500 mile+ ranged EV Confirmed

[Witchfinder]

ChocolateFrog said:

For someone like me who can measure the amount I've spent on depreciation in hundreds rather than thousands pure EVs are a long way off.

Tight arse in "doesn't want to spend money" shocker. Current EVs (including the Lucid Air) aren't really for you. Maybe in 5-10 years.

[SWoll]

Witchfinder said:

TheRainMaker said:

I find the notion you think my complaints about charging laughable when if you asked 100 people, "would you prefer a phone you had to charge once a week or would you like the one you need to charge every night", what would the answer be?

What a nonsense argument. If that phone was two to three times as expensive, heavy, and large, do you think people would still opt for the once-a-week choice?

Fact is the vast majority of people do under 30 miles per day. Even with a car that has 250 miles of range, you'd only need to charge up once a week. Most people charge up every couple of days because it's just so easy and convenient. I got 10kWh of free electricity whilst I was doing my shopping at the weekend, enough to take most EVs a good 30-40 miles.

My favourite things is that fact that apparently you have to charge a 300 mile EV every night but a 600 mile one once a week? The logic behind that conclusion baffles me.

You charge every nights as it's so easy to do so, I'd do the same with a 600 mile EV as why not?

[TheRainMaker]

SWoll said:

My favourite things is that fact that apparently you have to charge a 300 mile EV every night but a 600 mile one once a week? The logic behind that conclusion baffles me.

If that is directed at me, I was replying to Witchfinder's first post was he references waking up to a full charge every morning, indicating he plugs in his car every night.

The logic behind that conclusion baffles you because you are reading what you want to read, not what is written.

If I have my wires crossed apologies.

[TheRainMaker]

Witchfinder said:

ChocolateFrog said:

For someone like me who can measure the amount I've spent on depreciation in hundreds rather than thousands pure EVs are a long way off.

Tight arse in "doesn't want to spend money" shocker. Current EVs (including the Lucid Air) aren't really for you. Maybe in 5-10 years.

Just rude and not needed.

[Mikebentley]

I don’t have an EV but am interested so read these threads. It’s typical PH with Elon’s fanboys banging on and the equally antagonistic daft sods arguing every point. It really is very draining. As a neutral even I can understand that these are battery driven vehicles and to get the range you are restricted by the available tech. Therefore twice the range twice the batteries?

This thing about charging every night? What’s the issue. If your ICE has 300 mile range and you do 100 miles per day you need to refill on day 3. What’s the difference ?

Idiots just spoiling for an internet fight.

[SWoll]

TheRainMaker said:

SWoll said:

My favourite things is that fact that apparently you have to charge a 300 mile EV every night but a 600 mile one once a week? The logic behind that conclusion baffles me.

If that is directed at me, I was replying to Witchfinder's first post was he references waking up to a full charge every morning, indicating he plugs in his car every night.

The logic behind that conclusion baffles you because you are reading what you want to read, not what is written.

If I have my wires crossed apologies.

Nope, you were quite right.

EV drivers charge overnight as you've then always got a full charge should you need it. I'd do the same with a 500 mile EV as why run it down to 100 miles to save a minute a day, that would be both lazy and stupid?

[TheRainMaker]

Witchfinder said:

TheRainMaker said:

I find the notion you think my complaints about charging laughable when if you asked 100 people, "would you prefer a phone you had to charge once a week or would you like the one you need to charge every night", what would the answer be?

What a nonsense argument. If that phone was two to three times as expensive, heavy, and large, do you think people would still opt for the once-a-week choice?

Fact is the vast majority of people do under 30 miles per day. Even with a car that has 250 miles of range, you'd only need to charge up once a week. Most people charge up every couple of days because it's just so easy and convenient. I got 10kWh of free electricity whilst I was doing my shopping at the weekend, enough to take most EVs a good 30-40 miles.

So if you only had to charge twice a month and would NEVER have to worry about range not be even more convenient?

The price has not be released yet, are you suggesting it's going to be £150000.00 when launched?

I'm really struggling with the resistance for tech to move forward.

[SWoll]

Mikebentley said:

I don’t have an EV but am interested so read these threads. It’s typical PH with Elon’s fanboys banging on and the equally antagonistic daft sods arguing every point. It really is very draining. As a neutral even I can understand that these are battery driven vehicles and to get the range you are restricted by the available tech. Therefore twice the range twice the batteries?

