Admission of negligence
Discussion
I have done nothing but present the facts. So should in some fairy tale land the Porsche lawyers look on here then I haven't done anything untoward.
My main rationale for posting about this was to share the experience.... and gain some knowledge in reverse. One thing I have learnt for sure... that I kind of knew.... is that there are some argumentative tossers in this world ;-)
As a martial artist (to follow on from a previous post someone made) I am always looking to better myself. I will of course learn from this. Taking the vehicle to a suspension specialist maybe a good shout.
FYI to everyone I have "set the lawyers" on them. I have followed the correct process. I have found out what the problem is/was. I said from the outset how the heck could I ever prove it was the OPC fault. BUT - that one of their management has advised me it was a tracking issue (and the evidence points that way) and also due to previous issues - I have asked it is escalated to head office. I have had a call from them - the usual sorry we will investigate and await that. In the interim I have "spoken" with a negligence solicitor to see where I stand legally. Which is a reasonable thing to do.
If all that is reasonable is that I get everything covered thats cool. If Porsche head office deem this worthy of something else - cool. If there is precedent in law here to prove negligence - cool.
This is a forum - where you can debate things figuratively. There seems to be a lot of straw man debating going on. But again I'm used to people doing that.
My main rationale for posting about this was to share the experience.... and gain some knowledge in reverse. One thing I have learnt for sure... that I kind of knew.... is that there are some argumentative tossers in this world ;-)
As a martial artist (to follow on from a previous post someone made) I am always looking to better myself. I will of course learn from this. Taking the vehicle to a suspension specialist maybe a good shout.
FYI to everyone I have "set the lawyers" on them. I have followed the correct process. I have found out what the problem is/was. I said from the outset how the heck could I ever prove it was the OPC fault. BUT - that one of their management has advised me it was a tracking issue (and the evidence points that way) and also due to previous issues - I have asked it is escalated to head office. I have had a call from them - the usual sorry we will investigate and await that. In the interim I have "spoken" with a negligence solicitor to see where I stand legally. Which is a reasonable thing to do.
If all that is reasonable is that I get everything covered thats cool. If Porsche head office deem this worthy of something else - cool. If there is precedent in law here to prove negligence - cool.
This is a forum - where you can debate things figuratively. There seems to be a lot of straw man debating going on. But again I'm used to people doing that.
GaryF said:
This has all got a bit juicy now hasn't it?!
An adversary has been charged with attempted murder having shot the tyres out with a gun that may have been discharged accidentally on purpose when he tripped on the pavement.
The lawyers have been called in and the local council have a criminally civil case to answer (look up table available now on here to determine case type).
I don't know which way this one is going to go, but I'm hooked. OP, I think there could be a potential movie in this. You may even be able to play yourself and get to chop up a few baddies.
Bwahahahahahaa what have I caused.An adversary has been charged with attempted murder having shot the tyres out with a gun that may have been discharged accidentally on purpose when he tripped on the pavement.
The lawyers have been called in and the local council have a criminally civil case to answer (look up table available now on here to determine case type).
I don't know which way this one is going to go, but I'm hooked. OP, I think there could be a potential movie in this. You may even be able to play yourself and get to chop up a few baddies.
I think what people need to research is straw man logic and also figurative talk!
When did I say I was looking at taking Porsche to court for attempted murder? haha!
davek_964 said:
I don't think anybody disputes that it COULD have been very serious.
But I'm inclined to agree with Oso - they are already compensating you directly for any real loss you suffered, and I think any goodwill Porsche were likely to offer for any loss you <might> have suffered is likely to disappear now the lawyers are involved.
Regardless of whether Porsche were responsible for the tyres wearing excessively- which does seem to be the case - it is always going to be your responsibility to make sure the car is roadworthy, which means that you should have noticed this long before the tyre exploded.
Good luck, and I hope you do get a positive result. But I suspect that unless you're using an ambulance chasing no-win-no-fee lawyer, you're simply going to end up with a legal bill.
To reiterate I havent "set the lawyers on them." - Im awaiting Porsche Head Office response to their "investigations." I took legal advice before posting here just to see where I stand. And after hearing peoples thoughts on here Im guessing the ultimate result will be rectifying their error... maybe an offer of a service or something & a pretty cheap life lesson, which Im all for.But I'm inclined to agree with Oso - they are already compensating you directly for any real loss you suffered, and I think any goodwill Porsche were likely to offer for any loss you <might> have suffered is likely to disappear now the lawyers are involved.
Regardless of whether Porsche were responsible for the tyres wearing excessively- which does seem to be the case - it is always going to be your responsibility to make sure the car is roadworthy, which means that you should have noticed this long before the tyre exploded.
Good luck, and I hope you do get a positive result. But I suspect that unless you're using an ambulance chasing no-win-no-fee lawyer, you're simply going to end up with a legal bill.
davek_964 said:
I guess you missed out the word "not". Hence my (and I suspect other peoples) confusion.
Hahaha the dreaded typo!!!So didn't mention I had an alignment done - queue accusations of burning my own tyres out. AND I then say I'm setting the lawyers on them when i meant HAVENT - queue other various pieces of "abuse." - Haven't helped myself out on that.
I am also NOT expecting something for nothing. I am a parity man.
I do kind of regret posting on here now and talking in person with people is so much easier.
jonny finance said:
Two incidents have come and gone by in my simple life this week which somehow draw comparisons.. First was a snotty chasing letter received from HMRC
chasing supposed tax not paid. Checked records - all paid, cheque cleared all on time... What on earth?? Who the hell?? You wait.. Get em on the phone.
The HMRC lady could not have been more helpful, apologetic and just plain nice..
Next. Had to take daughters newly purchased phone back to one of those strange buy and sell nearly new shops. Again I prepared myself for a right battle and expected nothing but disputes, awkwardness and hassle.. Girl serving followed by store manager could not of been more agreeable, genuinely helpful and again nice. Left shop with replacement phone and a very happy daughter on my return home..
Funny enough I also previously had experience of the same OPC who had a slight mishap when our car was in for service. Admittedly the problem was caused by a third party but the way they handled the situation and did their upmost to remedy the mistake was all one could seriously ask or indeed expect.
If the faults and issues are remedied and your on the end of humbling niceness your on to a winner...To expect more is just so 'American'
And if this is the third such incident with the same centre? Just let it slide? Hoping it will improve. Or till someone gets killed.
chasing supposed tax not paid. Checked records - all paid, cheque cleared all on time... What on earth?? Who the hell?? You wait.. Get em on the phone.
The HMRC lady could not have been more helpful, apologetic and just plain nice..
Next. Had to take daughters newly purchased phone back to one of those strange buy and sell nearly new shops. Again I prepared myself for a right battle and expected nothing but disputes, awkwardness and hassle.. Girl serving followed by store manager could not of been more agreeable, genuinely helpful and again nice. Left shop with replacement phone and a very happy daughter on my return home..
Funny enough I also previously had experience of the same OPC who had a slight mishap when our car was in for service. Admittedly the problem was caused by a third party but the way they handled the situation and did their upmost to remedy the mistake was all one could seriously ask or indeed expect.
If the faults and issues are remedied and your on the end of humbling niceness your on to a winner...To expect more is just so 'American'
And if this is the third such incident with the same centre? Just let it slide? Hoping it will improve. Or till someone gets killed.
Edited by jonny finance on Thursday 20th August 14:13
Its going round in circles a bit and I don't follow a lot of the logic here so I think ill just sum up and leave it :-)
We have established there is no clear indicator of who is at fault here. The available evidence would put a reasonable probability on it being Porsche not doing the wheel alignment at all, or correctly, when the 4 tyres were replaced in May (as was paid for).
They have replaced the tyres for free, done a check and put some new bolts on the suspension free of charge. So ultimately I am back in the position I was in when the tyres were replaced in May.
There is debate about whether there is any element of negligence here and whether legal action is worth the effort. The consensus is because Porsche are so big and scary, its hard to prove and we wouldn't want to annoy them going forward because they service the car AND some people are happy to let things slide for as many times as is necessary until there is a a death or something more serious (then take action)..... I should put it down to experience. Viva la prevention is better cure!!!
The car has just arrived now.... all shiny and repaired. So Im off down the back roads to see how quickly I can wear this set down and get back on here claiming I don't know whats going on ;-)
We have established there is no clear indicator of who is at fault here. The available evidence would put a reasonable probability on it being Porsche not doing the wheel alignment at all, or correctly, when the 4 tyres were replaced in May (as was paid for).
They have replaced the tyres for free, done a check and put some new bolts on the suspension free of charge. So ultimately I am back in the position I was in when the tyres were replaced in May.
There is debate about whether there is any element of negligence here and whether legal action is worth the effort. The consensus is because Porsche are so big and scary, its hard to prove and we wouldn't want to annoy them going forward because they service the car AND some people are happy to let things slide for as many times as is necessary until there is a a death or something more serious (then take action)..... I should put it down to experience. Viva la prevention is better cure!!!
The car has just arrived now.... all shiny and repaired. So Im off down the back roads to see how quickly I can wear this set down and get back on here claiming I don't know whats going on ;-)
davek_964 said:
Not exactly. At least my view is : you can't be compensated for something that didn't happen.
And that's what I'm reading from other posters too.
If you think that going legal would somehow cause Porsche to adopt new procedures that would prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again, then that's commendable - but rather unlikely to achieve the required result.
So if I prove ONE case of someone being "compensated for something that didn't happen" in UK law will I win the internets again today?And that's what I'm reading from other posters too.
If you think that going legal would somehow cause Porsche to adopt new procedures that would prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again, then that's commendable - but rather unlikely to achieve the required result.
davek_964 said:
I guess you 'win' if you proceed with legal action, win the case and Porsche award you compensation. Personally, I don't see that as very likely.
But if it's what you want to do, then knock yourself out.
Incorrect.But if it's what you want to do, then knock yourself out.
You made a statement "At least my view is : you can't be compensated for something that didn't happen....."
That strikes me as a huge generalisation.
Skyman said:
Why? You have yet to. Just get the damage rectified and move on. Life is too short, and your would-be loss is of no relevance to you or anyone else. The tide is clearly against you.
bwahahahah tide. Ive said many times I posted here to get peoples thoughts & to share an experience.
sidicks said:
It's just that you don't like the thoughts that you are receiving!
Incorrect.Just makes me think of this......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1MO023vN8o
davek_964 said:
The dictionary definition of compensation : Something, typically money, awarded to someone for loss, suffering or injury.
You are already being compensated for loss (tyres etc). You were not injured. Are you claiming suffering?
You cannot be 'compensated' for loss, suffering or injury that did not happen.
In any event, you do 'win' because this discussion is a pointless waste of time. The only people whose opinion you seem to want are the ones that agree with you. Since that's not mine I will no longer offer an opinion.
I don't think its a waste of time myself.... there has been plenty of good points raised. I have learnt from those on both sides of the debate. Thanks to the person who raised about seeing a suspension specialist - my car is booked in. You are already being compensated for loss (tyres etc). You were not injured. Are you claiming suffering?
You cannot be 'compensated' for loss, suffering or injury that did not happen.
In any event, you do 'win' because this discussion is a pointless waste of time. The only people whose opinion you seem to want are the ones that agree with you. Since that's not mine I will no longer offer an opinion.
It just surprises me when people derail a discussion and poke someone then get all butt hurt when they are answered back to......
I agree it didn't have to be continued for 200 posts and I did try a final post to summarise.
What i will add.... is I guess Im cut from a different cloth and wont stand morons as well as a lot of you. I don't in every day life either - maybe its the martial artist in me. Good luck with your nicey nicey approach though Im sure it will work out for you. But I have a set of balls and will stand up for myself.
Im not going to say what Porsche head office came back with this evening..... as someone pointed out probably best to keep the details quiet. Needless to say had I tuck tailed and done what a lot of you clearly do in your everyday life I wouldn't be getting the result I have :-)
Oso said:
I can certainly see the similarities here with the MMA fighter: for one thing, you clearly like to have your fights in front of an audience - and you certainly got one here on PH for this fight with your OPC!
Do traditional martial arts approve of unnecessary aggression?
You've had this battle very much in public - so we've seen a bit about what you're about - and fair play to you, you seem happy with how it ended, well done. But don't make the mistake of thinking that means you know much about any of us or what we do in our everyday life.
You've had a lot of help offered on here; yep you've caught some incoming and there have been a few arguments on the sidelines (as is alway the case on PH) - but aren't there more magnanimous ways to sign off than implying that you're the only one with any balls around here?
How is the car any way? Maybe share some thoughts about how it is driving now it's back? What are you planning to do when you get the geometry done?
Sorry - been away in Spain and just back.Do traditional martial arts approve of unnecessary aggression?
You've had this battle very much in public - so we've seen a bit about what you're about - and fair play to you, you seem happy with how it ended, well done. But don't make the mistake of thinking that means you know much about any of us or what we do in our everyday life.
You've had a lot of help offered on here; yep you've caught some incoming and there have been a few arguments on the sidelines (as is alway the case on PH) - but aren't there more magnanimous ways to sign off than implying that you're the only one with any balls around here?
How is the car any way? Maybe share some thoughts about how it is driving now it's back? What are you planning to do when you get the geometry done?
There was no unnecessary aggression - theres no tone here. Meeting fire with fire is allowed though.... ;-)
The car seems fine thanks. One thing I have learnt is that as a beginner in the sports car world I don't know my car at all in terms of knowing if it is not handling correctly to spot a minor fault before it becomes a larger one. I may have to accept that or upskill. Isnt a sign of stupidity making the same mistake over and over? But all I can say is before it happened I did not have any real signs in the days/weeks leading up to it.
Im not sure what you meant by what am I planning to do when I get the geometry done?
In terms of a settlement from Porsche head office... I have received a happy settlement yes. I have suffered no cost.... I have some compo & future goodwill so I continue to use the OPC I have been. I am due to go in and meet the manager - and will heed someones advice on here from earlier that its best to play nice in these situations.
All joking aside - I have appreciated all comments as I've learnt plenty.
I know that no one really cares too much - but as I got some good advice on here just finishing off.
I went to a suspension specialist.
This is AFTER Porsche have had the car back in following the original blow out. And paying for everything but not admitting they didn't do the alignment etc correctly.
3 of the 4 tyres balancing was out. One by as much as 45g on the rear where they had been counterbalanced with weights and on more than one place round the inside of the wheel. Which I am told is very shoddy work.
Of the 14 areas on the before measurement on then alignment - 6 were completely out (camber & toe). Obviously corrected now.
The steering wheel was not level either. That has also been requested.
Only cost £100 so not bad. Thanks for the advice.
I am just so disappointed by the constant poor service. Thats now OPC Bristol & Cardiff!
I went to a suspension specialist.
This is AFTER Porsche have had the car back in following the original blow out. And paying for everything but not admitting they didn't do the alignment etc correctly.
3 of the 4 tyres balancing was out. One by as much as 45g on the rear where they had been counterbalanced with weights and on more than one place round the inside of the wheel. Which I am told is very shoddy work.
Of the 14 areas on the before measurement on then alignment - 6 were completely out (camber & toe). Obviously corrected now.
The steering wheel was not level either. That has also been requested.
Only cost £100 so not bad. Thanks for the advice.
I am just so disappointed by the constant poor service. Thats now OPC Bristol & Cardiff!
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff