981 CGTS vs 718 CGTS 4.0 steering

[Slippydiff]

Twinfan said:

Porsche911R said:

Troy Queef :

"Somnambulant spears of sheer sunlight streak and shriek as an orange orb crests its head above the hazy horizontal horizon of England’s eastern extremes. All at once the light laps upon a coruscating cube shifting at some speed across the flatlands of the uberFens. Manipulate your mind palace to zoom in on this pacey pedalling and your eye will espy that a Soul is being stirred here.

Note the conspicuous capital in that last sentence. For the boxy beast that scythes through the green sheet of the corpulent countryside is none other than Kia’s nubile next gen segment smashing family funster and this time around it’s more business-like than Branson’s briefcase.

When I fired the fob in the Tuesday twilight, first encounters were with a hatchback hewn from handsome with a sturdy stance and sleek surfacing hiding an inside as sensible as an accountant’s aunt, legroom you could limbo in and more preened plastic up front than on a plumped up porn star.

The oil ingesting engine ignites in an instant and initial impressions reveal a talented transmission and a clutch as snappy as a shark in Snappy Snaps. A ride as pliant as a pair of kitten skin slippers just adds to an act as refined and practical as Nigel Havers’s knapsack.

Now we get to the only question that matters: How does the functional Soul brother handle a helming? There’s only one way to peel this puppy. So it is that I find myself facing the rapacious rock face of the finest wheelman’s playground the East Midlands can provide and straight away, the Soul bares its soul. When the blacktop starts to buck, the engine talks the torque and the gearshift slides through the gate like an oiled adder on acid. Better yet, the chassis stays classy in the face of firm questioning, keeping as poised as a porcelain panther and delivering a black rubber bear hug to the broken blacktop below.

Entering an especially nuggety complex the nose dives in like an apex-crazed Tom Daley when all at once I back off the gas hammer. In a split second the Soul drops a shoulder and the tail gets waggy. I simply catch it with a dab of oppo and I’m away.

The Kia Soul Connect Plus 1.6 CRDi is a b!tch. And I spanked it."

[Lexington59]

Royal Jelly said:

Back to the OP - the 981 EPAS coupled with the chassis will be absolutely fine for 99% of owners. Most of those that parrot the criticism are literally sheep that heard it somewhere and wouldn’t know the difference.

The steering is superb, the grip is huge, the balance is perfect. The steering feel could be better, but don’t confuse that for the steering itself. You have to be driving like an absolute bellend on the road for it to affect your progress. Either that, or you’re unable to adapt.

981 owner then ?

They really do come across as an unpleasant bunch.

911R may have strong views, but at least he acknowledges criticisms of his cars.

Fawning comments such as "the steering is superb" when it is widely acknowledged as being a weak point (that was fixed in the subsequent models) do not help your credibility either.

[James McScotty]

Thanks for that. Any input on the actual question?

[Koln-RS]

Surely it’s largely subjective.

I had a 981S (20” wheels, PASM, GY F1s etc) as my daily, and I thought the steering was excellent.
Obviously not as sharp as some more focused sports cars such as an Elise or C7, but perfect for my purposes.

Some people set themselves up as experts, and make sweeping generalisations about all sorts of things on here. This is no exception.

[James McScotty]

Koln-RS said:

Surely it’s largely subjective.

I had a 981S (20” wheels, PASM, GY F1s etc) as my daily, and I thought the steering was excellent.
Obviously not as sharp as some more focused sports cars such as an Elise or C7, but perfect for my purposes.

Some people set themselves up as experts, and make sweeping generalisations about all sorts of things on here. This is no exception.

True. I'll have a go after lockdown.

[Porsche911R]

Andyoz said:

Do the SIM machines run hydraulic or EPAS steering

feel is better than any 981 :-p the top wheels run direct drive.

[Lexington59]

James McScotty said:

Thanks for that. Any input on the actual question?

Not sure who that is aimed that, but I, along with the previous posters above me had given their views earlier in the thread.

[Porsche911R]

JayK12 said:

Couldn't beat my sim time though..................come and race in our sim group, I invited you but you never replied, you'll get murder racing against fast people.

ping me a link, I have had a frozen shoulder for 12 months so not be racing and can only do 30 mins at a time atm.
I don;t mind coming last as even if I beat one person then they must be really st if I am that bad.

Did you ever race that Racical ?

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 14:08

[Porsche911R]

Royal Jelly said:

My hero.

You’ve completely missed my point, but that’s hardly surprising.

Never mind.

I asked what your driving and Porsche history is ?

I am an open book, just into cars all my life it's that simple, toy cars or not, I was rebulding diffs and setting up camber at 12. Not sure why that's funny.

[Royal Jelly]

Porsche911R said:

I asked what your driving and Porsche history is ?

I am an open book, just into cars all my life it's that simple, toy cars or not, I was rebulding diffs and setting up camber at 12. Not sure why that's funny.

Do you want my toy car and video game history, too?

My Porsche history is a mere 1 car. If you find that relevant to the crux of my point, then you’ve completely missed it.

Thanks for telling me about your toy cars and video games though

[Porsche911R]

Royal Jelly said:

Porsche911R said:

I asked what your driving and Porsche history is ?

I am an open book, just into cars all my life it's that simple, toy cars or not, I was rebulding diffs and setting up camber at 12. Not sure why that's funny.

Do you want my toy car and video game history, too?

My Porsche history is a mere 1 car. If you find that relevant to the crux of my point, then you’ve completely missed it.

Thanks for telling me about your toy cars and video games though

so you have nothing to compare it with or have modded any Porkers lol I love forums...
have you even been on track ?

why you do think racing and setting up 10th scale is playing with toy cars ?
At 12 I was learning about shocks, spring rates. oil weights, Geo's and then racing on Sunday at National level, and then rebuilding diffs and shocks all week ready for the next race with the fastest guys in the country.

take the piss all you like, I loved my 12 to 16 year old racing and at 16 when I bought my 1st car I knew what it all was about just 10 times bigger.
drivings diving and racing is racing be it 1/10th or sim imo.
I find sim way more exciting than track days as you ARE racing real people.

As for sim racing, LW and Verstappen all sim, all the best drivers can sim drive you learn new skills which transfer to real life as you loose
seat of the bum feedback you learn to use other means.
Nico Rosberg also shows lines and how to be fast at racing, very good to watch.
https://youtu.be/jIDT-EDprPM

Some people are into the lifestyle aspect of driving Porsche some enjoy driving them.

Today was a great day, I saw a 997 GT3 at 9 am, very rare sight and I did smile to myself as the guy put his foot down and I thought mmmmm very nice.

2 hours later I am parking in my local car park behind the same car , again very strange having never seem this car before where I live. A guy gets out, 88 years old flat cap wearing a tie :-) , my dads 91 still wears a tie., had the car from new and we spent 1.5 hours talking about Cars and Porsches , he raced and had a book in his car with him racing vs Stirling moss etc and we both enjoyed the chat.

Most people would not have looked twice or spoken to the chap.

you either have petrol for blood or you don't and this guy was 99 ron all the way, my blood is also petrol and all my money goes on the hobby from 12 and every penny of pocket money to today where my cars are worth more than my house.

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 14:36

[Royal Jelly]

Porsche911R said:

Royal Jelly said:

Porsche911R said:

I asked what your driving and Porsche history is ?

I am an open book, just into cars all my life it's that simple, toy cars or not, I was rebulding diffs and setting up camber at 12. Not sure why that's funny.

Do you want my toy car and video game history, too?

My Porsche history is a mere 1 car. If you find that relevant to the crux of my point, then you’ve completely missed it.

Thanks for telling me about your toy cars and video games though

so you have nothing to compare it with or have modded any Porkers lol I love forums...
have you even been on track ?

why you do think racing and setting up 10th scale is playing with toy cars ?
At 12 I was learning about shocks, spring rates. oil weights, Geo's and then racing on Sunday at National level, and then rebuilding diffs and shocks all week ready for the next race with the fastest guys in the country.

take the piss all you like, I loved my 12 to 16 year old racing and at 16 when I bought my 1st car I knew what it all was about just 10 times bigger.
drivings diving and racing is racing be it 1/10th or sim imo.
I find sim way more exciting than track days as you ARE racing real people.

As for sim racing, LW and Verstappen all sim, all the best drivers can sim drive you learn new skills which transfer to real life as you loose
seat of the bum feedback you learn to use other means.
Nico Rosberg also shows lines and how to be fast at racing, very good to watch.
https://youtu.be/jIDT-EDprPM

I realise that literacy and comprehension are not your forte, apparently toy cars are; so I’ll try to be more clear:

I am not purporting to know more than you, heaven forbid.

The point I am making is that it’s incredibly tiresome to read thread-after-thread where you stick you nose in, like a gobby know-it-all. You do this forcibly and repeatedly. Your ability to discuss anything you disagree with is close to zero. You are that guy people discuss in private messages. You make these forums unpleasant.

Yes I have been on a track. Again, irrelevant. If you want to talk about speed, envelope limits (both physical and aerodynamic), simulators, hand eye coordination and all that other toss you pointlessly introduced in your response, I’ll be happy to talk to you about how I have spent the last 20-something years of my life. This thread isn’t that arena, though, so put your cock away.

Edited by Royal Jelly on Thursday 5th November 14:40

[Porsche911R]

Royal Jelly said:

I realise that literacy and comprehension are not your forte, apparently toy cars are; so I’ll try to be more clear:

The thing here is, your 1st post was to slag me off, not talk about EPS.
that IS the BIG difference.

I got involved in the subject and have enjoyed the debate, well the 1st few pages, you came on here to post abuse to another member, I don't get it.

So who stuck their nose in you or me ?

I still build toy cars, In March in lockdown I picked up a 10th scale car I could not afford at 16 and built it, very enjoyable :-)
quite a few of my mates own and build these cars still, if you like cars this sort of thing never leaves you.
infact I can race today vs the top guy back in the day even at 50 most of the same guys do it.


Out of interest as you are a pilot, do you own toy planes ?

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 14:49

[Royal Jelly]

No, I don’t own toy planes.

Never mind. If you’re happy being some sort of PH caricature of yourself, then as you were. None of my business.

[James McScotty]

Lexington59 said:

Coming from a 987 I could never get on with the steering in the 981. It is definitely a lot better in the 718.

If you've only had a fairly limited exposure than maybe you could live with it. I couldn't.

Surprises me when people say it's marginal. Personally I think the difference is pretty noticeable.

I had four years using a 997 C2S as a daily driver, around 40k miles. So, limited exposure to Caymans before I bought one.

I've had a couple of 718s as courtesy cars, didn't notice particularly different steering, I must confess. Hence the question about the new one.

[James McScotty]

Yes, a bit on the rough side. Which I found very odd, because I've always thought Scoobies sound really good.

[Stunters]

Andyoz said:

Stunters said:

I do

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.

Out of interest, what were the main reason for making the 981 GT4 to 718 GTS jump? The GTS 4.0 seems to be selling like hotcakes (which they obviously deserve)

The steering on the 718 'is better' than the 981 GT4 in my opinion. It has slightly more feel and enough to make a difference to me. It's a bit lighter in weighting and fractionally less sharp on initial turn in but it has less artificiality to its action. I had more confidence in what the car was telling me it was up to.

Being on narrower and less grippy tyres makes the GTS more fun in my opinion. It's easier to detect and initiate changes in the car's attitude.

As others have said earlier in the thread, with the (981)) GT4, you have lots of grip (in the dry and on Cup 2s) but you don't get much of a sense of what the car has in reserve and/or when you may be nearing the limits of grip. In the wet, the lack of feel and firm ride means it's quite hard to build confidence and trust in the car.

The ride in the GTS (I only have experience of the -20mm drop and that's what I've ordered) is night and day better than the 981 GT4 on A and B roads, apart from very smooth tarmac. Most of my local fun-roads are quite bumpy and fairly poorly-surfaced, the GTS is just faster and nicer on them. The car is still a little bouncy on the most corrugated of B-roads and for brisk road use and no track, the -10mm *may* be the better bet. But mine will go on track, so I think -20mm is better for me.
.

The GTS is also more powerful and faster in a straight line than the 981 GT4 (over 60 mph, definitely and significantly) - and has more torque at lower revs.. The engine is just nicer at actually powering the car. It doesn't make quite as nice, or as loud, a noise as the 981 GT4 but this is actually a benefit if you want to track it. In my opinion, the engine is actually more musical and changes more through the rev range than the 981 GT4 and is still very much a flat six.

Interior-wise you can get BOSE on the GTS (and 718 GT4) whereas you couldn't on the 981 GT4. Even the Sound Package Plus on the GT4 is fairly rubbish. Clearly this isn't about the driving, but it's certainly important to me about the using and living with a car.

I ran a 987.1 Cayman S for 12 years and 103,000 miles and a 981 GT4 for 4 and a half years. The GTS isn't as good as either car in certain aspects, but it nails what I want in a one-car package much more comprehensively than they do.

[bcr5784]

Stunters said:

The steering on the 718 'is better' than the 981 GT4 in my opinion. It has slightly more feel and enough to make a difference to me. It's a bit lighter in weighting and fractionally less sharp on initial turn in but it has less artificiality to its action. I had more confidence in what the car was telling me it was up to.

Being on narrower and less grippy tyres makes the GTS more fun in my opinion. It's easier to detect and initiate changes in the car's attitude.

As others have said earlier in the thread, with the (981)) GT4, you have lots of grip (in the dry and on Cup 2s) but you don't get much of a sense of what the car has in reserve and/or when you may be nearing the limits of grip. In the wet, the lack of feel and firm ride means it's quite hard to build confidence and trust in the car.

The ride in the GTS (I only have experience of the -20mm drop and that's what I've ordered) is night and day better than the 981 GT4 on A and B roads, apart from very smooth tarmac. Most of my local fun-roads are quite bumpy and fairly poorly-surfaced, the GTS is just faster and nicer on them. The car is still a little bouncy on the most corrugated of B-roads and for brisk road use and no track, the -10mm *may* be the better bet. But mine will go on track, so I think -20mm is better for me.
.

The GTS is also more powerful and faster in a straight line than the 981 GT4 (over 60 mph, definitely and significantly) - and has more torque at lower revs.. The engine is just nicer at actually powering the car. It doesn't make quite as nice, or as loud, a noise as the 981 GT4 but this is actually a benefit if you want to track it. In my opinion, the engine is actually more musical and changes more through the rev range than the 981 GT4 and is still very much a flat six.

Interior-wise you can get BOSE on the GTS (and 718 GT4) whereas you couldn't on the 981 GT4. Even the Sound Package Plus on the GT4 is fairly rubbish. Clearly this isn't about the driving, but it's certainly important to me about the using and living with a car.

I ran a 987.1 Cayman S for 12 years and 103,000 miles and a 981 GT4 for 4 and a half years. The GTS isn't as good as either car in certain aspects, but it nails what I want in a one-car package much more comprehensively than they do.

Nice to see a balanced (as opposed to black and white) assessment - whether you agree with it or not.

[Andyoz]

Stunters said:

Andyoz said:

Stunters said:

I do

I did over 120 miles in the GTS 4.0 in two separate test drives, and it was more than enough to tempt me out of my 981 GT4.

Out of interest, what were the main reason for making the 981 GT4 to 718 GTS jump? The GTS 4.0 seems to be selling like hotcakes (which they obviously deserve)

The steering on the 718 'is better' than the 981 GT4 in my opinion. It has slightly more feel and enough to make a difference to me. It's a bit lighter in weighting and fractionally less sharp on initial turn in but it has less artificiality to its action. I had more confidence in what the car was telling me it was up to.

Being on narrower and less grippy tyres makes the GTS more fun in my opinion. It's easier to detect and initiate changes in the car's attitude.

As others have said earlier in the thread, with the (981)) GT4, you have lots of grip (in the dry and on Cup 2s) but you don't get much of a sense of what the car has in reserve and/or when you may be nearing the limits of grip. In the wet, the lack of feel and firm ride means it's quite hard to build confidence and trust in the car.

The ride in the GTS (I only have experience of the -20mm drop and that's what I've ordered) is night and day better than the 981 GT4 on A and B roads, apart from very smooth tarmac. Most of my local fun-roads are quite bumpy and fairly poorly-surfaced, the GTS is just faster and nicer on them. The car is still a little bouncy on the most corrugated of B-roads and for brisk road use and no track, the -10mm *may* be the better bet. But mine will go on track, so I think -20mm is better for me.
.

The GTS is also more powerful and faster in a straight line than the 981 GT4 (over 60 mph, definitely and significantly) - and has more torque at lower revs.. The engine is just nicer at actually powering the car. It doesn't make quite as nice, or as loud, a noise as the 981 GT4 but this is actually a benefit if you want to track it. In my opinion, the engine is actually more musical and changes more through the rev range than the 981 GT4 and is still very much a flat six.

Interior-wise you can get BOSE on the GTS (and 718 GT4) whereas you couldn't on the 981 GT4. Even the Sound Package Plus on the GT4 is fairly rubbish. Clearly this isn't about the driving, but it's certainly important to me about the using and living with a car.

I ran a 987.1 Cayman S for 12 years and 103,000 miles and a 981 GT4 for 4 and a half years. The GTS isn't as good as either car in certain aspects, but it nails what I want in a one-car package much more comprehensively than they do.

Interesting comparison, especially about the engine having more character.

I've only driven a 718T and found the steering just fine. Didn't drive enough to compare to my 987.1S or 987.2R but it's obvious they're getting a handle on things.

[franki68]

Porsche911R said:

ping me a link, I have had a frozen shoulder for 12 months so not be racing and can only do 30 mins at a time atm.
I don;t mind coming last as even if I beat one person then they must be really st if I am that bad.

Did you ever race that Racical ?

Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 5th November 14:08

I have had 2 frozen shoulders recently,not sure how you can drive at all with a proper frozen shoulder unless you drive one handed.
Go and get it seen to,and employ a rigorous stretching regime once dealt with as otherwise it will come back.