EVs - have they got it all wrong?
Discussion
Technological improvments would be stifled by the standardisation. The drive is for smaller and lighter, but you immediately listed a standard pack size as a requirement. It would freeze many development possibilities at the point of roll-out. Not an option unless society is content with the market's current technological capabilities.
There are many other points I'm afraid I could suggest as show-stoppers, but that above is the biggest one that sprung first to my mind.
There are many other points I'm afraid I could suggest as show-stoppers, but that above is the biggest one that sprung first to my mind.
Freakuk said:
Tesla demonstrated this 8 years ago, took just over 90 seconds to replace the battery on a Model S
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY
Makes you wonder why they never followed it up, not quite as good as it's made out to be would be my guess.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY
Dont underestimate the challenge and of making a high voltage high current quick release connector that can handle uk crater potholes and be rapidly and automatically connected while a chassis is dripping in saltwater and road debris while never going high resistance enough to burn up even after thousansds of insertions.
f
k renault still struggle to make 12v low current connectors that are seldom disturbed that can last more than a few scottish winters.
f
k renault still struggle to make 12v low current connectors that are seldom disturbed that can last more than a few scottish winters. Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Tuesday 23 November 11:11
TheRainMaker said:
Makes you wonder why they never followed it up, not quite as good as it's made out to be would be my guess.
Lack of consumer demand, was the reason they cited. The problem is you either need a standardised battery pack (which would be difficult with such diverse car shapes and so many different manufacturers with very different types of battery) or a machine which can handle lots of different shapes and sizes of battery, types of connector, etc. which would be extremely expensive and probably not very reliable. Add to that the facts that making the battery autonomously interchangeable would appreciably increase the cost of the vehicle and the significant majority of car buyers would have no practical use for such a system, and I can see why it's not commercially viable.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 23 November 11:56
I work in the electric motor business and I can tell you that cars are so not the future, they are a fix to make people feel better and to keep people buying cars, but big picture if you want to save the planet buying an EV in Britain achieves nothing of significance, but making you fell better about yourself, which is fine, it keeps incredibly rich people in work but who is actually building stuff that might make a difference globally in the next 10 years, not Tesla or any other car manufacturer, it will help sure but there are countless other problems far beyond electric propulsion that are bigger factors in planet saving. And most of them we cant do anything about, or wont.
If I was in a job where I could afford a new car every few years I would get one, if I didn't travel anywhere a lot and commuted I would buy one, but at the moment if I wanted to follow an event for a few days, in an EV it would not be as easy to to that, it could be done, yes but right now it is not e=as easy, and that also does not factor in the extra cost of buying one, which I, like most working class people, can not afford.
It will obviously filter down, but charging is the hardest thing to solve in lower cost housing, not selling cars, that's easy. I can foresee that you buy your own charger, install it yourself, fine if you own your own, but what if you rent? Some people do rent you know, I know you might not find it hard to believe!! And in that situation you have landlords and property owners, two extra parties involved, and they will argue about who pays for these things.
If I was in a job where I could afford a new car every few years I would get one, if I didn't travel anywhere a lot and commuted I would buy one, but at the moment if I wanted to follow an event for a few days, in an EV it would not be as easy to to that, it could be done, yes but right now it is not e=as easy, and that also does not factor in the extra cost of buying one, which I, like most working class people, can not afford.
It will obviously filter down, but charging is the hardest thing to solve in lower cost housing, not selling cars, that's easy. I can foresee that you buy your own charger, install it yourself, fine if you own your own, but what if you rent? Some people do rent you know, I know you might not find it hard to believe!! And in that situation you have landlords and property owners, two extra parties involved, and they will argue about who pays for these things.
Something that is happening in China already, albeit one specific brand.
https://youtu.be/hTsrDpsYHrw
https://youtu.be/hTsrDpsYHrw
Battery swapping is available in China, but it's not very popular. It's been tried elsewhere and there are too many problems.
It's pointless anyway, batteries are big enough that you can drive for a very long time and then you need a bathroom break anyway. All these guys who drive 500 miles without a stop must be pissing in bottles or something.
It's pointless anyway, batteries are big enough that you can drive for a very long time and then you need a bathroom break anyway. All these guys who drive 500 miles without a stop must be pissing in bottles or something.
LukeBrown66 said:
I work in the electric motor business and I can tell you that cars are so not the future, they are a fix to make people feel better and to keep people buying cars, but big picture if you want to save the planet buying an EV in Britain achieves nothing of significance, but making you fell better about yourself, which is fine, it keeps incredibly rich people in work but who is actually building stuff that might make a difference globally in the next 10 years, not Tesla or any other car manufacturer, it will help sure but there are countless other problems far beyond electric propulsion that are bigger factors in planet saving. And most of them we cant do anything about, or wont.
If I was in a job where I could afford a new car every few years I would get one, if I didn't travel anywhere a lot and commuted I would buy one, but at the moment if I wanted to follow an event for a few days, in an EV it would not be as easy to to that, it could be done, yes but right now it is not e=as easy, and that also does not factor in the extra cost of buying one, which I, like most working class people, can not afford.
It will obviously filter down, but charging is the hardest thing to solve in lower cost housing, not selling cars, that's easy. I can foresee that you buy your own charger, install it yourself, fine if you own your own, but what if you rent? Some people do rent you know, I know you might not find it hard to believe!! And in that situation you have landlords and property owners, two extra parties involved, and they will argue about who pays for these things.
Your first rant scored 2/10, this one is 1/10, it's just word salad.If I was in a job where I could afford a new car every few years I would get one, if I didn't travel anywhere a lot and commuted I would buy one, but at the moment if I wanted to follow an event for a few days, in an EV it would not be as easy to to that, it could be done, yes but right now it is not e=as easy, and that also does not factor in the extra cost of buying one, which I, like most working class people, can not afford.
It will obviously filter down, but charging is the hardest thing to solve in lower cost housing, not selling cars, that's easy. I can foresee that you buy your own charger, install it yourself, fine if you own your own, but what if you rent? Some people do rent you know, I know you might not find it hard to believe!! And in that situation you have landlords and property owners, two extra parties involved, and they will argue about who pays for these things.
'cars are so not the future, they are a fix to make people keep buying cars'...
Carbon footprint is only part of the picture anyway, ICEs produce a host of pollutants that can affect human health if local levels get too high.
And it's usually the least exciting cars that are producing the most pollutants, why on earth you would try to preserve these s
tboxes on our roads I have no idea.EVs offer a great opportunity to reduce local pollution, the switchover is going to take many decades, but we have to start somewhere. That somewhere is going to be new (i.e. expensive) cars, obviously. Which makes the early adopters more likely to be wealthier people, obviously. Why you'd get worked up over this, again, I have no idea.
As for China, if they don't care at all, as you've put it, can you explain why there is a huge EV push going on there?
There is more to the Far East than China. There is an EV push there because manufacturers want to sell relevant cars there, a lot of them make cars that are different to ours to SUIT China alone, so of course they will make them the Chinese elite are not stupid, are they!. My point was that there are nearly two thousand coal mines in China, many operated by steam trains, so what is the point in them buying electric cars when they don't really give a toss about stuff like that and opted out of certain things because of this at COP? SO by all means sell them Tesla's because the guys buying it probably owns 5 coal mines that do thousands of percent more damage.
And in those countries; India, INdonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, the vast majority of people do not own cars, instead of spouting off at me do a bit of research yourself.
A lot of people there run bikes, two strokes etc, convincing people there to switch (and the numbers run into several billion obviously) is going to be tough, and the way you do it is by making very cheap motors that can maybe compete price wise with what they are already buying, not so easy.
It's relatively easy to make a motor for a car, the car costs a lot, so the motor cost can be factored in, EV's are now very expensive compared to their equivalent, is that profiteering? Maybe.
But trying to sell a bike for 5 grand when the ICE version is only 2 is pointless, we have to go to that level. Or billions of people in cities will continue to pollute a lot.
And to make a real difference to the planet, selling a few millions EV's does nothing compared to selling hundreds of millions of cheap, small EV powered bikes.
And in those countries; India, INdonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, the vast majority of people do not own cars, instead of spouting off at me do a bit of research yourself.
A lot of people there run bikes, two strokes etc, convincing people there to switch (and the numbers run into several billion obviously) is going to be tough, and the way you do it is by making very cheap motors that can maybe compete price wise with what they are already buying, not so easy.
It's relatively easy to make a motor for a car, the car costs a lot, so the motor cost can be factored in, EV's are now very expensive compared to their equivalent, is that profiteering? Maybe.
But trying to sell a bike for 5 grand when the ICE version is only 2 is pointless, we have to go to that level. Or billions of people in cities will continue to pollute a lot.
And to make a real difference to the planet, selling a few millions EV's does nothing compared to selling hundreds of millions of cheap, small EV powered bikes.
I'm a landlord. I'm more than happy to put an EV charging point in once our current tenants move out (or if they request one). It's currently really just a point of differentiation for the house in a crowded market, but both tenants and buyers will increasingly want one.
Not providing one will eventually narrow the market in the same way as having really crappy broadband speeds, so it's frankly a no-brainer.
Not providing one will eventually narrow the market in the same way as having really crappy broadband speeds, so it's frankly a no-brainer.
LukeBrown66 said:
There is more to the Far East than China. There is an EV push there because manufacturers want to sell relevant cars there, a lot of them make cars that are different to ours to SUIT China alone, so of course they will make them the Chinese elite are not stupid, are they!. My point was that there are nearly two thousand coal mines in China, many operated by steam trains, so what is the point in them buying electric cars when they don't really give a toss about stuff like that and opted out of certain things because of this at COP? SO by all means sell them Tesla's because the guys buying it probably owns 5 coal mines that do thousands of percent more damage.
