Living with a McLaren 650s Spider as an (almost) daily
Discussion
12pack said:
With all due respect to you, Dave, I feel I must now comment on the ongoing driving comparison between a 360 and a 650s. Sorry, but they are just in different leagues. I was looking into a 360 when I needed to dump my horrible 355, but went into the brand new V12 Vantage instead because that felt so much stronger, and more alive.
And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
It may well be the steering ratio - but even if that's the case, I think I prefer the tighter turn in of the 360. That might just be because I've owned it 6 years vs 6 weeks though, and am used to it.And now the 650 feels just that must stronger than the V12 Vantage. I fear a 360 is nowhere in sight.
Based on the nicely detailed descriptions, I do think you are comparing how the cars feel at 5/10ths, where the Mac is by design comfortably loping along. Regarding your feeling like the 650 is pulling wide - as commented somewhere back earlier - I think you are just comparing the steering ratio.
Sorry if I come across as some kind of McLaren fanatic, but I do drive my cars hard and on track, so I feel like I must comment to give another dimension to the comparison regarding the driving experience.
But I'm only commenting on the driving comparison - certainly appreciate your detailed comments on all the niggles. Very interested to hear if and how your dealer resolves them.
Performance wise, I agree the 650 is in a different league, and indeed - down a twisty road it can compete with the 360 even at 5/10ths. However, I think that there's more to the "fun" aspect of a car than how quickly it can go and I'm not sure (yet) that the 650 beats the 360 in that comparison.
I have taken the 360 on track - albeit only on the supercar weekend with passengers - but it does mean I "know" the car a lot more than I do the 650. I'd really like to take the 650 on a track - either at the next supercar weekend or before, and I think I'd get to know its capabilities a lot more if I did - but stories of chocolate discs and £12k replacement costs (plus the risk that it would void warranty claims) makes me a bit nervous.
I still love the 650, and I'm still glad I bought it - I don't regret it. But I'm not sure yet whether it will be a long term ownership or an expensive short one.
jtremlett said:
So, you're using the 650 daily and the 360 is an occasional sunny Sunday morning, roof down, jaunt for the hell of it.
Only way the roof is going down on my 360 is with an angle grider 
Desert Dragon said:
I find the comparison between 360 and 650 very interesting. 650s coming across as a 2 seat 2wd 911 turbo in a Saville Row suit.
Whats 650s like to get in and out of Davek on a cold wet day? Any embarrassing or difficult moments getting in and out?
It's fine. The novelty of the doors does wear off quite quickly - but you develop a knack for getting in / out pretty quickly (I'd say getting out is easier than getting in for some reason). My car has comfort entry on the seat (goes back as far as possible when you open the door to get out), but not on the steering wheel.Whats 650s like to get in and out of Davek on a cold wet day? Any embarrassing or difficult moments getting in and out?
I've developed a habit of putting my hand against the bolster when I get in and out, so I'm not rubbing on it at all.
McLaren have told me that the leaking roof has been fixed by reseating the seal - will be tested tomorrow morning. Headlights have been adjusted - although I suspect that may not make much difference because only the passenger side was slightly low according to the mechanic, so that was the only adjustment.
Creaking dash couldn't be replicated but since they knew which panel it was, they've made sure it won't make noise again.
Mirror problem - and other niggles - couldn't be replicated.
Sounds like it will be ready to collect tomorrow. Hopefully with the points above fixed, but whether it will be niggle free, or have decent visibility at night I'm not sure yet.
McLaren have told me that the leaking roof has been fixed by reseating the seal - will be tested tomorrow morning. Headlights have been adjusted - although I suspect that may not make much difference because only the passenger side was slightly low according to the mechanic, so that was the only adjustment.
Creaking dash couldn't be replicated but since they knew which panel it was, they've made sure it won't make noise again.
Mirror problem - and other niggles - couldn't be replicated.
Sounds like it will be ready to collect tomorrow. Hopefully with the points above fixed, but whether it will be niggle free, or have decent visibility at night I'm not sure yet.
Boxer50 said:
I've been using my 650S Spider as a DD for four plus years now. Fortunately not had any of the issues you reference. Its been completely drama free.
I'm hoping mine will be soon!Got the car back on Friday. Hasn't really rained much since then so can't be sure the leak is fixed - visibly, the seal still looks uneven between the roof panels so we'll see.
Also not driven down a dark road yet so the lights haven been tested either. I think the dashboard noise has gone although this morning seems to have been traded for a noise on the passenger side. Hard to say exactly where it's coming from, but I think it's roughly the passenger air vent area. If it continues, they can sort it at the service in December.
Took the car out for a run this morning - not really enough to be completely traffic free, but still managed a decent run. Great fun although I hope the speed camera signs were lying....
Still looks gorgeous.
Headlights are still crap. Maybe marginally less crap, but still crap. I don't really care whether they're pointing at the right level in whatever test they do - they are too low, and most of the light is too close to the front of the car when using high beam.
Don't know if it still leaks - it's finally stopped raining (at least, it hasn't rained very hard).
Noise from passenger side of the dash is definitely still there this morning (but as I said, that's not the noise they fixed, and that at least does seem to have gone).
And when I started the car today, it told me the rear right tyre pressure was low. I guess that's not a fault, since I was warned when I bought it that the car would start doing it as soon as it got to October. Given that it knows the pressure AND temperature of the tyres, it really should be capable of not throwing spurious error messages just because the temperature has dropped.
It's great to drive, and it looks fabulous. On the other hand, I'm not somebody who likes things being wrong with my car - and even if they're just minor niggles (or in the case of the tyres "they all do that sir") - it's a pain in the arse!
Don't know if it still leaks - it's finally stopped raining (at least, it hasn't rained very hard).
Noise from passenger side of the dash is definitely still there this morning (but as I said, that's not the noise they fixed, and that at least does seem to have gone).
And when I started the car today, it told me the rear right tyre pressure was low. I guess that's not a fault, since I was warned when I bought it that the car would start doing it as soon as it got to October. Given that it knows the pressure AND temperature of the tyres, it really should be capable of not throwing spurious error messages just because the temperature has dropped.
It's great to drive, and it looks fabulous. On the other hand, I'm not somebody who likes things being wrong with my car - and even if they're just minor niggles (or in the case of the tyres "they all do that sir") - it's a pain in the arse!
12pack said:
davek_964 said:
And when I started the car today, it told me the rear right tyre pressure was low. I guess that's not a fault, since I was warned when I bought it that the car would start doing it as soon as it got to October.
What's that about? Are you saying you were told this is an issue with the car - or just that given that its colder outside - the pressure is now lower (PV=nRT)?I was told it's very common with these cars, and they have a lot of people phoning up / coming back to say there is a fault with the car - so basically, he was warning me in advance.
And sure enough..........
My Aston never had this problem. However, to be fair - when I hit a pothole and blew two tyres on the Aston, I got 100 yards down the road and had to stop because the car was pulling hard to the left. Got out, and found the LHS tyres were completely flat - drove another few hundred yards to find somewhere to dump the car.
Recovery came, and put the car on the back of the truck. When we got back home, reversed off the truck - and at that point, as I was about to reverse into my drive the display said : Check tyre pressures.
So maybe the Aston was a touch less sensitive than it needed to be!
Recovery came, and put the car on the back of the truck. When we got back home, reversed off the truck - and at that point, as I was about to reverse into my drive the display said : Check tyre pressures.
So maybe the Aston was a touch less sensitive than it needed to be!
TurboRob said:
Enjoyed reading the thread, thanks for posting.
My brother has an almost identical 650S. He's had his for 2 years, used regularly but mainly for longer roadtrips/not round the houses so much, and a couple of track days a year. Only issues so far is a slight weep from a cooling pipe clip (upgraded clips fitted under warranty) and the clutch filter housing started leaking after the last trackday (yet to be sorted).
He was at Silverstone last month and visited Thorney for a checkover - very down to earth chaps. I think he is taking the car there for any work from now on.
That pic really makes me want to take mine on track.........My brother has an almost identical 650S. He's had his for 2 years, used regularly but mainly for longer roadtrips/not round the houses so much, and a couple of track days a year. Only issues so far is a slight weep from a cooling pipe clip (upgraded clips fitted under warranty) and the clutch filter housing started leaking after the last trackday (yet to be sorted).
He was at Silverstone last month and visited Thorney for a checkover - very down to earth chaps. I think he is taking the car there for any work from now on.
LotusJas said:
What isn't precise is the fuel gauge though 
My low fuel warning came on last week - by a genius bit of design, once that happens the "miles remaining" disappears from the display and is replaced by a petrol pump icon! Not helpful.Had a great drive home last night - really enjoyed it. I am having to force myself to not use the car every day, because I find too many excuses to take it out at the weekends - and although I don't really care what the mileage is, the McLaren warranty does. Whatever its faults / niggles - it's a long time since I've had a car that I want to drive all the time, and make excuses to drive somewhere.
I'm very proud that this morning, I used my Cayenne!
justin220 said:
But I also try and remember that these are not mass built like a VW golf, I sometimes think people expect too much.
The problem is - and the reason that I find the faults on the 650 so frustrating - my point of reference isn't a mass produced VW. It's an 18 year old Ferrari 360. In the 6 years I've owned it, I'm pretty sure it's had less faults than my 650 has thrown in 6 weeks of ownership. I'm aware that it's far less technical compared to modern stuff - but equally, it's an old Ferrari and if anything was going to have electrical glitches, you'd think it would be the Italian electrics.
(It did have one major engine problem this year, which was a rather big negative - but overall it's been almost entirely problem free).
PompeyReece said:
Not sure that was the point being made.
The OP said "My low fuel warning came on last week - by a genius bit of design, once that happens the "miles remaining" disappears from the display and is replaced by a petrol pump icon! Not helpful"
So thought the comment related to the remaining miles reading disappearing from view, not how many miles were left or whether the remaining miles reading was inaccurate?
Yes. That was exactly my point.The OP said "My low fuel warning came on last week - by a genius bit of design, once that happens the "miles remaining" disappears from the display and is replaced by a petrol pump icon! Not helpful"
So thought the comment related to the remaining miles reading disappearing from view, not how many miles were left or whether the remaining miles reading was inaccurate?
12pack said:
Yes mine too - I guess I clicked "quote" as opposed to "quote all"
I said:
"This is different from the direct air pressure measurement. Would depend strongly on how you drove on the rest of the tank, and even on how fast you are cornering as the low remaining fuel sloshes around, so that the remaining miles would like fluctuate wildly.",
because that's likely why the designers switched to the icon rather than displaying wildly fluctuating remaining miles.
This is the kind of response I don't really get.I said:
"This is different from the direct air pressure measurement. Would depend strongly on how you drove on the rest of the tank, and even on how fast you are cornering as the low remaining fuel sloshes around, so that the remaining miles would like fluctuate wildly.",
because that's likely why the designers switched to the icon rather than displaying wildly fluctuating remaining miles.
Pretty much any other car manages to display remaining miles. My Aston managed it - and that went round corners and burned more fuel depending on how I drove it too.
(Plus if you've reached the point where you've got a low fuel warning, I'm guessing most people are not stamping on the accelerator at every opportunity).
LotusJas said:
I really fail to see why you think this is an issue anyway, when the car will display the actual tyre pressures? So you can see that there is in fact too little pressure?
On the 650, it's buried in the car menus - it's quicker to get out of the car and check the tyre it's complaining about.Still - I think the fact that it's dropping below the expected pressure suggests that I should add a few more psi.
Technically, it wasn't bad advice. I was told that in October, I'd start seeing tyre pressure warnings, because of the drop in temperature. Which is true, and I did.
I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
I was told that they'd had quite a few owners contact them thinking it was an issue, hence I was being warned about it.
Doesn't seem like bad or wrong advice really.
Car has been (mostly) fault free since I got it back from Ascot ~10 days ago. The roof seal still looks badly fitted to me - but the heavy rain on Saturday seems to have proved that they have stopped it leaking, so that's a big plus.
The headlights are still crap, and frankly not fit for purpose in their current state. I was driving down some dark country lanes at the weekend - the type that are only about 1.5 cars wide - and I could see absolutely f**k all. We were only doing 30-40mph, and my passenger asked me why I wasn't using high beam. My answer was that I was. This absolutely must be sorted at the service in December - I mailed Ascot yesterday to make them aware.
Incidentally - I've seen posts saying the sat nav is crap, but it worked well for me at the weekend. It even warned me of congestion, and offered an alternative route which is not something I was aware it could do.
The noise from the dashboard has been mostly fixed, but the much louder noise from the passenger door wasn't there when I dropped the car off! So that needs to be sorted out in the service too.
DAB is crap - whether it's worse in my car than it should be, I don't know but will get Ascot to take a look in December. Incidentally - the ~£800 for a minor / £1500 for a major seems to be an overly simplistic view of the service cost. I've been told that my (5 year) service isn't a major - but isn't a minor either, it's somewhere in between - and the book price is ~£1,450.
I don't really want to continue tyre-pressure gate, but it looks like the right rear was slightly lower than the other 3. I topped it up yesterday and had no warning this morning, although it may not have been cold enough.
Did a long run at the weekend, but still didn't see the kind if mpg that some people do - only managed ~23mpg and I can't imagine ever seeing anywhere close to 30. That was ~120 miles of mostly motorway at about the speed limit on cruise control.
Overall, I covered ~300 miles on Sunday and was very impressed with the car. I've mentioned before that one of the great things about it is that if you're really not in the mood, you can just stick it in auto mode and relax - which is exactly what I did on the drive home. Did get into a minor bit of trouble when the g/f noticed that the number plate had changed - and even more trouble when she discovered I did that a month ago and didn't tell her.
Had a lovely drive in to work this morning - roof down, and luckily got a clear run.
I've now done ~1,900 miles since buying the car on 24th August - so I really do need to try harder to keep the mileage down a bit and leave some spare for the summer. But this is where the situation with the car is actually a bit confusing. I want to drive it all the time - 2 months / 2k miles later, I still find excuses to go out in it. I love driving it, and I think it looks great. It does almost everything very very well, and is genuinely better at 90% of things than all the cars I've owned before.
But for some reason, I still don't know how long I'll keep the car. I still don't want to sell the Ferrari - even though I've only used it once in the last 2 months (I should probably check it's still in the garage!). I'm not sure why this is - the car is brilliant - if you ignore the niggles it's had - it should be a car that I want to keep until it (or I) disintegrate from old age. But I haven't reached that point yet.
It might be the cost. I sank a lot of my capital into the car, and I'm aware that it's value is dropping faster than a Boeing 737 - but I knew that before I bought it, so I don't really think it's that. Maybe it's that I'm worried about the running costs - most things are "free" other than the servicing - but that's because of the warranty, which isn't exactly cheap. But again, I knew that - and the warranty is paid until August 2021 so I'm not really expecting any nasty surprises for almost 2 years - and if I decide that's too much, I could swap to Thorney which is half the cost.
Maybe I just haven't had the car long enough to properly fall for it. I can't imagine selling it - I can't think of anything that could replace it - so in that respect, I guess I do appreciate it. But that magical spark that some cars have (including my recently neglected 360) is still missing for me. I hope it turns up soon.
The headlights are still crap, and frankly not fit for purpose in their current state. I was driving down some dark country lanes at the weekend - the type that are only about 1.5 cars wide - and I could see absolutely f**k all. We were only doing 30-40mph, and my passenger asked me why I wasn't using high beam. My answer was that I was. This absolutely must be sorted at the service in December - I mailed Ascot yesterday to make them aware.
Incidentally - I've seen posts saying the sat nav is crap, but it worked well for me at the weekend. It even warned me of congestion, and offered an alternative route which is not something I was aware it could do.
The noise from the dashboard has been mostly fixed, but the much louder noise from the passenger door wasn't there when I dropped the car off! So that needs to be sorted out in the service too.
DAB is crap - whether it's worse in my car than it should be, I don't know but will get Ascot to take a look in December. Incidentally - the ~£800 for a minor / £1500 for a major seems to be an overly simplistic view of the service cost. I've been told that my (5 year) service isn't a major - but isn't a minor either, it's somewhere in between - and the book price is ~£1,450.
I don't really want to continue tyre-pressure gate, but it looks like the right rear was slightly lower than the other 3. I topped it up yesterday and had no warning this morning, although it may not have been cold enough.
Did a long run at the weekend, but still didn't see the kind if mpg that some people do - only managed ~23mpg and I can't imagine ever seeing anywhere close to 30. That was ~120 miles of mostly motorway at about the speed limit on cruise control.
Overall, I covered ~300 miles on Sunday and was very impressed with the car. I've mentioned before that one of the great things about it is that if you're really not in the mood, you can just stick it in auto mode and relax - which is exactly what I did on the drive home. Did get into a minor bit of trouble when the g/f noticed that the number plate had changed - and even more trouble when she discovered I did that a month ago and didn't tell her.
Had a lovely drive in to work this morning - roof down, and luckily got a clear run.
I've now done ~1,900 miles since buying the car on 24th August - so I really do need to try harder to keep the mileage down a bit and leave some spare for the summer. But this is where the situation with the car is actually a bit confusing. I want to drive it all the time - 2 months / 2k miles later, I still find excuses to go out in it. I love driving it, and I think it looks great. It does almost everything very very well, and is genuinely better at 90% of things than all the cars I've owned before.
But for some reason, I still don't know how long I'll keep the car. I still don't want to sell the Ferrari - even though I've only used it once in the last 2 months (I should probably check it's still in the garage!). I'm not sure why this is - the car is brilliant - if you ignore the niggles it's had - it should be a car that I want to keep until it (or I) disintegrate from old age. But I haven't reached that point yet.
It might be the cost. I sank a lot of my capital into the car, and I'm aware that it's value is dropping faster than a Boeing 737 - but I knew that before I bought it, so I don't really think it's that. Maybe it's that I'm worried about the running costs - most things are "free" other than the servicing - but that's because of the warranty, which isn't exactly cheap. But again, I knew that - and the warranty is paid until August 2021 so I'm not really expecting any nasty surprises for almost 2 years - and if I decide that's too much, I could swap to Thorney which is half the cost.
Maybe I just haven't had the car long enough to properly fall for it. I can't imagine selling it - I can't think of anything that could replace it - so in that respect, I guess I do appreciate it. But that magical spark that some cars have (including my recently neglected 360) is still missing for me. I hope it turns up soon.
I don't think the new rattle from the passenger door was caused by the service team - it's an unfortunate coincidence. The car went in for some specific things to be fixed (it wasn't a general service), so they had no reason to be messing around with the passenger door.
I will get it sorted in December anyway. Given my ownership experience so far, it seems unlikely the list of things to fix won't be longer by then - but we'll see. It's quite nice that nothing has gone wrong with it in the last 10 days, even if that is partly due to reduced use.
I will get it sorted in December anyway. Given my ownership experience so far, it seems unlikely the list of things to fix won't be longer by then - but we'll see. It's quite nice that nothing has gone wrong with it in the last 10 days, even if that is partly due to reduced use.
Hurri360 said:
If you tried using the 360 every day and the 650 on special days ie reverse the roles, do you think your feelings about the cars would change also?
My view would probably change, but I don't think my view would swap cars (if that makes sense).The 360 just isn't a daily car. I know there are people who've used them for that - and (until recently) I do use mine for daily duties on sunny days (shopping, commuting etc.) - if I'm in the mood to use it. But I'm not always in the mood to use it, and if I had to change my cars such that the 360 became the semi-daily, then I think it would be sold for something else. I think it's a brilliant car, but I think I'd find it tiring driving it that often.
I'm not sure what I'd think if the 650 was an occasional car. I used my 996 turbo as a semi-daily car, and I was absolutely 100% sure that it could never ever be a weekend sunny day toy for me - it just wasn't special enough. I don't think that's true of the McLaren though - it definitely could be a weekend toy. It might be the case that I'd feel it was more special if that was the case - and I am gradually reducing how much I use it in the week at this time of year anyway - but I'm not convinced the regular use is blurring my feelings about it that much, It still feels special every time I use it - and it is just so damn good as a daily car!
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