EV with real 300+ mile range?
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
blueg33 said:
Thats the conclusion I keep reaching, but I do fancy an EV, its the PITA that I dont fancy.
I'm in the same boat, would love an EV (after driving a Taycan the other week). I can granny charge in my garage and don't do that many miles, but I really don't fancy the hassle when going on holiday.I know EV'ers always say I can charge while I eat at services, empty the bladder etc etc - but there's no way I want to sit eating in a service station while on holiday thanks (or any other time for that matter), or dossing around waiting for a charger to become free.
PinkHouse said:
Cobnapint said:
blueg33 said:
Thats the conclusion I keep reaching, but I do fancy an EV, its the PITA that I dont fancy.
I'm in the same boat, would love an EV (after driving a Taycan the other week). I can granny charge in my garage and don't do that many miles, but I really don't fancy the hassle when going on holiday.I know EV'ers always say I can charge while I eat at services, empty the bladder etc etc - but there's no way I want to sit eating in a service station while on holiday thanks (or any other time for that matter), or dossing around waiting for a charger to become free.
And in the same way, I am happy to 'pay' for having an EV by sacrificing some time charging on longer journeys, because doing so buys me out of having to endlessly spend time filling up at petrol stations the rest of the year. A petrol station being the worst of all worlds because it's expensive, boring and depressing.
But on longer leisure/holiday journeys when I need to charge for long enough to eat properly, I don't use service stations - I think that's a slightly skewed vision of EV travel, the idea the drivers are all hanging around motorway services passing the time eating McDonald's...
If I'm going far enough to need more than a 10-20 minute charge at the services in a rapid+ charger, I'll generally instead just factor in a leisure stop somewhere interesting or useful. On the way to Norfolk for a Christmas retreat last year we stopped at a supermarket with a load of 100kw chargers, we knew we'd need to stock up with food for the week so it made sense to do both at one time. On a trip down to the west country we stopped a Bicester shopping village to buy clothes and eat whilst charging, it was probably only a 50kw chargers but fast enough given we wanted to stop there anyway.
I can honestly say I don't spend anymore time at motorway services now, than I did when my main car was a 430d..
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
this 100%TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
1. I just you a card, if I ever need it. Most charges accept cards now.
2. If I do a longer journey, I use 'a better route planner', it's a sat nav, just like most sat navs, just with chargers shown, if I need a stop.
In the two years of ownership, my experience of EVs is less stressful, due to less cost, servicing, no visits to petrol stations, easier to drive, quieter, more comfortable, oh and did I mention cost. I save about £1300 per year compares to diesel. Even if the car depreciates quicker, it would have to be a lot quicker.
On the depreciation point, the more expensive EV's are very clearly priced in the UK to hoover up their share of the tax breaks motivation to buy/lease them. Even then, the actual price people pay to buy/lease tends to be significantly less than the headline RRP.
My iPace 'technically' lost about £50k of value in it's first three years, that'll make headlines and confuse/reinforce the views of PinkHouse! But the reality is somewhat less dramatic, it actually cost me just £25k in those three years to lease it. Losing that sort of money on lux Jag SUV in it's first three years of life is not bad at all. It's a similar story with the Taycan; over-priced, designed to be leased initially. On the open used market, the BS rrp counts for nothing and it's priced based on what people are prepared to pay, which is closer to normal for a used Porsche.
Most run of the mill EV's appear to depreciate at no greater rate than their ICE counterparts - even the reports that suggest they do/may do, don't claim depreciation anything like enough to wipe out their running cost savings, which represent 2-3k a year, easily.
My iPace 'technically' lost about £50k of value in it's first three years, that'll make headlines and confuse/reinforce the views of PinkHouse! But the reality is somewhat less dramatic, it actually cost me just £25k in those three years to lease it. Losing that sort of money on lux Jag SUV in it's first three years of life is not bad at all. It's a similar story with the Taycan; over-priced, designed to be leased initially. On the open used market, the BS rrp counts for nothing and it's priced based on what people are prepared to pay, which is closer to normal for a used Porsche.
Most run of the mill EV's appear to depreciate at no greater rate than their ICE counterparts - even the reports that suggest they do/may do, don't claim depreciation anything like enough to wipe out their running cost savings, which represent 2-3k a year, easily.
PinkHouse said:
Most people are happy to pay for time, convenience and less stress. EV owners today and most on this thread have done their own analysis to determine that they would happily compromise on those to drive and EV today or that those factors are reversed (E.g. it's more convenient for them). Many others aren't quite ready to make those sacrifices just yet and not much will change until those areas improve for the vast majority
I have an EV (Tesla) and I find it saves time, is more convienient and less stressful, I am not sacraficing anything.- Everyday I can wake up with 300+miles range
- No longer do I have to visit fuel stations and find gloves for a dirty diesel pump (used to be weekly)
- Only on journeys longer than 4-5hrs do I have to breifly charge, frankly my need for coffee and old bladder needs to stop more often
For me EV's are better than ICE (except for "fun") but they are not for everyone.
It all sounds like it suits your lifestyle and usage profile just right and even has many of the benefits stated above. No one is doubting all of your individual circumstances which make it possible, along with your enthusiasm to make EVs work for you.
However you can't take your lifestyle and extrapolate it to the rest of the population, most of whom don't have off street parking and charging available to them, need the ability to drive 300+ miles without recharging, use their vehicles for trade/utility work, need to tow trailers/caravans/boats, and most importantly many people simply don't believe it's worth changing at the moment given the alternative. Until the pendulum swings dramatically and it becomes more convenient to run an EV, things will keep trending as they are
However you can't take your lifestyle and extrapolate it to the rest of the population, most of whom don't have off street parking and charging available to them, need the ability to drive 300+ miles without recharging, use their vehicles for trade/utility work, need to tow trailers/caravans/boats, and most importantly many people simply don't believe it's worth changing at the moment given the alternative. Until the pendulum swings dramatically and it becomes more convenient to run an EV, things will keep trending as they are
TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
It's also definitely still the case that you can't take spontaneous anger journeys without optimising your route around available charging options rather than other factors like a more scenic routes or stopping for breaks where it's most convenient
PinkHouse said:
TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
It's also definitely still the case that you can't take spontaneous anger journeys without optimising your route around available charging options rather than other factors like a more scenic routes or stopping for breaks where it's most convenient
I make spontaneous trips all the time, most of which are well within 250 miles range so no issue. I have a proper EV, obviously you can't get the best out of an i8 if you do that as you lose a lot of the power if you don't have charge, and the battery capacity is tiny so it's far more of a limiting factor. I also make far longer spontaneous trips and I absolutely don't research and plan where to stop based on where chargers are, I simply look for one en-route when I'm getting a little low and typically stop for about 10 minutes, it's a none factor imo.
I've never even heard of source London, I hardly charge publicly enough to care about the best price or loyalty to one particular scheme or network tbh. I'm sure I would if I had a hybrid such as the i8 and often exceeded it's electric range - which is why I don't have such a car.
I use any charger that happens to be vaguely along my route as and when I need too. It's exactly the same as petrol stations in that regard. I also didn't used to check an app to find the best fuel prices...
TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
TheDeuce said:
PinkHouse said:
theboss said:
It pretty much comes down to whether I think stopping for 20 mins is worth saving £100 in fuel
Or not wanting to do any of the following parts of the user experience:Set up multiple payments and subscriptions
Use an app to plan journeys around chargers
Spontaneously take longer trips without worrying about charging options
A lot of people value and pay a premium for simplicity and while it might save you money on fuel if you're able to charge at home, you'll be wiped out on depreciation compared to ICE equivalents so
You don't need apps to pay other than at the older, slower chargers. Nor do you need subscriptions etc.
You don't need an app to plan journeys, other than whatever you use to navigate anyway. Any map app or EV nav knows where the chargers are.
We set off on journeys without sufficient range all the time, we don't pre-plan or hunt for chargers ahead of doing so - it's impossible to drive anywhere now where there aren't rapid chargers en route, so we don't worry any more than we previously would have done with a low fuel tank.
It's also definitely still the case that you can't take spontaneous anger journeys without optimising your route around available charging options rather than other factors like a more scenic routes or stopping for breaks where it's most convenient
I make spontaneous trips all the time, most of which are well within 250 miles range so no issue. I have a proper EV, obviously you can't get the best out of an i8 if you do that as you lose a lot of the power if you don't have charge, and the battery capacity is tiny so it's far more of a limiting factor. I also make far longer spontaneous trips and I absolutely don't research and plan where to stop based on where chargers are, I simply look for one en-route when I'm getting a little low and typically stop for about 10 minutes, it's a none factor imo.
I've never even heard of source London, I hardly charge publicly enough to care about the best price or loyalty to one particular scheme or network tbh. I'm sure I would if I had a hybrid such as the i8 and often exceeded it's electric range - which is why I don't have such a car.
I use any charger that happens to be vaguely along my route as and when I need too. It's exactly the same as petrol stations in that regard. I also didn't used to check an app to find the best fuel prices...
PinkHouse said:
It's not just Source London, practically every major charging network has subscription tiers, it was the case 4 years ago and still true today. The only seamless network is the Tesla supercharger network but even then you've got to pay for a subscription to access the network for non-Tesla users. To put petrol in my car I simply turn up and can even pay in physical cash!
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
It's not just Source London, practically every major charging network has subscription tiers, it was the case 4 years ago and still true today. The only seamless network is the Tesla supercharger network but even then you've got to pay for a subscription to access the network for non-Tesla users. To put petrol in my car I simply turn up and can even pay in physical cash!
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.Electroverse is tap the card, as is just about every 50kW and above. Just like using a Pay-at-the-Pump.
Road2Ruin said:
740EVTORQUES said:
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.
You can even do it at home. I wonder how pinkhouse manages to put petrol in his car at home 
with actual cash!Maracus said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
It's not just Source London, practically every major charging network has subscription tiers, it was the case 4 years ago and still true today. The only seamless network is the Tesla supercharger network but even then you've got to pay for a subscription to access the network for non-Tesla users. To put petrol in my car I simply turn up and can even pay in physical cash!
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.Electroverse is tap the card, as is just about every 50kW and above. Just like using a Pay-at-the-Pump.
If I happen across a charger not on the scheme, I just pay by tapping my phone.
I don't know why this guy is obsessed about apps and subs when everyone with an EV is telling him they don't bother with any of it
TheDeuce said:
Maracus said:
740EVTORQUES said:
PinkHouse said:
It's not just Source London, practically every major charging network has subscription tiers, it was the case 4 years ago and still true today. The only seamless network is the Tesla supercharger network but even then you've got to pay for a subscription to access the network for non-Tesla users. To put petrol in my car I simply turn up and can even pay in physical cash!
That’s literally what I do with DC charging, turn up, tap a card and charge. No apps. No subscriptions,.Electroverse is tap the card, as is just about every 50kW and above. Just like using a Pay-at-the-Pump.
If I happen across a charger not on the scheme, I just pay by tapping my phone.
I don't know why this guy is obsessed about apps and subs when everyone with an EV is telling him they don't bother with any of it
Which, to be fair, it was like that.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff