986 or 987 - what to buy?
Discussion
My 964 C2 Tip is currently being brokered. I've owned it for 3 years and enjoyed driving it, but increased values and the fact that I'm driving my Z4 2.2 roadster a lot more than the 964 means it's time for a change. I've got an E61 as a daily driver, so the other two cars get driven for fun, or when it isn't raining. I figured that a Boxster could pretty much replace both the 964 and Z4, for a lot less money.
Question is, what Boxster to get? £10 to 12K will get me a really nice 986 3.2S facelift from a respected specialist. An early 987S will be quite a bit more from the same source, or I could take my chances buying privately or from a non-specialist.
Whatever car I get, I'd prefer a Tip. I had a test in a 986 3.2 Tip, and loved it.
Although the 987 is a little nicer to sit in, I'm not sure it's worth spending several £k more. There's also the depreciation of a newer car to consider. I think that a good 986 will lose less than an average 987.
So, what to do:
"Perfect" 986S and put a few £K away for maintenance?
"Average" 987S and keep my fingers crossed?
Blow my budget, and get a "perfect" 987S?
BTW, I'm 57 and semi-retired, so my income is a bit on the low side. I can't really justify keeping 3 cars!
Question is, what Boxster to get? £10 to 12K will get me a really nice 986 3.2S facelift from a respected specialist. An early 987S will be quite a bit more from the same source, or I could take my chances buying privately or from a non-specialist.
Whatever car I get, I'd prefer a Tip. I had a test in a 986 3.2 Tip, and loved it.
Although the 987 is a little nicer to sit in, I'm not sure it's worth spending several £k more. There's also the depreciation of a newer car to consider. I think that a good 986 will lose less than an average 987.
So, what to do:
"Perfect" 986S and put a few £K away for maintenance?
"Average" 987S and keep my fingers crossed?
Blow my budget, and get a "perfect" 987S?
BTW, I'm 57 and semi-retired, so my income is a bit on the low side. I can't really justify keeping 3 cars!
Interior condition bothers me a lot, probably more than exterior condition (parking scrapes, rather than serious damage). I'm guessing it's probably cheaper to get the corners resprayed than it is to replace a shedload of scuffed interior trim?
Most of the 986s that I've seen at local dealers have been pretty rough on the inside, but they were priced at the lower end of the market. I looked at two last week. Both were late pre-facelift cars. The cheaper one was a bit dog-eared inside, but the one for £9k was like new. For an extra grand, I'd take the one with the better interior.
If I get a 986, it'll have to be a facelift car. Glass rear window is a must for me, and I'm not keen on the ambers either.
I'm a fairly recent convert to autos. The 964 was my first (except for a Mk3 Granada back in the day), and I have to say I rather like them. It may be my age, but it's one less thing to be thinking about on the back lanes. I can keep both hands on the wheel, and pay full attention to any potential hazards on the narrow lanes around here. Gives me the confidence to press on a bit harder.
The one downside of the autos that I currently drive is overtaking. I'm always wondering how quickly they will respond, and how many gears they will downshift. The Tip in the 986 seemed a lot more predictable in full auto, and the steering wheel buttons were easier to use than moving the lever across the gate then flipping it forwards or backwards. It's made even worse in my current cars because Porsche and BMW do it differently - forwards for down in one, backwards in the other. Or, is it move the lever to the left to engage manual in one. right in the other? I have to look at the lever to remember, because the cars all do it a different way! Should be a lot easier to remember with buttons on the wheel!
I did prefer the interior of the 987, but the improvement over a really good, late, 986 wasn't as great as I'd expected. Full leather in the early car helped a lot. As for the exterior, in many ways I prefer the cleaner lines of the 986 - except for the headlights.
The dealer had just aquired a very early 986 - a dealer launch model in orange. It's had one owner, and only covered 1400 (yes, fourteen hundred) miles. Looks like the owner only drove it once a year, to get it serviced. Absolutely perfect in every way.
Most of the 986s that I've seen at local dealers have been pretty rough on the inside, but they were priced at the lower end of the market. I looked at two last week. Both were late pre-facelift cars. The cheaper one was a bit dog-eared inside, but the one for £9k was like new. For an extra grand, I'd take the one with the better interior.
If I get a 986, it'll have to be a facelift car. Glass rear window is a must for me, and I'm not keen on the ambers either.
I'm a fairly recent convert to autos. The 964 was my first (except for a Mk3 Granada back in the day), and I have to say I rather like them. It may be my age, but it's one less thing to be thinking about on the back lanes. I can keep both hands on the wheel, and pay full attention to any potential hazards on the narrow lanes around here. Gives me the confidence to press on a bit harder.