And in those countries; India, INdonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, the vast majority of people do not own cars, instead of spouting off at me do a bit of research yourself.
A lot of people there run bikes, two strokes etc, convincing people there to switch (and the numbers run into several billion obviously) is going to be tough, and the way you do it is by making very cheap motors that can maybe compete price wise with what they are already buying, not so easy.
It's relatively easy to make a motor for a car, the car costs a lot, so the motor cost can be factored in, EV's are now very expensive compared to their equivalent, is that profiteering? Maybe.
But trying to sell a bike for 5 grand when the ICE version is only 2 is pointless, we have to go to that level. Or billions of people in cities will continue to pollute a lot.
And to make a real difference to the planet, selling a few millions EV's does nothing compared to selling hundreds of millions of cheap, small EV powered bikes.
In 2050, the predicted number of EVs in the world could be over half a billion, not just a few million.And in those countries; India, INdonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, the vast majority of people do not own cars, instead of spouting off at me do a bit of research yourself.
A lot of people there run bikes, two strokes etc, convincing people there to switch (and the numbers run into several billion obviously) is going to be tough, and the way you do it is by making very cheap motors that can maybe compete price wise with what they are already buying, not so easy.
It's relatively easy to make a motor for a car, the car costs a lot, so the motor cost can be factored in, EV's are now very expensive compared to their equivalent, is that profiteering? Maybe.
But trying to sell a bike for 5 grand when the ICE version is only 2 is pointless, we have to go to that level. Or billions of people in cities will continue to pollute a lot.
And to make a real difference to the planet, selling a few millions EV's does nothing compared to selling hundreds of millions of cheap, small EV powered bikes.
Local pollution in the UK is a specific problem in specific locations, significantly exacerbated by the overuse of diesel engines for private cars.
Speed limits are being reduced right now to address this, so if you don't want to drive everywhere at a snail's pace, large scale EV adoption in the UK is your only saviour.
Your posting on this topic has a recurring theme of having a go at wealthy people for any reason you can think of, it's not a good look.
Swapping EV batteries - It's a no from me......and everyone else too.
It's been considered already, like 10+ years ago !
MitchT said:
Am I the only person to whom all of this is startlingly obvious or am I stark staring bonkers and missing something obvious?
The motor industry employees some of the brightest, intelligent people on the planet - what do you think ?!!?It's been considered already, like 10+ years ago !
JonnyVTEC said:
To answer question. No.
Betteridge agrees.I'm not sure why anyone thinks people would pay as much for a battery that has some unknown fraction of its original capacity when they can buy one that at least starts at 100%. And when you also have to make the money despite shelling out for the infrastructure to do the battery swaps.
Battery tech has improved enough it's not a big issue for many and it'll keep improving.
I have no desire to care in the slightest about or "look", what on earth makes anyone think I give a damn about such things lol!, I am fully aware of what I am saying and couldn't care less what anyone thinks, it's a forum for discussion and if you are reading this you either own one and are therefore at the moment likely to be fairly well off (or made significant and I mean significant lifestyle changes to fit one into your life) or have one for tax reasons employment wise, or are interested in the topic, meaning anything negative said about them you will either disagree with or have a point yourself it's called discussion back and forth.
I work within the industry, and have a bit of knowledge about it, so am adding some points I think are worthy of note based on what I know and where certain futures lie in my world.
We have seen varying replies, some in agreement, on other threads, but usernames prevent people from being positive, it is a thing and I am more than able to deal with it!!
Ev's are not the be all and end all, they are a temporary solution, there may well be billions of them by 2050, but that is a longer time frame then when we were all told to buy diesels, a lot can change.
For now yes they are great, but not everyone can afford them and they are not great for certain sections of the community and not at all worthwhile in vast areas of the world. If you have one, good for you, they help a tiny bit, but we all surely know the real solutions are far more drastic.
I work within the industry, and have a bit of knowledge about it, so am adding some points I think are worthy of note based on what I know and where certain futures lie in my world.
We have seen varying replies, some in agreement, on other threads, but usernames prevent people from being positive, it is a thing and I am more than able to deal with it!!
Ev's are not the be all and end all, they are a temporary solution, there may well be billions of them by 2050, but that is a longer time frame then when we were all told to buy diesels, a lot can change.
For now yes they are great, but not everyone can afford them and they are not great for certain sections of the community and not at all worthwhile in vast areas of the world. If you have one, good for you, they help a tiny bit, but we all surely know the real solutions are far more drastic.
LukeBrown66 said:
Ev's are not the be all and end all, they are a temporary solution, there may well be billions of them by 2050, but that is a longer time frame then when we were all told to buy diesels, a lot can change.
Go on then, in your opinion, as someone who works with electric motors, what is the solution? I only ask because I'm buggered if I can work out a more efficient means of providing motive force than an electric motor. Even hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are EVs, so I'm guessing that's not your solution either. Unless you're suggesting people have less children and consume less. Or just don't travel anywhere. I'm really not sure what you're swinging at to be honest.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff