Public Charging Points Not Keeping Up With EVs

[Vasco]

Road2Ruin said:

I see so many EV reviews where people conclude, 'I wouldn't have one'....because of the charging network. Most people though travel very few miles and can charge at home in just a few hours. My wife does 60 miles per day at roughly 3.5 miles per kilowatt, that would be 17 kilowatts. At home that takes less than 3 hours and is easily done over night on cheap rate. I suppose if you did want to do 250+ miles then you might need to plan. Although every time I stop at some services there are always several charging points empty. I am sure there are busy times though, but like every journey, just plan in advance.

Yes, fine for short-medium trips from home (if you can charge there). Not so good when I'm going to be away for 3 days and don't really have the time to leave a car charging - and certainly not if it can only be done some distance from where I'm staying.

[DMZ]

I don't think there's going to be a one size fits all. EVs are getting pretty good at that short-medium hop or other quite predictable journeys or journeys where's there's enough parking baked in for charging not be an issue so those who are good with the relative dullness of EVs and fit those circumstances can go EV. For others there's PHEV and for other others there's ICE. I guess governments think differently with their ICE ban but let's see. I suspect reality will take over. I've been in countries with very good charger networks and large EV take-up and tbh I didn't think driving an EV was any easier. People complain about all the same stuff there and then have the problems of peak periods where you will need to wait and there is no good system for waiting either. All the same limitations on range and charge speed apply and the fundamental economics of chargers mean that they are along main routes primarily, at least the fast ones. And there is no real cost benefit if you need to hook up to fast chargers as they're invariably very expensive by EV standards. But we shall see.

[Road2Ruin]

Vasco said:

Road2Ruin said:

I see so many EV reviews where people conclude, 'I wouldn't have one'....because of the charging network. Most people though travel very few miles and can charge at home in just a few hours. My wife does 60 miles per day at roughly 3.5 miles per kilowatt, that would be 17 kilowatts. At home that takes less than 3 hours and is easily done over night on cheap rate. I suppose if you did want to do 250+ miles then you might need to plan. Although every time I stop at some services there are always several charging points empty. I am sure there are busy times though, but like every journey, just plan in advance.

Yes, fine for short-medium trips from home (if you can charge there). Not so good when I'm going to be away for 3 days and don't really have the time to leave a car charging - and certainly not if it can only be done some distance from where I'm staying.

Dont buy an EV then! You are the exception, not the rule.

[Funk]

SWoll said:

Funk said:

I would never get an EV without the ability to charge it at home overnight. The public charging network just isn't ready yet.

Depends on you mileage and if there are chargers available where you park the car often for an extended period. if you could charge at work, whilst doing your weekly shop, having a meal etc. then could be perfectly viable?

Can't charge at work and the other scenarios aren't viable either unfortunately. As it's only me I tend to shop ad-hoc - literally 20 mins - and I don't really go anywhere for an extended period where I could charge. If I were reliant on public chargers, I'd be sat in the car waiting with it and to be honest I have better things to do with my time...

As a result I'm swinging the other way toward a 'last hurrah' for ICE before they price them out of existence. Cars on the shortlist are M6 GC, E63 (the 6.2) or similar - possibly even a 997 of some sort. I'm 43 so there will several decades for me to live with EVs; I'm gonna enjoy one or more of the great petrol engines around at the moment while I still can.

[Mars]

aestetix1 said:

georgeyboy12345 said:

We may end up adopting Japan’s model of “if you don’t have somewhere to park your car, you are not allowed to have one”.

That only works if you have a good public transport system though, and the UK one is absolutely dire.

All parking on roads should be chargeable. I know residents permits are the thing in some places and I fully support this but they shouldn't be free.

[Downward]

Vasco said:

CheesecakeRunner said:

Vasco said:

Merry said:

Vasco said:

How can flat tenants hope to keep their electric car charged up?

By fitting a metered supply in the car park?

What car parks exist is usually very small in comparison to the number of flats.
Who pays for the installation - councils and/or the private landlords?

We’ve put men on the moon, created a global communications network, created countless medical treatments to cure all sorts of illnesses, and many many other things.

It’s not beyond the wit of man to put a fking cable into a car park and figure out a way of paying for it.

Agreed.

If I lived in a flat and wanted an electric car I think I'd like to know how it's supposed to be achieved.

Yeah same as me wanting a bigger car or camper van but I can’t as I don’t have the drive space,

[Downward]

Road2Ruin said:

Vasco said:

Road2Ruin said:

I see so many EV reviews where people conclude, 'I wouldn't have one'....because of the charging network. Most people though travel very few miles and can charge at home in just a few hours. My wife does 60 miles per day at roughly 3.5 miles per kilowatt, that would be 17 kilowatts. At home that takes less than 3 hours and is easily done over night on cheap rate. I suppose if you did want to do 250+ miles then you might need to plan. Although every time I stop at some services there are always several charging points empty. I am sure there are busy times though, but like every journey, just plan in advance.

Yes, fine for short-medium trips from home (if you can charge there). Not so good when I'm going to be away for 3 days and don't really have the time to leave a car charging - and certainly not if it can only be done some distance from where I'm staying.

Dont buy an EV then! You are the exception, not the rule.

Man could charge overnight when he’s asleep unless it’s a 3 day 24 hour using the car trip.

[Vasco]

Downward said:

Man could charge overnight when he’s asleep unless it’s a 3 day 24 hour using the car trip.

That's fine if the charger is anywhere near where you're staying.

[C.A.R.]

I think there's still a lot of confusion out there too, and the manufacturer's are also partly responsible.

Before I got my electric company car I was none-the-wiser, I didn't know what chargers would / would not be suitable. At work we have 22kW chargers on 3 phase. But a Tesla Model 3, like many current electric cars; can only charge at a max rate of 11kW using a Type 2 AC 'plug'. This is really not obvious anywhere on the car and even when you plug it in, nothing prompts you.

Same thing for the local 'regular' I've spotted charging their Nissan Leaf. The local Tesco has 2x 22kW, 2x 11kW, 2x 7kW and 2x 50kW chargers. Only the latter have a charge, the rest are free. So of course, the Nissan is always plugged in to the 22kW free charger. The maximum charge rate of a Leaf? 6.6kW. They would be getting just as much free electricity parked up at one of the 7kW chargers - but they probably completely oblivious - as I was!

You have to do a bit of digging just to find this stuff out. The manufacturers' should stick something on the 'filler' door, much like you had back in the day with 'unleaded only' or '95 octane'. If you can't benefit from a more modern charger, you're potentially denying someone else and that seems a bit silly. With Pod Point public free chargers you need to log in to 'accept' the charge even when there's no cost, so why isn't there a prompt in the app at this point, which is sentient to there being chargers a few yards away? It should say something akin to "the onboard charger in your vehicle (you have to register with your numberplate, make / model) cannot charge at more than XXkW, please consider using an alternative charger"

I don't even have a home charger yet (privately rent... awaiting the new EVHS scheme) and have relied on 'free' public chargers, the charge point at work and the other day we went to plug in at a Supercharger just to see how they worked. Public charging infrastructure isn't the bottleneck people assume it is.

[DMZ]

Well the fact that none of them other than Tesla seems to care all that much about charging perhaps says it all. I guess they strictly speaking don't care if people buy EV or ICE or PHEV. Presumably the main idea behind EVs for them is to tap into tax incentives and make the corporate CO2 numbers look a bit better.

As far as I'm aware, only Tesla and maybe Polestar via Google have a route and charger guidance capability in the sat nav that you can actually rely upon. Not even getting that right in an EV is nearly criminally bad.

[LukeBrown66]

I think in some ways it will be OK, but I do fear that for the poorer, when we are either taxed out of ICE or forced and use public transport it will be because EV's have been forced onto the world before it is ready or we are well off enough to afford them.

Yes the market will change, but put it this way. What happens in a terraced street? Parking bays outside houses that you cannot or should not guarantee are yours, who installs them? We would not own the land to put it on, should the government or council do it, they cannot afford it locally? What about apartments, you might be a tenant who can afford one, you might have your own parking bay, it might be easy to wire a charger up, or not, but then the landlord only owns the bricks, not the parking area, which is probably owned and run by a housing company, so there are now 3 people involved in the costs. imagine the disputes over permissions and who pays?

It works right now as the rich are bankrolling car companies and charger manufacturers to tick a pointless aren't I clever with my green plate box, but when it becomes necessary for real people to buy a car and charge it at home, the issues are obviously apparent, and not likely to change yet.

[Frimley111R]

Funk said:

I tried to get my fellow freeholders to look into this - we have eight flats in the block each with allocated parking. I suggested three chargers - two serving one pair of spaces and a third covering the remaining three. Despite pushback from older residents ("..why should I fund it? I won't get any benefit from it...") I contacted several firms trying to get estimates and heard nothing back from any of them. 6 months down the line I'm now looking at moving anyway so have given up making it my problem.

I would never get an EV without the ability to charge it at home overnight. The public charging network just isn't ready yet.

Honestly, as an EV installer flats are a PITA. As you say here, it is often a residents decision and half say they won't use them and the other half don't expect to have an EV or even drive a car. We can do a lot of work only to find out this is the case.

Now, when we get calls from flats we check whether it is a landlord funding it or residents. if it's residents I explain what will happen and they tend to go away.

[Frimley111R]

The Mad Monk said:

blueacid said:

TheRainMaker said:

We work at a fair few 5* hotels out of town, the one I'm at today has a carpark that holds around 300 cars, they have six chargers all of which are in use as we speak. I say in use, but the reality is two chargers are taken up by two Teslas which have been here for over 48 hours and not moved and another space taken up by an electric minibus thing that is not even plugged in...

So from six chargers, they are now down to three.....

A few nights ago they had extension cables out from reception for cars to charge, and four out of the six chargers had cars plugged in but fully charged, this was around 8 pm.

I can see the free for guest to use chargers disappearing very quick and them going for a charge per use system to stop people dumping cars.

Seems like in that situation the solution is a fine or a fee for using those parking bays while not usefully charging.

I'm looking forward to when the chargers are within 'reach' of 2 or perhaps even 4 parking spaces, lessening the risk of the charger being uselessly blocked.

Perhaps the answer would be to charge at an hourly rate for as long as the bay is occupied? That would incentivise drivers to move their cars away as soon as they have taken the charge they need?

We tell our clients to give people a few hours at a std pricing then change it to £5-10 an hour. People seem to move off quite quickly then!

[Funk]

Frimley111R said:

Funk said:

I tried to get my fellow freeholders to look into this - we have eight flats in the block each with allocated parking. I suggested three chargers - two serving one pair of spaces and a third covering the remaining three. Despite pushback from older residents ("..why should I fund it? I won't get any benefit from it...") I contacted several firms trying to get estimates and heard nothing back from any of them. 6 months down the line I'm now looking at moving anyway so have given up making it my problem.

I would never get an EV without the ability to charge it at home overnight. The public charging network just isn't ready yet.

Honestly, as an EV installer flats are a PITA. As you say here, it is often a residents decision and half say they won't use them and the other half don't expect to have an EV or even drive a car. We can do a lot of work only to find out this is the case.

Now, when we get calls from flats we check whether it is a landlord funding it or residents. if it's residents I explain what will happen and they tend to go away.

Understandable. The irony is that we'd actually be one of the easier ones to do - we collectively own our freehold and self-manage the building which means we're also in control of our finances etc. We also have piss-easy installation access from street to the rear where two of the chargers would go.

The irony is that it may not even cost as much as some of the freeholders think but I couldn't even get budgetary figures from any firms to put in front of them. You'd think that wrapping up a block of flats with 'x' customerson a multi-year term would be an easy result. I know we'd pay more per kw/h than if we were running from our own supplies but realistically a communal approach is the only way it can be made to work. Having one period of installation disruption, commonality of charging point and agreed locations would be better than a crap 'piecemeal' approach (if that were even an option, as I'm sure some of the freeholders would object to an individual trying to install a solution just for one bay/themselves).

As I say, I'm hopefully moving soon so.....not my circus, not my monkey.

[LukeBrown66]

I think a big issue is with larger apartment blocks, say a block of flats type place, the amount of people living there from one minute to the next is an issue too.

[vikingaero]

It seems that putting EV supplies into flats depends on how engaged or forward thinking residents are. The problem is is that flats have an aged population that may not benefit or the population can be highly transient.

As an example, I'm a member of a caving club that has a cottage in South Wales miles from anywhere. We are actively looking at installing at least one EV point and looking at combining it with a few electric hook-up ports for the explosion in campervans.