Carrera 4 or 2 Maual or Auto/triptronic
Discussion
The search go,s on.
Im after a Carrera 2 manual but im seeing a lot more trip 4,s for sale.
I thought go for the Carrera 2 as its less drag less wear and tear and dare i say it more fun.
Same reason i wanted the manual box less to go wrong.
I had a smg box in a M3 few years ago witch once i you got used to it was great, When it was working!
I don't want to go through the hassle not to mention the expense of that again.
So who has what 2 or 4 wheel drive auto or manual?
Im after a Carrera 2 manual but im seeing a lot more trip 4,s for sale.
I thought go for the Carrera 2 as its less drag less wear and tear and dare i say it more fun.
Same reason i wanted the manual box less to go wrong.
I had a smg box in a M3 few years ago witch once i you got used to it was great, When it was working!
I don't want to go through the hassle not to mention the expense of that again.
So who has what 2 or 4 wheel drive auto or manual?
My previous Porsche was a 996 3.4 Carrera 2, 6 seed manual, with mo30 suspension and factory GT3 aero kit great fun car, only downside was it was a bit hard and a bit skittish on uneven surfaces but you got used to that.
Biggest problem I had was when I was selling it on, had a few people view then go and search the internet about the reported m96 engine problems and it scared them off, my car had 78k on the clock with good service history, no obvious signs of problems but no history of a rebuild either, in the end I had to take a car in p/x and sell that on separately.
Biggest problem I had was when I was selling it on, had a few people view then go and search the internet about the reported m96 engine problems and it scared them off, my car had 78k on the clock with good service history, no obvious signs of problems but no history of a rebuild either, in the end I had to take a car in p/x and sell that on separately.
Edited by cbgt3 on Friday 10th October 13:01
Tiptronic/Manual is the BIGGEST differentiating factor when purchasing a 996. It is the factor that will make the biggest difference to the overall experience.
Make sure you try both before committing.
(For what it's worth, I'm on my second Manual 996).
With refgards to C2 vs C4, this is very much a personal preference. Personally, I would never have a 4wd track car, but for a quick road car, 4wd certainly has its place, especially on a 911 where 95% of the torque is to the rear under normal circumstances.
This was posted on 911uk a while back, and pretty much summed it up for me.
Make sure you try both before committing.
(For what it's worth, I'm on my second Manual 996).
With refgards to C2 vs C4, this is very much a personal preference. Personally, I would never have a 4wd track car, but for a quick road car, 4wd certainly has its place, especially on a 911 where 95% of the torque is to the rear under normal circumstances.
This was posted on 911uk a while back, and pretty much summed it up for me.
911 uk said:
Always a little wary of RWD, all very well that you can hang the tail out and drift on a track, but sadly oil, water, ice, leaves, cold tires and basically the unforeseen tends to result in greater effects the more powerful the RWD car. Add the historically romantic, but ultimately when the laws of physics are considered, non-ideal engine positioning of the 911, and I am afraid I go for the C4.
Some people say benefits only in wet, but anytime rear exhibits traction loss will force drive to front. I have previously managed to get a couple of C2 sideways in the (cold) dry and they were fully PSM'd 997s. However, touch wood, never lost a Turbo or C4. Somehow, I want my idea of a "Hedge Fund" to remain the perceived reason for global economic crashes, not the funds needed to fix wayward C2 crashes.
The C4 benefits from slightly more weight over the front wheels.
The marginally better weight distribution (the extra 55kgs is forward biased) - 40:60 vs 38:62 - brings a preferable steering response in my opinion.
However, 55KGs is not that much heavier, as this is approx the same as a full tank of fuel - ie an empty C4 weights less thans a full C2.
In the real world with loose surfaces, leaves and wet, 0-60 mph should favour the C4 as it can put all its power down without loss of traction.
The C4 is 95% the same as a C2 during balanced driving (only 5% drive to front wheels). Bear in mind, during normal driving with only 5% torque to front wheels, it is not a "hot hatch" torque steer scenario (5% = putting down roughly 7 lbft through the width of each front tire).
You get PSM (Porsche Stability Management) as standard on C4s, which you can switch off if you don't like or need (ie for track days etc), but if it isn't fitted to a C2 you obviously cannot turn on!
On the tires front, ok do you lose the ability to "light up the rear tires", but the AWD means, if anything the tires are worn out slower overall.
Again comparing early cars, C4s all had eGas drive-by-wire which allows easy cruise control upgrade if nothing else (also more advanced engine management).
With regard the boot space. Firstly, it's a sports car not a Volvo estate, secondly, erm, rear boot, two rear seats and folding seat backs, so in a straight competition with Ferrari 360 the Porker wins the B&Q and dog transport challenge hands down!
Seriously, though, the C2 has it's inflated spare wheel and toolkit vertical, so actual front to back dimensions are almost identical. The C4 has it's tool kit and deflated spare wheel in the boot well. Ok so you loose out on height, but the average squashy bag, or washing bucket (!) is alot shorter (the C2 boot is actually quite deep). So the headroom would be wasted any way, unless you planned to squash one and half bags in it.
The C4 has the same torsionally stronger and stiffer front chassis, suspension mounts and body structures as the GT3. Ok, technically the GT3 stole the structure from the C4, but either way Porsche saw fit to use it on the GT3.
I understand I can't do donuts or powerslide (unless it is a full four-wheel drift), but you can really hustle cross-country in a C4. AtoB there is no substitute for an AWD Porsche. You can really lean on the security and idiot-proof handling.
The true test it to drive both. If you can't tell the difference (or you prefer the C4), buy the C4. Because the day you NEED to tell the difference, it may be too late.
This is Autocar's inaugral review of the 996 C4 back in October 1998:
Some people say benefits only in wet, but anytime rear exhibits traction loss will force drive to front. I have previously managed to get a couple of C2 sideways in the (cold) dry and they were fully PSM'd 997s. However, touch wood, never lost a Turbo or C4. Somehow, I want my idea of a "Hedge Fund" to remain the perceived reason for global economic crashes, not the funds needed to fix wayward C2 crashes.
The C4 benefits from slightly more weight over the front wheels.
The marginally better weight distribution (the extra 55kgs is forward biased) - 40:60 vs 38:62 - brings a preferable steering response in my opinion.
However, 55KGs is not that much heavier, as this is approx the same as a full tank of fuel - ie an empty C4 weights less thans a full C2.
In the real world with loose surfaces, leaves and wet, 0-60 mph should favour the C4 as it can put all its power down without loss of traction.
The C4 is 95% the same as a C2 during balanced driving (only 5% drive to front wheels). Bear in mind, during normal driving with only 5% torque to front wheels, it is not a "hot hatch" torque steer scenario (5% = putting down roughly 7 lbft through the width of each front tire).
You get PSM (Porsche Stability Management) as standard on C4s, which you can switch off if you don't like or need (ie for track days etc), but if it isn't fitted to a C2 you obviously cannot turn on!
On the tires front, ok do you lose the ability to "light up the rear tires", but the AWD means, if anything the tires are worn out slower overall.
Again comparing early cars, C4s all had eGas drive-by-wire which allows easy cruise control upgrade if nothing else (also more advanced engine management).
With regard the boot space. Firstly, it's a sports car not a Volvo estate, secondly, erm, rear boot, two rear seats and folding seat backs, so in a straight competition with Ferrari 360 the Porker wins the B&Q and dog transport challenge hands down!
Seriously, though, the C2 has it's inflated spare wheel and toolkit vertical, so actual front to back dimensions are almost identical. The C4 has it's tool kit and deflated spare wheel in the boot well. Ok so you loose out on height, but the average squashy bag, or washing bucket (!) is alot shorter (the C2 boot is actually quite deep). So the headroom would be wasted any way, unless you planned to squash one and half bags in it.
The C4 has the same torsionally stronger and stiffer front chassis, suspension mounts and body structures as the GT3. Ok, technically the GT3 stole the structure from the C4, but either way Porsche saw fit to use it on the GT3.
I understand I can't do donuts or powerslide (unless it is a full four-wheel drift), but you can really hustle cross-country in a C4. AtoB there is no substitute for an AWD Porsche. You can really lean on the security and idiot-proof handling.
The true test it to drive both. If you can't tell the difference (or you prefer the C4), buy the C4. Because the day you NEED to tell the difference, it may be too late.
This is Autocar's inaugral review of the 996 C4 back in October 1998:
autocar said:
All wheel drive doesn't just give Porsche's newest 911 extra stability and safety - it also boosts driver involvement. Peter Robinson reports.
Your fingers convey the information the instant you turn the wheel. The steering is heavier, meatier, less sensitive. Not much, but enough of a difference to be immediately discernible to hands acquainted with the rear-drive Carrera.
The distinctions grew the longer we played with the Carrera 4 on the wonderfully demanding roads surrounding Porsche's Weissach proving ground. A bit more steering lock, a sense of mild understeer in a second-gear hairpin. Extra steering effort as increasing lateral forces amplify steering loads through a fourth-gear sweeper. A fraction less self-centring. Finally - and prepare for the ongoing arguments - a perception that this steering is actually more involving than that of the Carrera 2.
...
It takes no more than a couple of corners to fall in love with the C4. It's a normal 911, only better. More stable, especially at the high speeds the Carrera so quickly attains, less nervous in strong crosswinds, and even more consistent in its dynamics. At first it seems slightly less agile, because wheel movements are bigger, but experience reveals that its handling is actually more neutral, less oversteery.
Experimentation with the PSM reveals that the C4 responds to a smooth driving style and minimises the need for driver reactions, making it more relaxing to drive than the C2, not least a very high speeds on the autobahn.
...
All the driver understands is that the nose is less prone to pushing wide. The engine management system is set up so that if you lift off suddenly in a bend, a degree of torque is maintained to smooth out the weight transfer and reduce the car's reactions. It all makes for a supercar that is as failsafe as any, yet remains fun to drive quickly, the electronics doing their job so unobtrusive that most drivers won't even notice, unless they attack corners with arms flailing. Even then, it's effectively impossible to throw the C4 off balance, though not even the C4 can defy the laws of physics.
...
The choice between C2 and C4 remains as complex as ever. The C4 is undoubtedly the more talented car, exuding an invincible air that many will find irresistible.
Your fingers convey the information the instant you turn the wheel. The steering is heavier, meatier, less sensitive. Not much, but enough of a difference to be immediately discernible to hands acquainted with the rear-drive Carrera.
The distinctions grew the longer we played with the Carrera 4 on the wonderfully demanding roads surrounding Porsche's Weissach proving ground. A bit more steering lock, a sense of mild understeer in a second-gear hairpin. Extra steering effort as increasing lateral forces amplify steering loads through a fourth-gear sweeper. A fraction less self-centring. Finally - and prepare for the ongoing arguments - a perception that this steering is actually more involving than that of the Carrera 2.
...
It takes no more than a couple of corners to fall in love with the C4. It's a normal 911, only better. More stable, especially at the high speeds the Carrera so quickly attains, less nervous in strong crosswinds, and even more consistent in its dynamics. At first it seems slightly less agile, because wheel movements are bigger, but experience reveals that its handling is actually more neutral, less oversteery.
Experimentation with the PSM reveals that the C4 responds to a smooth driving style and minimises the need for driver reactions, making it more relaxing to drive than the C2, not least a very high speeds on the autobahn.
...
All the driver understands is that the nose is less prone to pushing wide. The engine management system is set up so that if you lift off suddenly in a bend, a degree of torque is maintained to smooth out the weight transfer and reduce the car's reactions. It all makes for a supercar that is as failsafe as any, yet remains fun to drive quickly, the electronics doing their job so unobtrusive that most drivers won't even notice, unless they attack corners with arms flailing. Even then, it's effectively impossible to throw the C4 off balance, though not even the C4 can defy the laws of physics.
...
The choice between C2 and C4 remains as complex as ever. The C4 is undoubtedly the more talented car, exuding an invincible air that many will find irresistible.
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff