New Lithium batteries with 3 times the storage

[RayTay]

mybrainhurts said:

I drive up to 80,000 miles a year, regularly with round trips of between 300 and 500 miles,

Do you ever sleep?

[RayTay]

Marylebone Rd in London is one of the most polluted roads in Europe. London keep getting fined by the EU. This is all unnecessary as EVs cars, buses, taxis, etc, can implemented very quickly. London boroughs are rolling out electric parking points. Parking meters can double up as chargers, as Denmark have done, using the same electricity cables. All simple to do.

[RayTay]

I doubt any of your type looked at the given links or have any idea of developments.

[RayTay]

TooMany2cvs, you really do not have much of a clue. Are you in the Flat Earth Society?

[RayTay]

MrJingles705 said:

Don't take my word on it - Goodenough himself responded to the same criticisms and queries as part of the slashdot article that was run.

there is also the plastic electrolyte I gave a link to. If you can't see that battery technology has advanced amazingly in 20 years and is still advancing and the grid can cope you need to run back to your safe space.

[RayTay]

eldar said:

Again, as MBH, hardly representative usage.For the average 8/9k a year driver the cost of fuel is only part of the equation. As they come to replace their cars EVs will become more common.I suspect about 5% increase in EVs per year for the next decade or so.

Once the batteries hold x 2 the energy as now, there will be a deluge of EVs sold And once they have a decent, small, rotary power range-extender, hybrids will vastly increase in sales. In 10 years I cannot see a `vehicle` sold that is not an EV or a hybrid.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 08:32

[RayTay]

Batteries are being used to store electricity on the national grid. These are massively cheaper than building pumped water storage power stations. which are also difficult as geography determines where they will be. The Germans are to use abandoned mines to use as the lower reservoir. Large batteries for stationary storage do not have mass or volume constraints. The Germans are building a 13 MWh grid battery bank made of used batteries from Daimler's electric drive Smart cars, expecting the second life of the batteries to last another 10 years.

https://www.ft.com/content/0f533cb6-bde6-11e6-8b45...

A floating wind/battery platform is to be built in the North Sea. A grid storage battery bank is being built at Barrow.
https://www.ft.com/content/b62b356e-2d10-11e6-bf8d...

The grid is gearing up for EVs for sure and the cast off batteries of EVs can be used in the grid to balance grid delivery.

The price of batteries dropped 50% in 6 years. All this comes from developments for cell phones, laptops and cars, which is still ongoing.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 09:47

[RayTay]

Mr2Mike said:

but pretty irrelevant to the problems that need to be solved for EV batteries.

The technical problems are pretty well solved - at least for x 2 storage. That was the point of this thread. Now it is a matter of getting the technology production ready. It will not be next year as the likes of Toyota test any new battery for a year or two before being accepted - and that is after the production is up and running.

1. The problems for EVs are of course the battery storage. (solved in cars on sale as 200 miles range is here, and improved further in the lab);
2. Speed of charge (solved in the labs);
3. The grid delivery.

The Luddites pull more excuses from their sleeves saying that the grid cannot cope even now we have 200 mile range EV cars, which they said was impossible only a few years back. That is bunkum of course as many posters, me included, have shown.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 09:49

[RayTay]

Mr2Mike said:

You might as well say "Once they get cold fusion working then our battery problems are over!". A shame that Dr. Goodenough doesn't appear to share your unbounded optimism that all the challenges will shortly be solved.

You never looked at x 2 plastic electrolyte video I posted, did you?

This is another breakthrough, using plastic as the electrolyte. But holds only twice the energy that we have today. There may be scope for improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9UxOJacQmg

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 09:57

[RayTay]

300bhp/ton said:

I don't know what 'revolution' technology this is. If at all. But as a general rule, increasing capacity comes with other downsides, usual cycle life and performance.

Quoting existing batteries is irrelevant as this is a leap. There are advances in x 2 and x 3 storage with no degradation after 100's of charges. They are lighter and smaller. Please do not come back and say you have seen all this before. What we have all seen is battery technology progress exponentially in 20 years. The progress is still ongoing and has not stopped.

[RayTay]

300bhp/ton said:

TooMany2cvs said:

The Moose said:

I wonder at what point the copper into the building becomes the limiting factor for battery charging speed.

It's pretty bloody close already. A Tesla supercharger is apparently capable of 145kW between a pair of outlets - they apparently run at 480v, so that's 300A - or 120kW per car - 250A. These are likely to be US figures.

The single phase transformer (installed three years ago!) that serves our house and eight others is fused at 200A, rated at 300A.

This is something I think will be a major limiting factor for EV car period. Can you image street after street with high voltage charging points lining the foot paths just waiting for an RTI and to be driven into. Not too mention the energy demands needed to sustain hundreds of thousands or even millions of charge points.

All the answers are in the posts on this thread - grid power management. The Tesla Powerwall can trickle charge and zap a car battery. Also the new Powerwalls will in turn be the newer higher storage batteries as well. Street charging points could have versions of Powerwalls in them to balance the grid and delivery.

[RayTay]

TooMany2cvs said:

The single phase transformer (installed three years ago!) that serves our house and eight others is fused at 200A, rated at 300A.

In theory, if all homes were all electric and all appliances were all on, the 300A fuse would blow. But they look at average consumption. Also appliances are getting more and more efficient with LED lights being introduced, etc, and year by year using less electricity. Even many modern ovens come with a 13A plug on them. Many modern homes now are fitted with 60A main fuses as they will nowhere near reach 60A. Even if space heating is electric the insulation value of modern homes reduces the need for high output heating systems.

The Tesla Powerwall battery will be suitable for charging a car fast, direct from the grid for trickle charging.

I advise you get one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OHstY_kKUY

BTW, these flow batteries are used for grid storage .

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 10:56

[RayTay]

Goodenough, an Englishman who invented Lith-ion batteries in the 1970s, is mentioned at around 6 mins. All appears to be a big breakthrough.

https://youtu.be/r7u4oeJm-0g?t=377

[RayTay]

20 million EVs can be charged by the existing grid, even at peak time. The UK generate 75Gwatts. It does not get to 60Gwatts at any time. There is also car to grid backup. I recall more people with just using some plugs converted a Prius as backup power in the USA. What power out as in winter with snow. they plugged in the car and keep the house going. With a large 300 mile battery pack it could keep the house running for 4 days or more. Or feed the grid as well.

https://youtu.be/IDEQG-7tpLY?t=237

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 12:06

[RayTay]

Frimley111R said:

I'd counter that people want everything instantly. They won't mind when charging overnight but at other times they will expect an instant charge.

I am sure they will be available, but at an extra charge. For everyday use they will use trickle, and zaps on a motorway for a zap charge.

Here is the Tesla Powerwall and solar panels. A great way to charge your car and supply your house for buttons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6jyy0Joq8&t=...

[RayTay]

Mr2Mike said:

So why do we import so much electricity from France if we aren't even using the full capacity of our own generation?

Economics and to supply peaks like half time at an England game.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 14:10

[RayTay]

Mr2Mike said:

And an absolute st load of money spent on installing millions of charging points.

There are all over Central London and more being installed all the time and I notice they are nearly always being used. I notice they do not take up lots of land like the ugly smelly petrol stations.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 14:36

[RayTay]

otolith said:

That's the way Norway has gone, it does have fast charge stations but also lots of parking space outlets.

50% of all new cars sold in Norway are EVs. Yes, you are right. If charging points were on all streets and the odd fast charge station here and there it is all sorted, giving far superior charging than petrol. You can even charge from home if you have a drive. I know no one who has their own petrol pump at home. The reason why petrol companies do not have on street fill-ups is because we would need petrol pipes and tanks all over to supply them. If they could have done it they would have.

EVs will be far more convenient to charge than petrol.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 14:35

[RayTay]

For those who lost it. A plastic electrolyte Lith battery with x 2 the energy storage and very safe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9UxOJacQmg&t=...

[RayTay]

eldar said:

Just around the corner, yet again. Time will tell.

If the technology is there the products will come fast if it is x2 storage, as the demand is more than there. Demand is screaming for them. Not just cars will use these: trains, planes, powerwalls, etc.

Yes if they can get a x2 car battery set at £2,000. Changing the battery set on say a plug-in Prius would transform the car. £2,000 as a replacement transmission on many cars. If you change a transmission you then are only back to stage one.

Edited by RayTay on Monday 3rd July 18:27