My obituary to the NA...and why I'll get over it. :D
Discussion
Just felt like posting this, since I something changed for me this weekend and I pretty much resigned myself to the inevitable future of not just Porsche, but vehicles in general.
First of all, this is NOT an anti-718 post. It was a 718 that was the final straw in fact.
In personal experience, turbo'd motors suck. Now, I'm not saying they all suck...this is just my opinion...but I really have decided I don't like them. Turbos have become a workaround for legislation - hamstring an NA lump in order to meet the rules and then bolt on a turbo so the power does not suffer. Which means as soon as the turbo is working, your fuel economy goes down the pan. My DD is a new S5 which does 24mpg if I drive like a granny. The dash is always telling me to lift, the transmission coasts etc etc, but 24mpg is where it is (yes, I get the weight difference but the basic point stands, IMO). The engine is unresponsive and relies on a huge slug of boost further up the rev range before it really goes like a train (and it does) - but by the time you really feel what she's got, you are backing off the gas because the numbers on the dash are highly illegal...so what's the f
king point? You're not telling me that Audi could not have got the same 350bhp from the V6 on it's own, without the need for the turbo - placing the power in a much more usable place in the rev range and improving engine response? But no - not if they wanted to meet the letter of the law.
I didn't buy the Audi to save money on fuel over my CGTS - but I didn't expect it to be c.17% worse. That's a decent amount when you see what that means overall.
Anyway, that's the way things are now. It's about 10 minutes until everything is electric/electric-hybrid anyway, so who cares?
So why the post in a Porsche forum?
Well, as a formed 981 CGTS owner, I miss the sound, handling...well, everything about my car now I don't have it. But yesterday I saw a 718 Boxster parked alongside other reasonable cars (not to sound like a snob, but it wasn't alongside Fiestas and Corsas...it was in mid-to-upper market family car company) and it looked absolutely stunning. It was in a deep yellow and looked the absolute business.
And that's what a huge amount of Porsche buyers are buying - that look. That curb appeal. The badge, the style...not the engine.
I love the looks of the 911, Boxster and Cayman lines. The proportions of the Cayman and Boxster in particular really work. And I know from experience that not all 911's are a great drive (I was HUGELY disappointed by the 997S PDK), but that a whole bunch of them are just incredible going down a winding road.
And that's what I will buy. I will buy the 911/Cayman that gets down the road like I expect it to - and of course it's going to be turbocharged. That's just the way of the world.
I watched TG last night and that McLaren (as great as it is) sounded absolutely balls. For a V8, that was uninspiring and soulless. Compared to the other two, there was no competition on sound - they won. I genuinely believe the 981 CGTS is one of the best sounding cars you can get for almost any price and there is nothing in the price range that comes close for aural appeal...but those days have gone.
Much like my folks still preferring vinyl to Spotify, the world has moved on...so I must too.
If you have a 981 CGTS don't ever sell it. If you have a 718 then you have one of the most perfectly positioned cars I can think of right now. They handle incredibly well and they look fricken fantastic in any company - without being overly ostentatious.
So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
First of all, this is NOT an anti-718 post. It was a 718 that was the final straw in fact.
In personal experience, turbo'd motors suck. Now, I'm not saying they all suck...this is just my opinion...but I really have decided I don't like them. Turbos have become a workaround for legislation - hamstring an NA lump in order to meet the rules and then bolt on a turbo so the power does not suffer. Which means as soon as the turbo is working, your fuel economy goes down the pan. My DD is a new S5 which does 24mpg if I drive like a granny. The dash is always telling me to lift, the transmission coasts etc etc, but 24mpg is where it is (yes, I get the weight difference but the basic point stands, IMO). The engine is unresponsive and relies on a huge slug of boost further up the rev range before it really goes like a train (and it does) - but by the time you really feel what she's got, you are backing off the gas because the numbers on the dash are highly illegal...so what's the f
king point? You're not telling me that Audi could not have got the same 350bhp from the V6 on it's own, without the need for the turbo - placing the power in a much more usable place in the rev range and improving engine response? But no - not if they wanted to meet the letter of the law.I didn't buy the Audi to save money on fuel over my CGTS - but I didn't expect it to be c.17% worse. That's a decent amount when you see what that means overall.
Anyway, that's the way things are now. It's about 10 minutes until everything is electric/electric-hybrid anyway, so who cares?
So why the post in a Porsche forum?
Well, as a formed 981 CGTS owner, I miss the sound, handling...well, everything about my car now I don't have it. But yesterday I saw a 718 Boxster parked alongside other reasonable cars (not to sound like a snob, but it wasn't alongside Fiestas and Corsas...it was in mid-to-upper market family car company) and it looked absolutely stunning. It was in a deep yellow and looked the absolute business.
And that's what a huge amount of Porsche buyers are buying - that look. That curb appeal. The badge, the style...not the engine.
I love the looks of the 911, Boxster and Cayman lines. The proportions of the Cayman and Boxster in particular really work. And I know from experience that not all 911's are a great drive (I was HUGELY disappointed by the 997S PDK), but that a whole bunch of them are just incredible going down a winding road.
And that's what I will buy. I will buy the 911/Cayman that gets down the road like I expect it to - and of course it's going to be turbocharged. That's just the way of the world.
I watched TG last night and that McLaren (as great as it is) sounded absolutely balls. For a V8, that was uninspiring and soulless. Compared to the other two, there was no competition on sound - they won. I genuinely believe the 981 CGTS is one of the best sounding cars you can get for almost any price and there is nothing in the price range that comes close for aural appeal...but those days have gone.
Much like my folks still preferring vinyl to Spotify, the world has moved on...so I must too.
If you have a 981 CGTS don't ever sell it. If you have a 718 then you have one of the most perfectly positioned cars I can think of right now. They handle incredibly well and they look fricken fantastic in any company - without being overly ostentatious.
So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
very well written, and I agree. I would add that the problem are modern turbos, rather than all turbo cars. old turbo cars were turboed for performance, whereas modern ones are turboed for economy, and so their characteristics are very different.
As a former 981 CGTS and 981 Spyder owner, they are cracking cars and very special given their price point. However, I did move on to a lotus evora 400, which also sounds amazing, but blows the porkers out of the water for ride/handling/steering/specialness. Similar money as well. So there are still some "old school" cars being made for the few people who care about the power delivery of an engine combined with a great chassis, you just have to go slightly off the beaten track now.
I mean, look at the new TVR? If they have a proper chassis setup, then combined with its NA engine, it will be a cracking car. Fingers crossed. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the desire for the kind of power delivery that will disappear in modern turbo cars will mean looking at more niche car makers, so it won't completely disappear...
As a former 981 CGTS and 981 Spyder owner, they are cracking cars and very special given their price point. However, I did move on to a lotus evora 400, which also sounds amazing, but blows the porkers out of the water for ride/handling/steering/specialness. Similar money as well. So there are still some "old school" cars being made for the few people who care about the power delivery of an engine combined with a great chassis, you just have to go slightly off the beaten track now.
I mean, look at the new TVR? If they have a proper chassis setup, then combined with its NA engine, it will be a cracking car. Fingers crossed. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the desire for the kind of power delivery that will disappear in modern turbo cars will mean looking at more niche car makers, so it won't completely disappear...
PhantomPH said:
Just felt like posting this, since I something changed for me this weekend and I pretty much resigned myself to the inevitable future of not just Porsche, but vehicles in general.
So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
You can always buy older vehicle for fun. I did that and i'm happy. New cars are not for me so i did stay in the 90's So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
It would be a different thing if new cars would be superior to older ones, but they are not. For example sound, running cost, mpg are not that great when we are speaking new performance cars. They are fast for sure but they are totally numb too. So, yeah. cypriot said:
very well written, and I agree. I would add that the problem are modern turbos, rather than all turbo cars. old turbo cars were turboed for performance, whereas modern ones are turboed for economy, and so their characteristics are very different.
As a former 981 CGTS and 981 Spyder owner, they are cracking cars and very special given their price point. However, I did move on to a lotus evora 400, which also sounds amazing, but blows the porkers out of the water for ride/handling/steering/specialness. Similar money as well. So there are still some "old school" cars being made for the few people who care about the power delivery of an engine combined with a great chassis, you just have to go slightly off the beaten track now.
I mean, look at the new TVR? If they have a proper chassis setup, then combined with its NA engine, it will be a cracking car. Fingers crossed. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the desire for the kind of power delivery that will disappear in modern turbo cars will mean looking at more niche car makers, so it won't completely disappear...
Yes, the caveat should have been that I was referring to modern turbo vehicles, not the older ones. Very fair observation.As a former 981 CGTS and 981 Spyder owner, they are cracking cars and very special given their price point. However, I did move on to a lotus evora 400, which also sounds amazing, but blows the porkers out of the water for ride/handling/steering/specialness. Similar money as well. So there are still some "old school" cars being made for the few people who care about the power delivery of an engine combined with a great chassis, you just have to go slightly off the beaten track now.
