981 BGTS owner has loaded 781 BS for 2 days.......
Discussion
disclaimer:
if your a 718 owner, move onto another thread, this one is not for you.
if your a potential 718 owner, read on.
This is an extract from my journal on another forum. I'm not one for controversy and this is obviously a controversial subject. I would say emotive but most probably don't have a 718 to get emotive about lol. So the following is very much my own experience / view and I don't care if its not others.......
It is probably worth pointing out that to a potential owner looking for a new car, on finance etc.... a 981 is less attractive for none driving reasons, I fully understand that.........so hear goes....
So its been an interesting day today.......
A few months ago the rear view mirror fell off......doh! So I arranged for my local OPC to inspect the car for a warranty claim for a new mirror and took it in the following week. They rejected the claim for a new mirror ........... it needed a new windscreen !!!!! It was a 2 day job, sigh......
They could fit me in the following week but no courtesy car (which I don't really need). I asked how long I would have to wait to arrange a 718 as a courtesy car..... about 6 weeks. Now given I could secure the rear view mirror OK with car reg tape and it would give me the chance to really try the 718 I thought why not wait.....
So this morning I dropped my car off and took possession for 2 days of a 17 plate, 5k miler fully loaded (well almost) 718 Boxster S in ............ yellow.
Now I have driven a 718 boxster before, a none S when they first launched, for 30 min. At the time I had never driven a 981. So my intention was to really try and do an unbiased / honest comparison from a 981 GTS owner to as near as dammit similar spec 718 S. What an ideal opportunity for me to have my own very direct comparison / view. Obviously I am very conscious of all the controversy over the engine change but am very sensitive to 718 owners who have spent their hard earned cash on their pride and joy.
Having set that scene / intent I think I am obliged to point out at this point that 718 owners should probably stop reading this now. That statement alone was far from my intent / expectation but in summary before I get into the detail as why, there is simly no real comparison between the two. I find myself rather than being the expected position of giving pro's and cons and the differences not being as great as the press / bandwagon has made out based on my recollection of a brief test drive pre 981, rather more shocked at the differences than I ever imagined. If anything the differences really have been played down by the press.
Anyway with that out of the way, lets get onto some details for the 981 owners still obviously reading this...........
The 718 spec (from what I can see, I don't have the build sheet):
- S
- did I mention its yellow (love it)
- PDK
- Black Full Leather with Alu trim
- base seats (whatever they are called)
- BOSE
- auto dim / fold mirrors
- PASM
- PSE
- Sport Chrono
- heated seats
- NO climate (WTF, even OPC's can't spec it right!)
In other words probably about as close as possible as you can get to my spec 981 GTS, the ideal comparison.
First Impressions:
So on walking up to the car, it looks great. The colour and styling are spot on. to me the front end does not look as good / aggressive as the GTS but the rear end is great/clean/powerful lines. The colour just enhances the supercar feel.
On sitting in the car, its grubby, I have to look past that, its a demo, unvaleted, still warm from being returned by the previous user, my cars are always immaculate inside, nott he cars fault, its what I was expecting. Straight away the seats are not as comfortable / supportive as the sport plus seats in my GTS. The steering wheel looks aweful, fussy multifunction buttons, not as clean / sculptured as the GTS wheel. Its weird feeling leather, I've got so used to the alcantara in a boxster now. I can take it or leave it on the wheel but overall the fit / trim even with full leather does not feel as high quality as the GTS. The grain of the leather is cheaper, the alu trim, the leather stitching, none of it adds to the experience like the full GTS interior of my car.
Now for the big moment, the engine start. First a recap of what I love about my 981. first button I press is Sport on startup (this also turns on PSE), second is flick over to manual and I drive the car 95% of the time in manual using the flappy paddles now. The induction noise in 1st/2nd gear in ANY environment is simply the best I have every experienced short of a M3 CSL (it is actually probably better but its a while since I've driven one for direct comparison) or Ferrari, 430, 488 in race mode......
I startup the 718........WTF !!!! OMG !!!! ........ I hate myself for this but I can only repeat what I've read on forums, Subaru. now that shocked me. I have driven one before, at launch and I simply do not remember thinking that.....but that was pre 981. Now again to put into perspective I was a big jap fan back in the day. I had scoobies before they where playstation pin up cars, my last was a new import WRX on an S plate so when was that, back in '98 ? This thing sounded just like I remember a scooby with an aftermarket exhaust. I sat there in shock gripping the wheel.
I repeat again I sat there in shock, noooooooooo.
