Garages Ripping People off, or trying to
Discussion
What is it these days with garages? I know there will always be good ones and bad ones, but it seems like it's almost endemic these days, with trying to add stuff that doesn't really need doing.
Yesterday I took my Mercedes E Class (2015 vintage) to a local garage as the brake pad sensor warning had gone off.
I don't take it to a main stealer as the value doesn't warrant it. And I know their labour costs!
It was the first time I'd taken it to this particular garage as it was convenient to my office. I can change disks and pads but I figured for 150-200 quid it would save me the bother.
Checks the car in, 30 minutes later get a call, "your car needs discs and pads all round and new hand brake shoes on the rear as well as the sensors, your pads are about 90% worn all round".
To do that lot it'll be £809.77.
I said "really? that's strange as I checked the discs and pads at the weekend and the rears had more than 50% of the pad left, and the discs, albeit had a slight lip on them, but nowhere near the point of needing replacing".
Garage: "yeah, but that's the outside, they're worn badly on the inside".
Me: "Can you check if the sensor wire is broken on both sides or just the one, as I think the pads have plenty of life in them as well at the front" (knowing full well there's only one sensor at the front).
So he calls me back and says, "the sensor wire on the drivers side is intact, so the sensor is activated as the pads are worn. As I said before, the pads are 90% worn" (I was advised by a Merc mechanic that the sensor is activated at about 80% worn).
I said "thanks, but as the cost is quite large I'll do them myself".
I pick up my car and the wheels haven't been off (they never even asked where the locking wheel nuts were), I can only assume that they shone a torch on the pads and figured that I should have them all changed.
The ironic thing is, as my car is an auto, I never use the parking brake, and haven't in the 3 years I've had the car, so how the brake shoes could be worn I don't know! Especially they wouldn't be able to check them without taking the wheels off.
We had another garage recent try and charge 4 hour labour for changing the rear spring on the missus ML. When Mercedes themselves took 20 minutes to do the other side previously.
Is it a sign of the times? everyone is hard up and is trying to make more money off those who can pay, or am I just unlucky?
Will get the wheels off my car at the weekend and check myself and order the pads (and maybe discs and brake shoes) and spend a few hours changing them.
Even if my car does need all those parts (highly unlikely) I'll still be saving myself 400 quid in labour costs.
Which again is excessive. Even at £100 an hour changing that lot won't take 4 hours!
I believe their labour cost is £75 per hour, so they're charging me for almost 5 1/2 hours labour!
Rant over.
Yesterday I took my Mercedes E Class (2015 vintage) to a local garage as the brake pad sensor warning had gone off.
I don't take it to a main stealer as the value doesn't warrant it. And I know their labour costs!
It was the first time I'd taken it to this particular garage as it was convenient to my office. I can change disks and pads but I figured for 150-200 quid it would save me the bother.
Checks the car in, 30 minutes later get a call, "your car needs discs and pads all round and new hand brake shoes on the rear as well as the sensors, your pads are about 90% worn all round".
To do that lot it'll be £809.77.
I said "really? that's strange as I checked the discs and pads at the weekend and the rears had more than 50% of the pad left, and the discs, albeit had a slight lip on them, but nowhere near the point of needing replacing".
Garage: "yeah, but that's the outside, they're worn badly on the inside".
Me: "Can you check if the sensor wire is broken on both sides or just the one, as I think the pads have plenty of life in them as well at the front" (knowing full well there's only one sensor at the front).
So he calls me back and says, "the sensor wire on the drivers side is intact, so the sensor is activated as the pads are worn. As I said before, the pads are 90% worn" (I was advised by a Merc mechanic that the sensor is activated at about 80% worn).
I said "thanks, but as the cost is quite large I'll do them myself".
I pick up my car and the wheels haven't been off (they never even asked where the locking wheel nuts were), I can only assume that they shone a torch on the pads and figured that I should have them all changed.
The ironic thing is, as my car is an auto, I never use the parking brake, and haven't in the 3 years I've had the car, so how the brake shoes could be worn I don't know! Especially they wouldn't be able to check them without taking the wheels off.
We had another garage recent try and charge 4 hour labour for changing the rear spring on the missus ML. When Mercedes themselves took 20 minutes to do the other side previously.
Is it a sign of the times? everyone is hard up and is trying to make more money off those who can pay, or am I just unlucky?
Will get the wheels off my car at the weekend and check myself and order the pads (and maybe discs and brake shoes) and spend a few hours changing them.
Even if my car does need all those parts (highly unlikely) I'll still be saving myself 400 quid in labour costs.
Which again is excessive. Even at £100 an hour changing that lot won't take 4 hours!
I believe their labour cost is £75 per hour, so they're charging me for almost 5 1/2 hours labour!
Rant over.
Gavin0478 said:
I would advise that you will need new handbrake shoes as you often find with drum in disc brakes that the handbrake shoes crumble when you remove the rear discs and the adjuster mechanism can be a pain too as you have admitted you hardly use the handbrake.
Yes, I've heard that it's prudent to replace the handbrake shoes at the same time as the discs. Again, not really a tricky job either. The thing is, the discs don't need replacing. and the pads have 50% life in them!
lornemalvo said:
I think that when garages blatantly lie and, for example, try to sell new brake pads etc when not needed it is as fraudulent as someone hacking your bank account. Most local authorities have MOT testing stations and if we had a proper country in which things work they could be utilised by consumers, in cases of doubt, for a second opinion. They could liaise with local authority Trading Standards and when it's confirmed that a garage has attempted a ripoff, Trading Standards and the police should prosecute for fraud. Garages should also have a licence to operate, given they work on safety critical equipment, which could be removed, perhaps for a second offence or for unsafe, shoddy work. Sadly, we don't have a proper country any more and it's like the wild west for all sorts of thieves and ripoff merchants. I feel for the elderly and those who have no idea about mechanical issues. They are like the injured wildebeest at the back pof the herd.
Totally agree. On a slightly separate note, my mother in law had signed up to have an air source heat pump installed at the cost of 14 grand a few years ago and paid a £800 deposit after being given the hard sell by the company who installed her solar panels (that's a story for a whole new thread).
I looked at the figures and worked out that it would be 37 years before she would actually break even based on her energy consumption.
With her being 72 at the time I suggested that she'd never see any savings from it so it was utterly pointless.
So my wife rang the company up and told them she'd changed her mind and that she wanted the deposit back.
At first they refused and then said we have to keep £200 for admin, then were reminded about Trading Standards cooling off periods, and reluctantly agreed to refund the lot.
Even arguing with my wife about the fact that the return on investment was much quicker than 37 years! Their figures suggested between 16 & 29 years!
Literally these guys are con men and fraudsters who should be investigated by the police.
But the police are too busy going after people who have said hurty words to someone on Facebook!
donkmeister said:
OP, I've had a caliper seize in such a way that the outer pad looked new whilst the inner pad was worn right down. Would have been obvious even with the wheel on if lifted on a 2-post but not from a driveway inspection.
I'd say do it yourself. If you are worried about the physical exertion you can rent ramps by the hour in a lot of areas that will make it easier.
I'm taking all the wheels off over the weekend to have a good look for myself and order whatever parts I need. I'd say do it yourself. If you are worried about the physical exertion you can rent ramps by the hour in a lot of areas that will make it easier.
I have all the tools but don't really have the time to do the jobs myself. But I'm making an exception on this one.
Be interested to know how a calliper seizes and only wears on one side of the disc though.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Personally I would be changing those disks given the amount of lip versus the thickness of the disk itself. Pads are about 60%-70% done IMO.
As EPC have 40% off Brembo at the minute I probably will. My point was that the garage I took it to said the pads were 90% worn all round!
When clearly they’re not!
stevemcs said:
I wouldn't be suprised if the inner pad was close to 1.5mm, the inner pads are usually half the thickness of the outer pad. Discs are knackered too.
If anyone ever has any queries about the MOT then use the contest form available from the station, park the car up and wait for them to come out. Believe it or not we don't want the additional work.
Should taken a pic of the inside but the pad was almost identical in thickness as the outside. If anyone ever has any queries about the MOT then use the contest form available from the station, park the car up and wait for them to come out. Believe it or not we don't want the additional work.
Sheepshanks said:
Why is so little wear allowable? Appreciate you don’t want to have wafer thin discs but building in only a couple of mm seems bonkers, not to mention wasteful.
I've just found this. WHEN SHOULD BRAKE DISCS BE CHANGED?
The crucial aspect with brake discs is the so-called "minimum thickness". This is the minimum dimension that every brake disc must have and which is specified by the manufacturer. It is abbreviated to "MIN TH" and can be found on the rim or at the chamber of the brake disc. Two to three millimetres of wear are generally acceptable.
Natural brake disc wear is relatively easy to detect. When a disc is worn, a burr can be felt at the rim, as the disc only becomes worn where the brake pad is applied. The more pronounced the burr, the worse the disc wear is. Experts use special instruments to measure the thickness of the brake discs.
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