I mean, look at the new TVR? If they have a proper chassis setup, then combined with its NA engine, it will be a cracking car. Fingers crossed. I suppose what I am trying to say is that the desire for the kind of power delivery that will disappear in modern turbo cars will mean looking at more niche car makers, so it won't completely disappear...
I had a good hard look at Lotus, but will happily admit I was swayed by overall quality concerns - both in terms of the 'special' feeling of the interior and the general build quality. I know build quality concerns are largely not an issue these days, but I do like to feel like I'm in something nice...so the CGTS won out for me in that area too.
You see, that's another issue...I have looked at the new TVR. And I never want to look at it again.
Without doubt there are currently still people doing 'things' - even Ford with the V8 Mustang - but my observation is that right here and right now, the N/A sportscar engine is pretty much gone. It's a genuine shame, but such is life.I saw people congratulating McLaren on the 'amazing sound' of their 2018 F1 car. Huh?? It sounds like an angry wasp playing a kazoo through a megaphone. How is that nice???? Then I realised - the commenters were of an age where they hadn't heard anything better. No V10 screaming like it was about to explode. And this is where we are right now. Of course the 718 etc will be a huge success...because that's all that most buyers know.
We are dinosaurs, ladies and gentlemen.
In a little under three days I take delivery of my first Porsche, a new Cayman. I’m stupidly excited about it, and this must be taken into account when reading my perspective on the sound it makes.
I’ve read and watched so much stuff from people lamenting the demise of the flat six engine, and a lot of people clearly feel very strongly about it, and I would never try and dismiss those feelings. I have no experience of the old engine, so have no common frame of reference. But to me, the car I am buying sounds magnificent. It snarls and growls and the exhaust pops and burbles on the downshift.
Perhaps I’d have a different perspective if I’d previously owned a car with the old engine. But I do have (until Thursday) a Nissan 350z, which has a V6 engine. It sounds glorious until it gets over about 5k revs, when it sounds harsh. The Cayman just sounds better the more I rev it.
Frankly, my new car could sound like Shane MacGowan taking a dump after 17 pints of cinzano and I wouldn’t care. It’s a stunning automobile.
Fair play if you’re a purist and have owned flat six Porsches. I’m happy to remain blissfully ignorant.
If you’ve never owned a Porsche of any variety, and you don’t like the sound of the new engine, fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.
PS Didn’t the old Ford GT40 on Top Gear last night sound epic?
I’ve read and watched so much stuff from people lamenting the demise of the flat six engine, and a lot of people clearly feel very strongly about it, and I would never try and dismiss those feelings. I have no experience of the old engine, so have no common frame of reference. But to me, the car I am buying sounds magnificent. It snarls and growls and the exhaust pops and burbles on the downshift.
Perhaps I’d have a different perspective if I’d previously owned a car with the old engine. But I do have (until Thursday) a Nissan 350z, which has a V6 engine. It sounds glorious until it gets over about 5k revs, when it sounds harsh. The Cayman just sounds better the more I rev it.
Frankly, my new car could sound like Shane MacGowan taking a dump after 17 pints of cinzano and I wouldn’t care. It’s a stunning automobile.
Fair play if you’re a purist and have owned flat six Porsches. I’m happy to remain blissfully ignorant.
If you’ve never owned a Porsche of any variety, and you don’t like the sound of the new engine, fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion.
PS Didn’t the old Ford GT40 on Top Gear last night sound epic?
Edited by CaineIsCarter on Monday 26th February 13:21
Edited by CaineIsCarter on Monday 26th February 13:23
PhantomPH said:
Just felt like posting this, since I something changed for me this weekend and I pretty much resigned myself to the inevitable future of not just Porsche, but vehicles in general.
First of all, this is NOT an anti-718 post. It was a 718 that was the final straw in fact.
In personal experience, turbo'd motors suck. Now, I'm not saying they all suck...this is just my opinion...but I really have decided I don't like them. Turbos have become a workaround for legislation - hamstring an NA lump in order to meet the rules and then bolt on a turbo so the power does not suffer. Which means as soon as the turbo is working, your fuel economy goes down the pan. My DD is a new S5 which does 24mpg if I drive like a granny. The dash is always telling me to lift, the transmission coasts etc etc, but 24mpg is where it is (yes, I get the weight difference but the basic point stands, IMO). The engine is unresponsive and relies on a huge slug of boost further up the rev range before it really goes like a train (and it does) - but by the time you really feel what she's got, you are backing off the gas because the numbers on the dash are highly illegal...so what's the fking point? You're not telling me that Audi could not have got the same 350bhp from the V6 on it's own, without the need for the turbo - placing the power in a much more usable place in the rev range and improving engine response? But no - not if they wanted to meet the letter of the law.
I didn't buy the Audi to save money on fuel over my CGTS - but I didn't expect it to be c.17% worse. That's a decent amount when you see what that means overall.
Anyway, that's the way things are now. It's about 10 minutes until everything is electric/electric-hybrid anyway, so who cares?
So why the post in a Porsche forum?
Well, as a formed 981 CGTS owner, I miss the sound, handling...well, everything about my car now I don't have it. But yesterday I saw a 718 Boxster parked alongside other reasonable cars (not to sound like a snob, but it wasn't alongside Fiestas and Corsas...it was in mid-to-upper market family car company) and it looked absolutely stunning. It was in a deep yellow and looked the absolute business.
And that's what a huge amount of Porsche buyers are buying - that look. That curb appeal. The badge, the style...not the engine.
I love the looks of the 911, Boxster and Cayman lines. The proportions of the Cayman and Boxster in particular really work. And I know from experience that not all 911's are a great drive (I was HUGELY disappointed by the 997S PDK), but that a whole bunch of them are just incredible going down a winding road.
And that's what I will buy. I will buy the 911/Cayman that gets down the road like I expect it to - and of course it's going to be turbocharged. That's just the way of the world.
I watched TG last night and that McLaren (as great as it is) sounded absolutely balls. For a V8, that was uninspiring and soulless. Compared to the other two, there was no competition on sound - they won. I genuinely believe the 981 CGTS is one of the best sounding cars you can get for almost any price and there is nothing in the price range that comes close for aural appeal...but those days have gone.
Much like my folks still preferring vinyl to Spotify, the world has moved on...so I must too.
If you have a 981 CGTS don't ever sell it. If you have a 718 then you have one of the most perfectly positioned cars I can think of right now. They handle incredibly well and they look fricken fantastic in any company - without being overly ostentatious.
So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
I don't get the post as you can buy a 3k miles 981 Boxster GTS still atm for less money than a 718 GTS so if you like the 981 GTS more why spend £15k more on a 718 GTS ?First of all, this is NOT an anti-718 post. It was a 718 that was the final straw in fact.
In personal experience, turbo'd motors suck. Now, I'm not saying they all suck...this is just my opinion...but I really have decided I don't like them. Turbos have become a workaround for legislation - hamstring an NA lump in order to meet the rules and then bolt on a turbo so the power does not suffer. Which means as soon as the turbo is working, your fuel economy goes down the pan. My DD is a new S5 which does 24mpg if I drive like a granny. The dash is always telling me to lift, the transmission coasts etc etc, but 24mpg is where it is (yes, I get the weight difference but the basic point stands, IMO). The engine is unresponsive and relies on a huge slug of boost further up the rev range before it really goes like a train (and it does) - but by the time you really feel what she's got, you are backing off the gas because the numbers on the dash are highly illegal...so what's the f
king point? You're not telling me that Audi could not have got the same 350bhp from the V6 on it's own, without the need for the turbo - placing the power in a much more usable place in the rev range and improving engine response? But no - not if they wanted to meet the letter of the law.I didn't buy the Audi to save money on fuel over my CGTS - but I didn't expect it to be c.17% worse. That's a decent amount when you see what that means overall.
Anyway, that's the way things are now. It's about 10 minutes until everything is electric/electric-hybrid anyway, so who cares?
So why the post in a Porsche forum?
Well, as a formed 981 CGTS owner, I miss the sound, handling...well, everything about my car now I don't have it. But yesterday I saw a 718 Boxster parked alongside other reasonable cars (not to sound like a snob, but it wasn't alongside Fiestas and Corsas...it was in mid-to-upper market family car company) and it looked absolutely stunning. It was in a deep yellow and looked the absolute business.
And that's what a huge amount of Porsche buyers are buying - that look. That curb appeal. The badge, the style...not the engine.
I love the looks of the 911, Boxster and Cayman lines. The proportions of the Cayman and Boxster in particular really work. And I know from experience that not all 911's are a great drive (I was HUGELY disappointed by the 997S PDK), but that a whole bunch of them are just incredible going down a winding road.
And that's what I will buy. I will buy the 911/Cayman that gets down the road like I expect it to - and of course it's going to be turbocharged. That's just the way of the world.
I watched TG last night and that McLaren (as great as it is) sounded absolutely balls. For a V8, that was uninspiring and soulless. Compared to the other two, there was no competition on sound - they won. I genuinely believe the 981 CGTS is one of the best sounding cars you can get for almost any price and there is nothing in the price range that comes close for aural appeal...but those days have gone.
Much like my folks still preferring vinyl to Spotify, the world has moved on...so I must too.
If you have a 981 CGTS don't ever sell it. If you have a 718 then you have one of the most perfectly positioned cars I can think of right now. They handle incredibly well and they look fricken fantastic in any company - without being overly ostentatious.
So well done, automotive world - you've broken me. But i'll get over it.
I agree in the main, however, I thought the McLaren sounded so much better than the Jaguar on TG last night.
Modern sporty Jaguars (and Range Rovers) sound so tinny and contrived with their artificial pops and bangs and all or nothing exhaust note. Give me the quieter and quicker McLaren any day.
The Mustang sounded amazing.........until the GT40 came on. Nothing is going to follow that on the noise stakes.
Modern sporty Jaguars (and Range Rovers) sound so tinny and contrived with their artificial pops and bangs and all or nothing exhaust note. Give me the quieter and quicker McLaren any day.
The Mustang sounded amazing.........until the GT40 came on. Nothing is going to follow that on the noise stakes.
Porsche911R said:
I don't get the post as you can buy a 3k miles 981 Boxster GTS still atm for less money than a 718 GTS so if you like the 981 GTS more why spend £15k more on a 718 GTS ?
Point being that the world is changing and I'm making my peace with it as much as I can. It's not about 'what I could buy' - I know what I could buy - it's about how times they are a changing and the acceptance of that.In a way, this is a post about a generational shift. Cars have entered a new generation and just like all other things, the people buying new in that generation will (as the excited posted above mentions) have no other frame of reference to compare against...and that's fine.It's tough for those of us with a frame of reference, because we are aware of what we perceive as being backwards steps...'its not like the old days'.
It's not always like that tho. I am kinda curious about a time when I get an NA motor that has a battery accompaniment (918 style) which should remove what I dislike about the modern turbo era.
I recently mentioned in an interview, that I was learning my skills at a time when internet access came with a huge telephone bill and if someone else in the house picked the phone up, you were cut off. A friend of mine who is in their twenties, was utterly stunned that A) I was that much older than they were and B) that that was actually a reality. So not all progress is bad. You just have to embrace the good with the bad.
PhantomPH said:
Point being that the world is changing and I'm making my peace with it as much as I can. It's not about 'what I could buy' - I know what I could buy - it's about how times they are a changing and the acceptance of that.
In a way, this is a post about a generational shift. Cars have entered a new generation and just like all other things, the people buying new in that generation will (as the excited posted above mentions) have no other frame of reference to compare against...and that's fine.It's tough for those of us with a frame of reference, because we are aware of what we perceive as being backwards steps...'its not like the old days'.
It's not always like that tho. I am kinda curious about a time when I get an NA motor that has a battery accompaniment (918 style) which should remove what I dislike about the modern turbo era.
I recently mentioned in an interview, that I was learning my skills at a time when internet access came with a huge telephone bill and if someone else in the house picked the phone up, you were cut off. A friend of mine who is in their twenties, was utterly stunned that A) I was that much older than they were and B) that that was actually a reality. So not all progress is bad. You just have to embrace the good with the bad.
again why move with the times, I have an old phone and 2 987.2 cars, I don't want the 981 even, and there are loads of cars one can buy.In a way, this is a post about a generational shift. Cars have entered a new generation and just like all other things, the people buying new in that generation will (as the excited posted above mentions) have no other frame of reference to compare against...and that's fine.It's tough for those of us with a frame of reference, because we are aware of what we perceive as being backwards steps...'its not like the old days'.
It's not always like that tho. I am kinda curious about a time when I get an NA motor that has a battery accompaniment (918 style) which should remove what I dislike about the modern turbo era.
I recently mentioned in an interview, that I was learning my skills at a time when internet access came with a huge telephone bill and if someone else in the house picked the phone up, you were cut off. A friend of mine who is in their twenties, was utterly stunned that A) I was that much older than they were and B) that that was actually a reality. So not all progress is bad. You just have to embrace the good with the bad.
If I bought a 981 I would have it 2 months and it would piss me off, same for a 718 I guess.
If you give in and buy a 4 pot you may as well buy a SUV.
I myself would be looking at the new Manual M2 competition if one had to have a brand new car under £70k
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 26th February 14:59
cypriot said:
I think the point the OP was making is not to go and buy used "better" cars, but looking to the future of sports cars. There is no point jumping on this thread to say "well just go and buy a used 9XX" as that is rather missing the point.
I am not sure there is a point, he said give up really and just buy some thing you don't really want, when really there are loads of cars to buy.maybe the future might be better EPS is getting good, and I would like a kers systems which gives a 10 second boost
but 987 PDK is crap, 981 steering is crap and the 718 has a 4 pot, so we are in limbo with crap tech atm and small engines.
The 991.2 GT3 won over an Evora for steering feel in the new EVO so that is a big WOW for EPS to win in steering feel over a Lotus !!!
but atm tech has been crap, yes PDK is there now only gen 1 was a bit crap, EPS I hope will filter down the range, but I am not buying 981 and 718 just because they are Porkers in the mean times as they are not fun cars to drive imo , I'll buy a manual M2 competition or some thing.
I am not really anti turbo as new cars don't have lag now days. and if you have electric fill then all's good.
I am very much looking forward to the 2020 Elise. although yes that will be a 4 pot.
Porsche911R said:
cypriot said:
I think the point the OP was making is not to go and buy used "better" cars, but looking to the future of sports cars. There is no point jumping on this thread to say "well just go and buy a used 9XX" as that is rather missing the point.
I am not sure there is a point, he said give up really and just buy some thing you don't really want, when really there are loads of cars to buy.No real 'I'm right and you are wrong' element to this thread at all - it's about how I am coming round to how things are right now.
I recently sold my 1958 VW Beetle. I loved Beetles when I was younger and always wanted another one. Man, did that not live up to the memory! I expect that at some point I will purchase a 718/992 or some such and find out it's a mile better than my memory of the 981 CGTS. You never know. But now I'm open to it...well...more open.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree with all of this. For me, the use of the turbo in the modern era has resulted in absolutely crap response from the engine and that's not what I want in a car - any car, not just a sports car.Noise is noise. Some people like it, some people hate it...you're never going to win with something so rooted in personal taste. It's like when two people have an argument about if it's too hot or two cold. They are both right - for one it's too hot and for the other it's too cold. You stand a very slim chance of hitting a sweet spot where both of those people are going to be perfectly happy. Same with the sound a car makes.
I think much of the talk of throttle response is a red herring. The throttle response of all the modern NA engines I've tried - including my 981 is far far worse than the best cars pre emission regs. I've seen instrumented figures suggesting throttle delays of around half a second on both NA and turbo cars. (A MK1 Golf GTI was measured at 0.1 second for comparison.)
Personally I have no issue with the throttle response of the 718 when the engine is spooled up - above say 3000revs - and I'd doubt it was much (if any) different to the 981. There is no technical reason why a turbo on boost should respond any slower than a NA engine. Let's face it the NA6 feels pretty flat and unresponsive below 4k.
Lag and noise are a different matter.
Personally I have no issue with the throttle response of the 718 when the engine is spooled up - above say 3000revs - and I'd doubt it was much (if any) different to the 981. There is no technical reason why a turbo on boost should respond any slower than a NA engine. Let's face it the NA6 feels pretty flat and unresponsive below 4k.
Lag and noise are a different matter.
Do explain why a turbo engine once spooled up should have any different throttle response to a NA engine.
You ought to know by now that I don't prefer turbo engines to NA ones in general or in this instance in particular. But I don't dismiss them on the basis of prejudice or muddled pseudo science.
You ought to know by now that I don't prefer turbo engines to NA ones in general or in this instance in particular. But I don't dismiss them on the basis of prejudice or muddled pseudo science.
Porsche911R said:
again why move with the times, I have an old phone and 2 987.2 cars, I don't want the 981 even, and there are loads of cars one can buy.
If I bought a 981 I would have it 2 months and it would piss me off, same for a 718 I guess.
If you give in and buy a 4 pot you may as well buy a SUV.
I myself would be looking at the new Manual M2 competition if one had to have a brand new car under £70k
If you're not keen on Porsche eps, I can't see you keeping a BMW for long? Terrible steering these days- absolutely zero feel- just light, or heavy in sport mode.If I bought a 981 I would have it 2 months and it would piss me off, same for a 718 I guess.
If you give in and buy a 4 pot you may as well buy a SUV.
I myself would be looking at the new Manual M2 competition if one had to have a brand new car under £70k
Edited by Porsche911R on Monday 26th February 14:59
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