This thing about charging every night? What’s the issue. If your ICE has 300 mile range and you do 100 miles per day you need to refill on day 3. What’s the difference ?

Idiots just spoiling for an internet fight.

Because if you could fill your car with petrol at home every night with 30 seconds effort, why wouldn't you?
Charging takes longer than filling with fuel and is more awkward in an emergency should you need to so why let it get low when it;s so easy not to?
Charging at home is vastly cheaper than public charging so why risk needing to?
Most cheap electricity windows are for a few hours a night so take advantage of them regularly rather than doing a big charge once a week and paying more?

You couldn't work this out for yourself yet we're the idiots?


And Witchfinder an Elon fanboy?

[TheRainMaker]

SWoll said:

TheRainMaker said:

SWoll said:

My favourite things is that fact that apparently you have to charge a 300 mile EV every night but a 600 mile one once a week? The logic behind that conclusion baffles me.

If that is directed at me, I was replying to Witchfinder's first post was he references waking up to a full charge every morning, indicating he plugs in his car every night.

The logic behind that conclusion baffles you because you are reading what you want to read, not what is written.

If I have my wires crossed apologies.

Nope, you were quite right.

EV drivers charge overnight as you've then always got a full charge should you need it. I'd do the same with a 500 mile EV as why run it down to 100 miles to save a minute a day, that would be both lazy and stupid?

I think we are going around in circles here.

My cards on the table, I think a range of 500+ miles can only be a good thing.

[Witchfinder]

TheRainMaker said:

I'm really struggling with the resistance for tech to move forward.

That's your mistake. It's not a leap forward in tech, it's just brute force. Slap a 500kWh battery on it and it'll do 1,800 miles. Is that progress?

[Salmonofdoubt]

I'm going to guess that a 600 mile EV isn't going to be the affordable option for the foreseeable future but it's good that the tech is moving that way IMHO.

I've been watching EV prices and while I can see the benefits of running a newer car with a 2-300 mile range while I'm able to charge at work it still doesn't stack up for me personally as an only car. Which is where the cost crossover gets much higher (I did a spreadsheet). Using an EV as a commuter tool would be economically sensible for me v fuel/repair costs over a shed. But there's still the days where I want to drive into the countryside and not have a set route, or do 3-400 miles in a day without stopping at places that have great charging infrastructure, or the times where I'm not in work and the building my flat is in has no EV charging points (like now, or when I'm staying with a relative who has no charging facility etc etc).

Battery tech improving can't possibly be a negative but unless infrastructure catches up rapidly the 2030 target looks impossible.

[Flumpo]

Salmonofdoubt said:

I'm going to guess that a 600 mile EV isn't going to be the affordable option for the foreseeable future but it's good that the tech is moving that way IMHO.

I've been watching EV prices and while I can see the benefits of running a newer car with a 2-300 mile range while I'm able to charge at work it still doesn't stack up for me personally as an only car. Which is where the cost crossover gets much higher (I did a spreadsheet). Using an EV as a commuter tool would be economically sensible for me v fuel/repair costs over a shed. But there's still the days where I want to drive into the countryside and not have a set route, or do 3-400 miles in a day without stopping at places that have great charging infrastructure, or the times where I'm not in work and the building my flat is in has no EV charging points (like now, or when I'm staying with a relative who has no charging facility etc etc).

Battery tech improving can't possibly be a negative but unless infrastructure catches up rapidly the 2030 target looks impossible.

I’ve reported your post as it’s sensible and not argumentative. Hopefully admins will swiftly remove it.

[TheRainMaker]

Witchfinder said:

TheRainMaker said:

I'm really struggling with the resistance for tech to move forward.

That's your mistake. It's not a leap forward in tech, it's just brute force. Slap a 500kWh battery on it and it'll do 1,800 miles. Is that progress?

From the article


“I’m delighted that the Lucid Air has been independently verified by FEV to achieve an estimated EPA range of 517 miles, and that this landmark in the history of EV development has been achieved entirely through Lucid’s in-house technology. I believe that our 900-volt architecture, our race proven battery packs, miniaturized motors and power electronics, integrated transmission systems, aerodynamics, chassis and thermal systems, software, and overall system efficiency has now reached a stage where it collectively sets a new standard and delivers a host of ‘world’s firsts“


So are you suggesting ALL they did was fit a bigger battery.

Gosh, I can’t believe no one else thought of that.

[Mikebentley]

SWoll said:

Mikebentley said:

I don’t have an EV but am interested so read these threads. It’s typical PH with Elon’s fanboys banging on and the equally antagonistic daft sods arguing every point. It really is very draining. As a neutral even I can understand that these are battery driven vehicles and to get the range you are restricted by the available tech. Therefore twice the range twice the batteries?

This thing about charging every night? What’s the issue. If your ICE has 300 mile range and you do 100 miles per day you need to refill on day 3. What’s the difference ?

Idiots just spoiling for an internet fight.

Because if you could fill your car with petrol at home every night with 30 seconds effort, why wouldn't you?
Charging takes longer than filling with fuel and is more awkward in an emergency should you need to so why let it get low when it;s so easy not to?
Charging at home is vastly cheaper than public charging so why risk needing to?
Most cheap electricity windows are for a few hours a night so take advantage of them regularly rather than doing a big charge once a week and paying more?

You couldn't work this out for yourself yet we're the idiots?


And Witchfinder an Elon fanboy?

SWoll you need to read what I wrote. It was in support of EVs and the ease of charging. I had worked it out. You just did the defensive thing again.

[phil4]

It's a good thing, as inevitably others will see it as a benchmark to try and meet. For those then need/want it, it's a viable option.

If we lived in a world with ICE cars, where the fuel-tank size had a massive influence on the cost, we'd see similar thinking. I seem to recall and older version of the VW Toureg had an optional 120l tank... it didn't cost thousands extra however.

At the moment we have various EV's available with various ranges, from Citroen C-Zero to Tesla S LR. You choose something that suits your expected driving needs. Having something with even longer range probably isn't needed by most, and if they have to pay extra they likely won't. But it's good to have a choice.

[Witchfinder]

These threads always make me laugh. Everyone seems to have some story about how they live in Brighton, but they need to drive to see their nan in Inverness every weekend. An electric car couldn't possibly work because it would slightly inconvenience them. This change is inevitable. Independently of the ICE sales ban, cities like Manchester are looking at low and zero emissions zones.

The reason I'm critical of this car is that it doesn't solve the problem. The problem is the lack of the Ford Mondeo of the EV world. This is another overpriced saloon, and worse still they've gone for a headline-grabbing range by fitting an oversized battery. If they have managed 500 miles with a sub-100kWh battery, then I'll be the first to say how impressed I am.

The massive battery is a compromise - cost, weight, efficiency. It's like fitting a car with a 500l fuel tank. You would only need to visit a petrol station every 4 months! But it would be a terrible car.

Edited by Witchfinder on Tuesday 11th August 19:33

[Mikebentley]

Forgot to post Witchfinder I do find your posts balanced and informative, the Elon bit was not aimed at you. I am hoping I can go EV next March.

[wassap]

I wonder if the post Covid world will change our habits massively, chances a vast proportion of us will not be commuting as much. I do 20k a year travelling to clients, now that we are used to teams meetings, that’s gonna drop a fair amount. So essentially if the world does change, many more people could make today’s EV work for them, and we might not the vast charging infrastructure that we think we do?

I could make a model 3 LR work today. I don’t want to right now as I haven’t fallen in love with the tech

[Witchfinder]

Mikebentley said:

Forgot to post Witchfinder I do find your posts balanced and informative, the Elon bit was not aimed at you. I am hoping I can go EV next March.

I mustn't be trying hard enough . Apologies to Chocolate Frog earlier, I was more than a bit rude.

On the subject of EVs in the post-C19 world. I think there'll be some change in driving habits, but not the seismic change that has been predicted. I swapped my V90 lease for a more expensive E-Tron lease, reasoning I'd save £170 per month on fuel. I've barely done 1,000 miles in the past six months.

I expect to be back in the office soon a couple of days per week, and reaping at least some of the benefits. All the signs seem to suggest that most people will go back to their normal places of work fairly soon.

[anonymous-user]

One does wonder just how many times the same argument can be had.......