The one downside of the autos that I currently drive is overtaking. I'm always wondering how quickly they will respond, and how many gears they will downshift. The Tip in the 986 seemed a lot more predictable in full auto, and the steering wheel buttons were easier to use than moving the lever across the gate then flipping it forwards or backwards. It's made even worse in my current cars because Porsche and BMW do it differently - forwards for down in one, backwards in the other. Or, is it move the lever to the left to engage manual in one. right in the other? I have to look at the lever to remember, because the cars all do it a different way! Should be a lot easier to remember with buttons on the wheel!
I did prefer the interior of the 987, but the improvement over a really good, late, 986 wasn't as great as I'd expected. Full leather in the early car helped a lot. As for the exterior, in many ways I prefer the cleaner lines of the 986 - except for the headlights.
The dealer had just aquired a very early 986 - a dealer launch model in orange. It's had one owner, and only covered 1400 (yes, fourteen hundred) miles. Looks like the owner only drove it once a year, to get it serviced. Absolutely perfect in every way.
A good point about the 987 interior being maybe a bit flashy. I've got a feeling that the 986 (with full leather) will look "classic" in 10 years, while the 987 will look old hat, style over function. Style won't carry it's age as well as funtion will.
My 964's interior is in very good condition, but it is incredibly old-fashioned compared to many cars of similar age. That's all part of it's charm though.
I used to own a 2004 Mini Cooper S convertible. The interior intially looked good, but it was hard to live with. The flashy bits were fake, painted plastic pretending to be aluminium. It was all bit too styled, and it creaked and rattled. Drove me nuts.
The Z4 that replaced it is incredibly plain and simple in comparison, but it is well screwed together.
On balance, I prefer an interior that is functional and well built, with buttons and knobs that fall readily to hand. I think a full leather 986, with a few bits painted body colour, will suit me fine.
My 964's interior is in very good condition, but it is incredibly old-fashioned compared to many cars of similar age. That's all part of it's charm though.
I used to own a 2004 Mini Cooper S convertible. The interior intially looked good, but it was hard to live with. The flashy bits were fake, painted plastic pretending to be aluminium. It was all bit too styled, and it creaked and rattled. Drove me nuts.
The Z4 that replaced it is incredibly plain and simple in comparison, but it is well screwed together.
On balance, I prefer an interior that is functional and well built, with buttons and knobs that fall readily to hand. I think a full leather 986, with a few bits painted body colour, will suit me fine.
Well, I was all set to look out for a facelift 986S Tip, but I had a test drive in a 987 S manual, 55 plate, yesterday. Although I struggled a bit with the gearbox (wobbly left leg, and not quite sure if the short throw lever was actually in first gear) having not really driven a manual for 3 years, I soon got the hang of it.
I'm not sure if it was just the colour (speed yellow), but I really liked the car, and was sorely tempted to put down a deposit, despite the 964 not having sold yet.
The seats seemed to suit me better than the 986 (which were a little narrow in the backrest), and the interior was definitely a bit more modern.
The car was up for sale at a local dealer for £16k, with 35k miles on the clock. Xenons, Bose, heated seats, yellow centre console, yellow stitching. Comes freshly serviced, with nearly new tyres and full MOT.
Fair price?
I'm not sure if it was just the colour (speed yellow), but I really liked the car, and was sorely tempted to put down a deposit, despite the 964 not having sold yet.
The seats seemed to suit me better than the 986 (which were a little narrow in the backrest), and the interior was definitely a bit more modern.
The car was up for sale at a local dealer for £16k, with 35k miles on the clock. Xenons, Bose, heated seats, yellow centre console, yellow stitching. Comes freshly serviced, with nearly new tyres and full MOT.
Fair price?
nshooter35 said:
Hi clockworks
I am just going through the same decision process and was about to post a similar thread. I hope you don't mind me jumping in on your post.
I am also looking for either a 986 or 987 and have the budget for a "perfect" 986. I have been offered a late model 986 that has had a Hartech rebuild around 11k miles ago (due to IMS failure) and a very comprehensive service history. The seller is asking 12k for it. It has all the options I'd want on it and hence is perfect spec wise.
I'd be interested to know if people would swing for this or spend a few k extra and get a "perfect" 987? My budget is anywhere up to 15-20k. I've read a few posts on people going from a 986 to 987 and prefering the 987. I wonder if anyone has gone back to the 986?
No problem joining in with this thread.I am just going through the same decision process and was about to post a similar thread. I hope you don't mind me jumping in on your post.
I am also looking for either a 986 or 987 and have the budget for a "perfect" 986. I have been offered a late model 986 that has had a Hartech rebuild around 11k miles ago (due to IMS failure) and a very comprehensive service history. The seller is asking 12k for it. It has all the options I'd want on it and hence is perfect spec wise.
I'd be interested to know if people would swing for this or spend a few k extra and get a "perfect" 987? My budget is anywhere up to 15-20k. I've read a few posts on people going from a 986 to 987 and prefering the 987. I wonder if anyone has gone back to the 986?
I never realised that buying a Boxster could be so difficult! So many variations and potential "problems" to consider, and asking prices seem to be all over the place!
Looking at other 987s advertised, it seems that the yellow S that I looked at on Saturday was priced a little on the high side, but it was in very nice condition. There's also the "Cornwall Car Premium" to consider. Just about everything down here is priced at the top end, because there isn't that much choice, and it's a right pain to view cars up country. Bristol and back is a day out, especially at this time of year.
He seemed confident that the car will sell at his price, and he's probably right.
Also, I'm not sure about blasting around in a bright yellow car. Very easily spotted if you annoy someone with a bit of spirited overtaking!
I think, on reflection, that I'll go for an early 987 3.2S manual, and buy on condition/history rather than mileage/options/colour.
There are plenty out there between £10 and £15K, so I'll leave it to the broker to find me a good one.
Got to sell the 964 first. I think it's up for £40K.
evojam said:
If your 964 sells for for 40K why not look at a nice low miles 981 Boxster? Had one for a day while my 987 was in at the OPC and by the end of the day it had really grown on me and after jumping back in mine easy too see where Porsche have moved the game on with the 981 Boxster...
I can't justify spending that kind of money on a depreciating car. That's more than 2 years gross income for me now that I'm semi-retired. The idea is to put my original "investment" back in the bank, and spend the profit, plus whatever I get for my Z4, on a car. That means £15k max realistically.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmm, sounds like the 987 may be more suited to my age and limited abilities, or will I just be going faster when I run out of talent?Let's put it this way, will a 986 flatter my driving more than my 964 does, and will a 987 be a similar step up again from a 986?
I really struggle with comparing cars on a test drive. It takes me a few days to get used to a new car, to get comfortable with pushing it. Any half-decent car feels good to me at normal pace, it's only when I start pushing hard that I find things I don't like. The only cars that I've instantly hated have all been French.
The Z4 felt like a great car for a while. So did the Cooper S.
The only car that's continued to impress me for a long time is my E61. Traction control is a bit too eager sometimes, but apart from that it's spot on for a big old barge.
Thanks for the input. It's looking like a 987 is what I should be going for.
A 996 certainly has plenty going for it. Currently not that much more to buy, similar running costs, and a lot more potential to increase in value if I keep it long enough. Only problem is, I want a convertible, and I think 996 convertibles are very awkward looking cars.
A 996 certainly has plenty going for it. Currently not that much more to buy, similar running costs, and a lot more potential to increase in value if I keep it long enough. Only problem is, I want a convertible, and I think 996 convertibles are very awkward looking cars.
I've just spent an hour searching Autotrader for late 986 / early 987 S prices. Quite interesting, should've done that earlier.
I was expecting to see a big jump in dealer prices between 986 and 987, but there isn't. It pretty much just goes on age, mileage and spec. £10 to 12K for a facelift 986S, and £12 to 14K for a 987 3.2, with a private sale 3.4S Tip at £14k too.
For the extra £2K, I'll go for a 987.
Looks like the £16K 987 3.2 that I looked at is over priced. I guess that's the way it is down here, would be up to £2k cheaper up country.
I was expecting to see a big jump in dealer prices between 986 and 987, but there isn't. It pretty much just goes on age, mileage and spec. £10 to 12K for a facelift 986S, and £12 to 14K for a 987 3.2, with a private sale 3.4S Tip at £14k too.
For the extra £2K, I'll go for a 987.
Looks like the £16K 987 3.2 that I looked at is over priced. I guess that's the way it is down here, would be up to £2k cheaper up country.
Yes, I will need to travel, or pay someone else to do it for me.
It's been the same here for as long as I can remember. Most of the people that I know who have bought anything other than a normal family car have had to travel a few hundred miles to get a good car at a fair price. Cornwall has a very strange economy. Plenty of locals who scrape a living, but quite a few incomers with money to spend. House prices are up there with the Home Counties, but wages are pretty much the lowest in the country. Not much absolute poverty though, so it's a good place to live.
I've been here 17 years now, no way I'd move back.
It's been the same here for as long as I can remember. Most of the people that I know who have bought anything other than a normal family car have had to travel a few hundred miles to get a good car at a fair price. Cornwall has a very strange economy. Plenty of locals who scrape a living, but quite a few incomers with money to spend. House prices are up there with the Home Counties, but wages are pretty much the lowest in the country. Not much absolute poverty though, so it's a good place to live.
I've been here 17 years now, no way I'd move back.
My 964 has now been "reserved", broker is confident that the car will be sold next week.
I'd pretty much decided that I want a manual 987, so I went to see the broker yesterday, had an extended test drive in a 2.7 (58 plate, up for £16.5K, as he didn't have a 3.2 available). A good mix of A roads, traffic, and narrow twisty back lanes.
With my passenger calling out the severity of the bends and points where I needed to slow down, I was making much better "progress" than I normally would in any of my own cars, and the 2.7 was very impressive. I had confidence that the car would do what I wanted. Even after 3 years of ownership, I never felt this confident in the 964 (that's probably down to me!), and the Z4 would probably have spat me off the road into a hedge.
So, 987S it is. He's looking for the right car for me, and is hoping to have the whole deal finalised in a week or so. If he finds the right Boxster before the money comes through for the 964, he'll do the Z4/Boxster swap and deduct the cash when the funds are cleared.
Budget is set at £16K. I know that I could get one privately for less, but I'd have to do a lot of travelling, and chances are it'll need some money spending to bring it up to scratch. He expects to spend £1500 to £2000 on any car that he buys in, so whatever he gets for me will be fully sorted.
Now I need to research options for upgrading the audio, specifically adding a USB port. I've got a Dension Gateway in the E61, but I don't think this is an option unless the car has PCM?
I'd pretty much decided that I want a manual 987, so I went to see the broker yesterday, had an extended test drive in a 2.7 (58 plate, up for £16.5K, as he didn't have a 3.2 available). A good mix of A roads, traffic, and narrow twisty back lanes.
With my passenger calling out the severity of the bends and points where I needed to slow down, I was making much better "progress" than I normally would in any of my own cars, and the 2.7 was very impressive. I had confidence that the car would do what I wanted. Even after 3 years of ownership, I never felt this confident in the 964 (that's probably down to me!), and the Z4 would probably have spat me off the road into a hedge.
So, 987S it is. He's looking for the right car for me, and is hoping to have the whole deal finalised in a week or so. If he finds the right Boxster before the money comes through for the 964, he'll do the Z4/Boxster swap and deduct the cash when the funds are cleared.
Budget is set at £16K. I know that I could get one privately for less, but I'd have to do a lot of travelling, and chances are it'll need some money spending to bring it up to scratch. He expects to spend £1500 to £2000 on any car that he buys in, so whatever he gets for me will be fully sorted.
Now I need to research options for upgrading the audio, specifically adding a USB port. I've got a Dension Gateway in the E61, but I don't think this is an option unless the car has PCM?
I had quite a long chat with the guy about the relative merits of the 2.7 and 3.2. Apart from the initial cost - an extra £1500, all other things being equal - he couldn't see a downside to getting a 3.2. For longer journeys, like a trip to Europe, he'd take a 2.7. For a "fun" drive, he'd take a 3.2.
Since I rarely drive more than 150 miles in a day, the 3.2 seems like the best option for me.
Since I rarely drive more than 150 miles in a day, the 3.2 seems like the best option for me.
He warned me to stay away from the optional 19s. They look good, but spoil the car.
We talked about the different ride/handling characteristics of the 2.7 and S, and he felt that it was just as much down to the individual setup as the actual model, with geometry and the state of the various bushes playing a big part. He recommends having the alignment done annually for a daily driver. At a minimum, when new tyres are fitted.
Getting it done to factory settings may not be right. How the old tyres have worn needs to be interpreted, and the geo tweaked appropriately.
My regular tyre guy has said the same thing about MX5s and BMWs.
We talked about the different ride/handling characteristics of the 2.7 and S, and he felt that it was just as much down to the individual setup as the actual model, with geometry and the state of the various bushes playing a big part. He recommends having the alignment done annually for a daily driver. At a minimum, when new tyres are fitted.
Getting it done to factory settings may not be right. How the old tyres have worn needs to be interpreted, and the geo tweaked appropriately.
My regular tyre guy has said the same thing about MX5s and BMWs.
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