Then I remember I had not put into sport mode or switched on PSE. I went to press the sport button, doh! its not there, dial on the wheel, oh yeh I forgot. I turn the wheel, the dash display tells me I'm on sport mode, where is the mode light on the wheel..... its not there, gone. not functional at all but I love the fact the wheel on mine lights up in sport / sport plus. No great shakes but first impression is step backward. what was wrong with the button(s), easier to use whilst driving etc..... ? but mostly the car just has more blanks down there now, sad I know.
I press the PSE button...... nothing. The car by now just has this uncomfortable grumble...... I turn off and back on again, is it working ?
At this point the sales rep comes over and I wind the widow down, have I been sat there for ages in a time warp of shock looking stupid ? ...... no he is there to check there is enough petrol in it, with parting words of don't worry about filling it back up, cool. At that point I remember that the car has probably been fed standard unleaded and not high octance ? remember to bear that in mind I tell myself......
So that has broken the shock I was still in....... I'm off. I drive the car in manual, its what I'm used to now and by far the most fun way to drive a PDK.
The next thing that hits me is how light the steering is, no feel, artificial. I can only assume this car has power steering plus, mine does not. I hope it has as its simply aweful. If you have power steering plus on your 718/918 get it turned off (its a software switch an OPC can do). I'll give the car credit and assume its power steering plus. Again I can't remember my previous test drive being so light.
No my drive to where I was going of about 30 miles was 90% motorway from the OPC and I had pre decided to take a different route, 50:50 a road / B road. In the end I did double that as I simply could not believe the difference to my 981 and I wanted to try every type of driving I could. so there is more....
Out on the Road...
The first, most important and most obvious thing I can state is simply how boring I found the car to drive compared to my 981. Shocking. Now again to put this in context I'm lucky enough to drive so very nice metal at the extreme end of the scales, from Phantom luxury to Lambo mentalness. When I say boring I'm not on about speed. It is no doubt a faster / more capable car than my GTS, but so is the 991 GT3 I've been driving recently, etc... etc... No when I say boring I mean boring in the sense, or lack of, driving experience it gives you. This was actually the most shocking thing about the car, it is boring to drive. Yes the noise is a massive part of that, vastly underestimated by many but the power delivery is just as important. Put them both together as a package compared to the 981 GTS and the gulf in driving sensation is massive, not even close, shockingly wide. In fact it beggers believe.
I've stated before that to most buyers of a boxster, the 4FI v 6NA debate is meaningless. My recollection of the 718 I test drove was that to most it would sound / drive like a sports car ie what they have paid good money for and expect, they will be happy. But now I have a real, indepth knowledge of what Porsche achieved with the 981 I was simply left with a feeling of sadness, the step backwards in the driver experience is simply massive. i found myself contemplating, is this just simply more a GT car but the answer is no. It is no more comfortable in the real world than the 981, in fact compared to the GTS interior its a step back, yes the drive is "easier" to exploit but there is an underlying rumble/undertone to the engine which to be frank was simply unpleasant. I was constantly turning PSE on / off but it made as near as damn it no difference. In my car swithc PSE off and you know its off.
The only comparable I could find on my car was that the kick down / engine braking backfire, snare/crackle of the exhaust was comparable to the 981. Great fun, embarrasing at times. But the comparable up the rev range of induction noise was not only not comparable, its does not exist. The most fun part of driving the GTS is the feeling and noise up the gears in manual mode, it is simply sublime, addictive, organismic..... the same experience in the 718 is lame, a massive disappointment.... boring apart from the sensation of raw speed. I have no doubt I was going faster quicker in the 718 but it simply did not feel like it due to the massively subdued way you get there.
To be honest I expected to then go on about turbo lag etc... etc.... but to be honest its simply not relevent, it does not matter, I had lost interest in the car after 1 hour of driving it !
This honestly was not what I was expecting to write. Yes I was expecting to be naturally biased (as I always am now FI v a good NA package) but I cannot get past what a backward step Porsche have taken. I kept on thinking wow for all the wrong reasons, wow how can it sound so bad, wow how can it feel so different, even how can I be going so fast and not enjoying it, sad, sad sad.
I will be driving the 718 for the next day and half, I've got a good run planned tomorrow but I know already all it is doing is proving how good a 981 is, the 718 is dead to me and that is very sad indeed.
ps to put things in perspective the Macan GTS is simply more fun to drive, that can't be right, can it ?
if your a 718 owner, move onto another thread, this one is not for you.
if your a potential 718 owner, read on.
This is an extract from my journal on another forum. I'm not one for controversy and this is obviously a controversial subject. I would say emotive but most probably don't have a 718 to get emotive about lol. So the following is very much my own experience / view and I don't care if its not others.......
It is probably worth pointing out that to a potential owner looking for a new car, on finance etc.... a 981 is less attractive for none driving reasons, I fully understand that.........so hear goes....
So its been an interesting day today.......
A few months ago the rear view mirror fell off......doh! So I arranged for my local OPC to inspect the car for a warranty claim for a new mirror and took it in the following week. They rejected the claim for a new mirror ........... it needed a new windscreen !!!!! It was a 2 day job, sigh......
They could fit me in the following week but no courtesy car (which I don't really need). I asked how long I would have to wait to arrange a 718 as a courtesy car..... about 6 weeks. Now given I could secure the rear view mirror OK with car reg tape and it would give me the chance to really try the 718 I thought why not wait.....
So this morning I dropped my car off and took possession for 2 days of a 17 plate, 5k miler fully loaded (well almost) 718 Boxster S in ............ yellow.
Now I have driven a 718 boxster before, a none S when they first launched, for 30 min. At the time I had never driven a 981. So my intention was to really try and do an unbiased / honest comparison from a 981 GTS owner to as near as dammit similar spec 718 S. What an ideal opportunity for me to have my own very direct comparison / view. Obviously I am very conscious of all the controversy over the engine change but am very sensitive to 718 owners who have spent their hard earned cash on their pride and joy.
Having set that scene / intent I think I am obliged to point out at this point that 718 owners should probably stop reading this now. That statement alone was far from my intent / expectation but in summary before I get into the detail as why, there is simly no real comparison between the two. I find myself rather than being the expected position of giving pro's and cons and the differences not being as great as the press / bandwagon has made out based on my recollection of a brief test drive pre 981, rather more shocked at the differences than I ever imagined. If anything the differences really have been played down by the press.
Anyway with that out of the way, lets get onto some details for the 981 owners still obviously reading this...........
The 718 spec (from what I can see, I don't have the build sheet):
- S
- did I mention its yellow (love it)
- PDK
- Black Full Leather with Alu trim
- base seats (whatever they are called)
- BOSE
- auto dim / fold mirrors
- PASM
- PSE
- Sport Chrono
- heated seats
- NO climate (WTF, even OPC's can't spec it right!)
In other words probably about as close as possible as you can get to my spec 981 GTS, the ideal comparison.
First Impressions:
So on walking up to the car, it looks great. The colour and styling are spot on. to me the front end does not look as good / aggressive as the GTS but the rear end is great/clean/powerful lines. The colour just enhances the supercar feel.
On sitting in the car, its grubby, I have to look past that, its a demo, unvaleted, still warm from being returned by the previous user, my cars are always immaculate inside, nott he cars fault, its what I was expecting. Straight away the seats are not as comfortable / supportive as the sport plus seats in my GTS. The steering wheel looks aweful, fussy multifunction buttons, not as clean / sculptured as the GTS wheel. Its weird feeling leather, I've got so used to the alcantara in a boxster now. I can take it or leave it on the wheel but overall the fit / trim even with full leather does not feel as high quality as the GTS. The grain of the leather is cheaper, the alu trim, the leather stitching, none of it adds to the experience like the full GTS interior of my car.
Now for the big moment, the engine start. First a recap of what I love about my 981. first button I press is Sport on startup (this also turns on PSE), second is flick over to manual and I drive the car 95% of the time in manual using the flappy paddles now. The induction noise in 1st/2nd gear in ANY environment is simply the best I have every experienced short of a M3 CSL (it is actually probably better but its a while since I've driven one for direct comparison) or Ferrari, 430, 488 in race mode......
I startup the 718........WTF !!!! OMG !!!! ........ I hate myself for this but I can only repeat what I've read on forums, Subaru. now that shocked me. I have driven one before, at launch and I simply do not remember thinking that.....but that was pre 981. Now again to put into perspective I was a big jap fan back in the day. I had scoobies before they where playstation pin up cars, my last was a new import WRX on an S plate so when was that, back in '98 ? This thing sounded just like I remember a scooby with an aftermarket exhaust. I sat there in shock gripping the wheel.
I repeat again I sat there in shock, noooooooooo.
Then I remember I had not put into sport mode or switched on PSE. I went to press the sport button, doh! its not there, dial on the wheel, oh yeh I forgot. I turn the wheel, the dash display tells me I'm on sport mode, where is the mode light on the wheel..... its not there, gone. not functional at all but I love the fact the wheel on mine lights up in sport / sport plus. No great shakes but first impression is step backward. what was wrong with the button(s), easier to use whilst driving etc..... ? but mostly the car just has more blanks down there now, sad I know.
I press the PSE button...... nothing. The car by now just has this uncomfortable grumble...... I turn off and back on again, is it working ?
At this point the sales rep comes over and I wind the widow down, have I been sat there for ages in a time warp of shock looking stupid ? ...... no he is there to check there is enough petrol in it, with parting words of don't worry about filling it back up, cool. At that point I remember that the car has probably been fed standard unleaded and not high octance ? remember to bear that in mind I tell myself......
So that has broken the shock I was still in....... I'm off. I drive the car in manual, its what I'm used to now and by far the most fun way to drive a PDK.
The next thing that hits me is how light the steering is, no feel, artificial. I can only assume this car has power steering plus, mine does not. I hope it has as its simply aweful. If you have power steering plus on your 718/918 get it turned off (its a software switch an OPC can do). I'll give the car credit and assume its power steering plus. Again I can't remember my previous test drive being so light.
No my drive to where I was going of about 30 miles was 90% motorway from the OPC and I had pre decided to take a different route, 50:50 a road / B road. In the end I did double that as I simply could not believe the difference to my 981 and I wanted to try every type of driving I could. so there is more....
Out on the Road...
The first, most important and most obvious thing I can state is simply how boring I found the car to drive compared to my 981. Shocking. Now again to put this in context I'm lucky enough to drive so very nice metal at the extreme end of the scales, from Phantom luxury to Lambo mentalness. When I say boring I'm not on about speed. It is no doubt a faster / more capable car than my GTS, but so is the 991 GT3 I've been driving recently, etc... etc... No when I say boring I mean boring in the sense, or lack of, driving experience it gives you. This was actually the most shocking thing about the car, it is boring to drive. Yes the noise is a massive part of that, vastly underestimated by many but the power delivery is just as important. Put them both together as a package compared to the 981 GTS and the gulf in driving sensation is massive, not even close, shockingly wide. In fact it beggers believe.
I've stated before that to most buyers of a boxster, the 4FI v 6NA debate is meaningless. My recollection of the 718 I test drove was that to most it would sound / drive like a sports car ie what they have paid good money for and expect, they will be happy. But now I have a real, indepth knowledge of what Porsche achieved with the 981 I was simply left with a feeling of sadness, the step backwards in the driver experience is simply massive. i found myself contemplating, is this just simply more a GT car but the answer is no. It is no more comfortable in the real world than the 981, in fact compared to the GTS interior its a step back, yes the drive is "easier" to exploit but there is an underlying rumble/undertone to the engine which to be frank was simply unpleasant. I was constantly turning PSE on / off but it made as near as damn it no difference. In my car swithc PSE off and you know its off.
The only comparable I could find on my car was that the kick down / engine braking backfire, snare/crackle of the exhaust was comparable to the 981. Great fun, embarrasing at times. But the comparable up the rev range of induction noise was not only not comparable, its does not exist. The most fun part of driving the GTS is the feeling and noise up the gears in manual mode, it is simply sublime, addictive, organismic..... the same experience in the 718 is lame, a massive disappointment.... boring apart from the sensation of raw speed. I have no doubt I was going faster quicker in the 718 but it simply did not feel like it due to the massively subdued way you get there.
To be honest I expected to then go on about turbo lag etc... etc.... but to be honest its simply not relevent, it does not matter, I had lost interest in the car after 1 hour of driving it !
This honestly was not what I was expecting to write. Yes I was expecting to be naturally biased (as I always am now FI v a good NA package) but I cannot get past what a backward step Porsche have taken. I kept on thinking wow for all the wrong reasons, wow how can it sound so bad, wow how can it feel so different, even how can I be going so fast and not enjoying it, sad, sad sad.
I will be driving the 718 for the next day and half, I've got a good run planned tomorrow but I know already all it is doing is proving how good a 981 is, the 718 is dead to me and that is very sad indeed.
ps to put things in perspective the Macan GTS is simply more fun to drive, that can't be right, can it ?
Hmmmm not sure about selling sell I've seen too many sat in OPC show rooms. Glasgow had 5 last time I was there and my local had 4 today.....
I can't express how big the gulf in driving pleasure is. So much so it will be really interesting to see:
- how 981 prices hold v 718. Normally I would say they won't and no doubt they will have an effect but it's got to make a difference that the 981 is such a better experience.
- the 718 GTS / GT4 will be 6NA or not. Surely Porsche KNOW. If these are NA engines as rumoured it's got to be a massive slap in the face to current owners.
I've driven the car more tonight and note:
- there is a difference with PSE on/off but it's awful with either
- you cannot engine brake. One of the tricks with getting to grips with the 981 PDK is engine braking, it's awesome for an auto box. It's impossible so far as I can see in the 718. Not only that it seems to get confused and I experienced some truly shocking gear changes. The car just seems to do the opposite to the 981.
One of the great pleasures I've had is learn8ng how to drive the PDK, once learned you get that sublime flowing momentum you get with a good manual box but without the risks of rev matching the clutch etc..... In the 718 I felt mostly like the car was trying to drive me. It made me want to stick the car in auto and ease off.
And what's with the button in the middle of the sport m9de selector, 20 second countdown of what I can see is sports plus mode.......why? Just put the car in manual, sports chrono is crap at anything other than lazy driving. Very gimmicky to make someone not used to driving a sports car feel like they are driving fast ? The risk of it counting down and switching out and up the gears when you may need the revs is just pointless !
I'm still in shock, my word of the day
DJMC said:
25 seconds would be a long overtake, but I see your point. You're nearly there and the power drops off. Like you say, a gimmick.
I've played with it some more and to be fair its not just sport plus mode 0n a timer , its a sort of sport plus plus mode but the same comments apply ie just put it in manual and have full control.overunder12g said:
Interesting viewpoint.
I have recently bought a 718 after having 981 etc. Both Boxster/Cayman versions over the last 10 years.
Let me say here that I use mine as a daily business car and cover over 20k miles per year.
Impressions so far? The 718 is a far superior car. Sure the engine noise is not as musical as the previous flat 6 and, if it was a weekend fun toy then that might have some bearing.
As it is the overall improvements on the 718, weigh in it's favour.
Fine if you only take a brief test drive and miss the flat six song. But, overall the 718 is a far better proposition for me. Only downside being the engine noise? I can live with that.
As for weekend toy? My choice would be a 986 but not for 20k per year.
Just my view from over 100k miles in various versions of a great car.
Before today I expected to agree with that viewpoint fully , a bit like when the z4 replaced the z3 ie a better car but I still preferred my z3m but could fully understand others preferring the z4..........but in this case I really can't .......it's simply not a nice sports car at all, whether as a weekend toy or daily. That's not just the noise but the way the engine drives. It is far too agricultural to be enjoyable compared to so many other cars, it really does feel like a throwback to a 90's jap engine and rougher than many modern turbo diesels, very very sadI have recently bought a 718 after having 981 etc. Both Boxster/Cayman versions over the last 10 years.
Let me say here that I use mine as a daily business car and cover over 20k miles per year.
Impressions so far? The 718 is a far superior car. Sure the engine noise is not as musical as the previous flat 6 and, if it was a weekend fun toy then that might have some bearing.
As it is the overall improvements on the 718, weigh in it's favour.
Fine if you only take a brief test drive and miss the flat six song. But, overall the 718 is a far better proposition for me. Only downside being the engine noise? I can live with that.
As for weekend toy? My choice would be a 986 but not for 20k per year.
Just my view from over 100k miles in various versions of a great car.
As a final update......the 718 was returned today after about as mixed a day driving as you could get (short of getting it on track)...... 50 mile motorway commute, 50 A/B road in the wet, followed by 25 mile motorway with roof down.
I would imagine (cough) that the car is only in its comfort zone going in a straight line on the motorway, the faster the more it comes into its own as you go up and down the gears. It is faster, more responsive than the 981 without a shadow of a doubt. There is no "event" to this other than the raw shove in the back from the turbo. Do the same in the 981 and its slower but that only gives you more time to appreciate the experience it gives you. The shove in the back is not as great but the feeling of wanting to do it again and again is much greater.
Here is the rub, get off the motorway and the 718 is truly an awful drive. All that I hate in FI cars as their worst and it really does sound terrible. Now I'm a bit weird, I enjoy driving in the wet. The 718 is typical turbo power delivery in the wet, slightly scary, unpredictable and therefore unpleasant, you have to drive well within your ability as you feel it may bite you at any time. That all or nothing digital power delivery of a turbo I moved away from a long time ago when I realized driving pleaseure is not about straight line speed. If I'd done the same B roads in the wet in the 981 I know I would have enjoyed the drive so much more. The power delivery is just so much more analogue, linear and therefore predicatable. I will happily get the rear end to squirm in the 981 with full confidence it will fall into line with slight adjustments of throttle, engine braking into deep pends to carry the revs through with a balance and smoothness that is rewarding and enjoyable i.e. Fun. It is simply not possible to get the same experience in the 718. The car feels unsettled, the auto box gets confused, the power delivery is uncertain. It was clear I would never have a 718 in PDK. A manual box would make it more controllable but I fear at the expense of exaggerating the turbo lag the PDK tries to hide. The arguments that the 718 is a better handling car are totally irrelevent, any difference being ruined, masked by the engine.
There is turbo lag and don't let anyone tell you there is not. The PDK box is definately compromised in trying to mask it, but by example I did an overtake today, dropping the gears in preparation when I had to hesitate before committing, that slight hesitation took the turbo off boost and when committed there was that classic turbo "nothing" before all hell broke lose and the shove in the back. No doubt there are those who love that classic turbo experience, fine when in a straight line and in the dry but I would much much rather have the smooth predicatable, controllable power delivery of a great NA engine. Yes I may be a tenth slower but boy does it feel safer and more enjoyable getting there.
So finally it was time to hand the car back. To be fair I was asked did I like it. We had an honest chat about why I did not. The only real response was "the GTS is a great car". It is and I appreciate it even more now. The drive home in heavy rain was sublime, fun, rewarding everything the 718 was not.
Ps I did like the color though ;-)
I would imagine (cough) that the car is only in its comfort zone going in a straight line on the motorway, the faster the more it comes into its own as you go up and down the gears. It is faster, more responsive than the 981 without a shadow of a doubt. There is no "event" to this other than the raw shove in the back from the turbo. Do the same in the 981 and its slower but that only gives you more time to appreciate the experience it gives you. The shove in the back is not as great but the feeling of wanting to do it again and again is much greater.
Here is the rub, get off the motorway and the 718 is truly an awful drive. All that I hate in FI cars as their worst and it really does sound terrible. Now I'm a bit weird, I enjoy driving in the wet. The 718 is typical turbo power delivery in the wet, slightly scary, unpredictable and therefore unpleasant, you have to drive well within your ability as you feel it may bite you at any time. That all or nothing digital power delivery of a turbo I moved away from a long time ago when I realized driving pleaseure is not about straight line speed. If I'd done the same B roads in the wet in the 981 I know I would have enjoyed the drive so much more. The power delivery is just so much more analogue, linear and therefore predicatable. I will happily get the rear end to squirm in the 981 with full confidence it will fall into line with slight adjustments of throttle, engine braking into deep pends to carry the revs through with a balance and smoothness that is rewarding and enjoyable i.e. Fun. It is simply not possible to get the same experience in the 718. The car feels unsettled, the auto box gets confused, the power delivery is uncertain. It was clear I would never have a 718 in PDK. A manual box would make it more controllable but I fear at the expense of exaggerating the turbo lag the PDK tries to hide. The arguments that the 718 is a better handling car are totally irrelevent, any difference being ruined, masked by the engine.
There is turbo lag and don't let anyone tell you there is not. The PDK box is definately compromised in trying to mask it, but by example I did an overtake today, dropping the gears in preparation when I had to hesitate before committing, that slight hesitation took the turbo off boost and when committed there was that classic turbo "nothing" before all hell broke lose and the shove in the back. No doubt there are those who love that classic turbo experience, fine when in a straight line and in the dry but I would much much rather have the smooth predicatable, controllable power delivery of a great NA engine. Yes I may be a tenth slower but boy does it feel safer and more enjoyable getting there.
So finally it was time to hand the car back. To be fair I was asked did I like it. We had an honest chat about why I did not. The only real response was "the GTS is a great car". It is and I appreciate it even more now. The drive home in heavy rain was sublime, fun, rewarding everything the 718 was not.
Ps I did like the color though ;-)
Believe me I don't usually have such strong views, each to their own but I was truly shocked at the experiences and what Porsche have done to such a great driving machine
Of course there are plenty who will own and enjoy their car but it could / should have been so much more.
It may well be the end of another era for porsche with the shift to FI / hybrid cars which in time will be inconsequential to new buyers. Hopefully the 718 is a stepping stone to better things much as the 996 was ;-)
Of course there are plenty who will own and enjoy their car but it could / should have been so much more.
It may well be the end of another era for porsche with the shift to FI / hybrid cars which in time will be inconsequential to new buyers. Hopefully the 718 is a stepping stone to better things much as the 996 was ;-)
Pinball said:
I don't know if you read my thoughts on my 718 loan car on the other thread. Personally I found the sports response button quite useful for overtakes, especially as it gave immediate power. That said, it may well be a bit of a band aid to circumvent turbo lag 
I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling.
What colour was it?
Yellow, my only previous examples of yellow cars have been ferrari, the last being an F12 TDF (which got flipped in a week). I've always loved the 981 / 718 shape, it is a mini ferrari , the yellow suited it so well. I've had some cars with pretty awful turbo lag. To the point where your actually watching by the rev counter slowly build up until the boost comes on. That said I've found the 718 feels a lot more linear and smoother than other turbo cars I've driven, the downside is that you generally have to be mindful of keeping in the power band with the turbo spooling. What colour was it?
n4aat said:
I don't think it was turbo related. Power delivery felt linear to me once on the boil. I guess it is a little different driving on a track as opposed to public roads where there is a lot more off throttle time which requires the turbo to wind up again. It is definitely power related though. The 718 has so much more torque in the mid range. You need more delicate inputs with the 718 compared to the 981. Situations where you can plant your foot in the 981 need more judicious inputs. I also think the N1 tyres are more progressive than the N0 allowing you to approach the limit of grip more comfortably with a much wider window.
I think driving the 718 on track would flatter it compared to road use. It was by far at its happiest on the motorway when turbo boost could be retained much easier. On "real" roads in "real" situations it is what it is ie a turbo engined car. You can't beat physics no matter how good the turbo engine but this was by no means towards the good end of being a good turbo drive. I still can't quite get over how bad the driving experience was to me. Yes the 981 is such a good engine / drive that it suffers from that comparison, Yes I am not really into Turbo engines any more much preferring NA engines and I expected to be biased to that, its why I bought a 981 in the first place BUT I drive many many powerful turbo sports cars many of which I like / can appreciate. The 718 was at the opposite end of the scale for me, a horrible experience. A lot of that feeling is obviously subjective but the car just did not feel right in many ways :- induction sound
- PDK gearbox trying to mask turbo lack producing some truly horrid gearchanges, at times pushing on when it should be engine braking and no blip down aural sensation to accompany it
- unpredictability of turbo "snap" in the wet/twisties does not inspire as much confidence
- an underlying "roughness" to the engine tone/feel
- the steering was just too light for me. My understanding was that PS+ assists at low speeds and then turns off. I did not realise it turns off when sport mode activated. I drove in manual mainly but sport mode when not (with PSE on and off) and in all circumstances it just felt too light for me. Thats very much a personal preference of course.
I'm sure Porsche will get to grips with this with the next version, there is plenty of scope for it IMHO ;-)
I happen to own a Z3m, it's a very late S54 engines schnitzer car, one of 4 imola in RHD. Let's just say the Z4m was to large / refined for me lol. As much as I love the straight 6 unit (mine has a red line lifted to 8k) it does not compare to the sound of the boxster 6 even with a full eisenmann race exhaust fitted. It is louder though lol
Jefferson Steelflex said:
OP - it does appear from what you've written that there is a little bit of confirmation bias in your assessment. You expected to hate it and that's exactly what you've found.
Your write-up is also contrary to every single professional road test I've read or watched. They all say the 718 is a better car in almost every respect versus the 981, bar the engine noise. I've finally driven both and i couldn't tell much difference between the two (but I'm not exactly a driving god so no surprise there), apart from the engine noise was certainly louder in the 981.
We all have different opinions, and not everyone cares about a screaming engine. I've got a 718 on order and i may still change my mind if there is a 981 GTS for sale nearer the time i am ready to take delivery, but I won't be upset if I get to keep my 718. Yes it doesn't sound as good but that's not the be-all and end-all for many people, including me.
I do appreciate the write up though, it's certainly food for thought and something to explore in more depth when I get to the PEC day.
Actually I did not expect to hate it. As implied I expected to prefer the 981 but I was looking forward to driving the 781. I waited longer to take my car in to specifically try a 718. Why do that if I knew I would hate it ? There are plenty of turbo cars I enjoy driving I just prefer NA engines generally. I was not expecting to even write about it. THe fact I have is an indication of how genuinely shocked I was by the experience.Your write-up is also contrary to every single professional road test I've read or watched. They all say the 718 is a better car in almost every respect versus the 981, bar the engine noise. I've finally driven both and i couldn't tell much difference between the two (but I'm not exactly a driving god so no surprise there), apart from the engine noise was certainly louder in the 981.
We all have different opinions, and not everyone cares about a screaming engine. I've got a 718 on order and i may still change my mind if there is a 981 GTS for sale nearer the time i am ready to take delivery, but I won't be upset if I get to keep my 718. Yes it doesn't sound as good but that's not the be-all and end-all for many people, including me.
I do appreciate the write up though, it's certainly food for thought and something to explore in more depth when I get to the PEC day.
Porsche718S said:
Nail on the head - they're just DIFFERENT. In turn making much of the rhetoric on here and in the press surrounding the engine drivel. I mean, what are the press going to comment on if not the different engine when the rest of the car is just more of the same but improved in every respect. Switching from the flat-6 was always going to be the headline act and so it has proved.
What we read time and again on here is current owners proclaiming the 718's engine is crap (and hence the car is in some way deficient as a Porsche) due to THEIR preferences, whilst those who actually prefer the engine in 718 are conveniently ignored (even passively aggressively ridiculed in some instances...lets all remember it's been suggested on a number of occasions that the buyers of a 718 are now buying the car only for the brand...pompous in the extreme). It seems current owners can't judge the 718 in its own right and can't help but draw negative comparison with their current car?
I prefer the engine in the 718 (strange for many of you, but true). I very much like the way it sounds, it's very unique and when you're not in test drive mode and simply stabbing the throttle everywhere to see how fast it is and desperately trying to drive it off boost to be able to say the lag is awful (which it isn't by the way, when the car is driven normally, although I can see how it can be easily provoked) it has a very unique character all of its own that makes the car very enjoyable. It's also way more flexible and relaxing when you need it to be and is more economical (it doesn't drive anything like a diesel, just because it has meaningful torque below 5000rpm does not give it diesel characteristics - it revs very hard past 7000rpm). The outright performance speaks for itself.
If sound is more important than these attributes for you then fair enough...but this should not be a commentary on the 718 to the extreme that we often read on here, rather it is buying preference and we all have a choice in this regard.
Yep if the sound is for you its great in traffic in a striaght line ;-)What we read time and again on here is current owners proclaiming the 718's engine is crap (and hence the car is in some way deficient as a Porsche) due to THEIR preferences, whilst those who actually prefer the engine in 718 are conveniently ignored (even passively aggressively ridiculed in some instances...lets all remember it's been suggested on a number of occasions that the buyers of a 718 are now buying the car only for the brand...pompous in the extreme). It seems current owners can't judge the 718 in its own right and can't help but draw negative comparison with their current car?
I prefer the engine in the 718 (strange for many of you, but true). I very much like the way it sounds, it's very unique and when you're not in test drive mode and simply stabbing the throttle everywhere to see how fast it is and desperately trying to drive it off boost to be able to say the lag is awful (which it isn't by the way, when the car is driven normally, although I can see how it can be easily provoked) it has a very unique character all of its own that makes the car very enjoyable. It's also way more flexible and relaxing when you need it to be and is more economical (it doesn't drive anything like a diesel, just because it has meaningful torque below 5000rpm does not give it diesel characteristics - it revs very hard past 7000rpm). The outright performance speaks for itself.
If sound is more important than these attributes for you then fair enough...but this should not be a commentary on the 718 to the extreme that we often read on here, rather it is buying preference and we all have a choice in this regard.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Great post, the AMG TT engine does of course sound much better than the 718, one of the best FI engines out there. The first car I owned in my name as a metro Turbo, I loved it but it did have a dodgy carb which I had to unscrew and pump by hand to stop it sticking lol I then moved onto more powerful turbo cars for many years and never really appreciated the VTEC engines depsite having one of the first S2000 in the country (flipped to a TV presenter after a few weeks) I then b egan to appreciate that power and stright line speed are not necessarily better drivers cars ;-)ps the scoobies where fun though Porsche718S said:
Simply because there are still relatively few 718's around. They are now starting to trickle through in larger numbers, but you're still looking at 9-12 months delivery for a non-S and OPC's will be wary of racking up too many miles on the few 718's they do have. Macan's are still in a similar situation delivery wise, but are far less sensitive to mileage.
Factory tooling changes etc apparently caused the delivery schedules to move to the right earlier this year, but they can't make them fast enough according to my dealer who has orders waiting for allocation 12-15 cars deep on both models for both Boxster and Cayman. Supply to the U.K. has been severely limited.
It seems buyers don't believe the drivel posted on the internet and are enjoying a fantastic Porsche (and are prepared to wait for the privilege).
Believe me I could walk into a 718 tomorrow, the dealers are sitting on plenty of new stock, makes you wonder if they filled allocations with cancelled orders. There is a great spec orange 718 at my local OPC, I wont buy i becasue it not as good a car , simplezFactory tooling changes etc apparently caused the delivery schedules to move to the right earlier this year, but they can't make them fast enough according to my dealer who has orders waiting for allocation 12-15 cars deep on both models for both Boxster and Cayman. Supply to the U.K. has been severely limited.
It seems buyers don't believe the drivel posted on the internet and are enjoying a fantastic Porsche (and are prepared to wait for the privilege).
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff