHEN an EV is as good, convenient and as flexible as an ICE then I will reassess my opinion.
Until then they are an over expensive, under performing offering which is totally unsuitable.

Why pay more for less?

Convinence is a very personnel thing


While you believe stopping once a week at the idiot shop to refill with fuel might be a great convenient to you it is not such a joyful thing for me.


My commute takes me past exactly zero petrol stations and the ones that are near my daily commute are horrible.


In the winter i plug my landrover in everynight because it has a engine heater.


It really isn't a huge chore and i would find that more convenient then going to the idiot shop on a weekly basis

[McWigglebum4th]

odyssey2200 said:

sawman said:

I was in a vauxhall garage the other day, in the showroom they had an ampera, which I feel quite warm to - I think it looks decent and seems well kitted, plus its an electric car that you dont have to worry about the range. When I got home I popped the details into my employers lease car scheme website and the monthly charge turned out to be nearly £800 per month as a salary sacrifice, including insurance and maintenance, maybe this explains why I havenet seen any on the road.

you do have to worry about range as the ICE will not generate enough power to cover the battery depletion.
It's not like a train where all the usage is covered by the generator.

It will run flat and need plugging in.

You do know that the ampera can actually clutch the engine in to drive the wheels in some circumstances

Also the weedy little engine produces 99Bhp

Which might just be enough to get it moving at 30 plus mph

[McWigglebum4th]

odyssey2200 said:

So Vauxhall says not, buy you know better?

Chevvy site says

Named 2012 Car of the Year, Volt is neither a hybrid nor a battery electric vehicle. It’s a pioneering Extended Range Electric Vehicle (or E-REV). Powered electrically 100% of the time, Volt’s Voltec® electric drive unit keeps going when its lithium-ion battery is depleted, thanks to its on-board petrol powered generator, extending its range to over 300 miles. And when the generator activates, you probably wouldn’t even notice.

Which does kind of go against what you said here

odyssey2200 said:

you do have to worry about range as the ICE will not generate enough power to cover the battery depletion.
It's not like a train where all the usage is covered by the generator.

It will run flat and need plugging in.

But moving away from marketing guff

http://gm-volt.com/2012/02/24/watching-the-volts-4...

this seems to show the ICE can drive the wheels

Edited by McWigglebum4th on Friday 13th December 15:57

[McWigglebum4th]

Woo hoo



http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I hope it will be peaceful