I saw a parked iPace so went to a dealership

[TheDeuce]

JonnyVTEC said:

It’s a very good car and it’s only real weakness is the charging = Achilles heel.

My wife drove mine to the shops the other day at got 4.4mile/kWh! It can be done just different when it’s a performance car! In this weather getting 3 is no real drama either. I did 3.1 this evenings commute even with a short stretch of motorway at 90leptons…. I think the moderate charging and keeping the battery warm means short trips in cold weather can be ‘poor efficiency’

I questioned 'achilles heel' because the charge speed is almost irrelevant to most people, so can't be said to let the rest of the car down. In the same way I don't believe one muscle car is let down because it gets 18mpg just because another gets 19mpg.. it's simply not an issue that will effect the vast majority of owners enjoyment of the car either way.

I get about 2.7 kw/h average, but that's driven with no regard for efficiency, just getting a to b quickly and enjoying the car. Although I have noticed that overall driving style doesn't seem to have a dramatic effect on range, other than high speed motorway miles due to air resistance.

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 19th May 08:09

[Ardennes92]

TheDeuce said:

If you asked most young people now if they thought their Dad should get an ICE or electric car though... They've all spent years in school learning about how we broke the planet, they like electric cars, it's modern and on trend. Actually, they really like a car with endless USB ports and strong wifi

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 16th May 22:23

Trouble is that it is a case of do as I say not as I do when it comes to the environment and schooling; the couldn’t give a rats ass about short term effects; just look at “fast fashion” sales and the churn rate of disposable tech with regard to the young/young at heart

[S600BSB]

TheDeuce said:

JonnyVTEC said:

It’s a very good car and it’s only real weakness is the charging = Achilles heel.

My wife drove mine to the shops the other day at got 4.4mile/kWh! It can be done just different when it’s a performance car! In this weather getting 3 is no real drama either. I did 3.1 this evenings commute even with a short stretch of motorway at 90leptons…. I think the moderate charging and keeping the battery warm means short trips in cold weather can be ‘poor efficiency’

I questioned 'achilles heel' because the charge speed is almost irrelevant to most people, so can't be said to let the rest of the car down. In the same way I don't believe one muscle car is let down because it gets 18mpg just because another gets 19mpg.. it's simply not an issue that will effect the vast majority of owners enjoyment of the car either way.

I get about 2.7 kw/h average, but that's driven with no regard for efficiency, just getting a to b quickly and enjoying the car. Although I have noticed that overall driving style doesn't seem to have a dramatic effect on range, other than high speed motorway miles due to air resistance.

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 19th May 08:09

I use mine as my work hack and am getting about 250 miles out of a full charge at the moment. It obviously drops a bit in the winter. Only used a public charger on 2 occasions in 18 months, so I am not really bothered about charge speed. After plugging in overnight I have a full charge - that's what matters. It's a fabulous car.

[DMZ]

Charge speed seems to be something that matters a lot on YT. Before picking the I-Pace I did a few simulations with ABRP with a couple of different contenders on some longer trips that we sometimes do and the difference was a few mins here and there. Obviously each and everyone have their own usage patterns but it was an irrelevance for me anyhow. If you want to get somewhere fast and hassle free it’s ICE all day long, the rest is a rounding error.

[TheDeuce]

DMZ said:

Charge speed seems to be something that matters a lot on YT. Before picking the I-Pace I did a few simulations with ABRP with a couple of different contenders on some longer trips that we sometimes do and the difference was a few mins here and there. Obviously each and everyone have their own usage patterns but it was an irrelevance for me anyhow. If you want to get somewhere fast and hassle free it’s ICE all day long, the rest is a rounding error.

I too find that most YT and other reviews of EV's do tend to overly focus on the issue of charging ease and times, efficiency and so on. For some reason the motoring press seem obsessed over these aspects and often largely at the expense of the actual car itself - which is a shame.

As you say, the real world difference is very little between a fast and 'slow' charging EV. Like most I hardly ever use public chargers and when I do it's for a top-up, 30%-70% or whatever it achieves in the time I'm doing some shopping or grabbing lunch. It's got a real world 250 mile range and even a common as muck 50kw charger will add another 100+ miles to that in about 45 minutes tops. So then I have a total of 350m range for the journey... how big exactly is this little island we live upon

I appreciate that some people frequently do long round trips under a deadline but most in that position would buy a Tesla for the supercharging network, or let's be honest, if range is the key factor in buying a car.. a diesel still makes a great deal of sense.

For anyone who hardly ever drives more than 250 miles in one go, they can buy pretty much any EV with a decent sized battery and don't worry about charge times/curves and so on. It will never affect them, they'll be asleep as it charges and wake up with a fresh 250 miles to play with the following morning.

[Zcd1]

Here’s an example of the difference between the iPace’s road tripping ability and a Model Y, for instance, for a 400-mile journey:

IPace (1 hour 58 minutes of charging time/3 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=808d19f...

Model Y LR: (42 minutes of charging time/2 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=689e7da...

TLDR;
iPace requires more than 3X the charging time, and adds 1:15 to the trip elapsed time of what’s otherwise a 6.5 hour trip.

[TheDeuce]

Zcd1 said:

Here’s an example of the difference between the iPace’s road tripping ability and a Model Y, for instance, for a 400-mile journey:

IPace (1 hour 58 minutes of charging time/3 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=808d19f...

Model Y LR: (42 minutes of charging time/2 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=689e7da...

TLDR;
iPace requires more than 3X the charging time, and adds 1:15 to the trip elapsed time of what’s otherwise a 6.5 hour trip.

The ipace can do 250 miles on a charge and a basic 50kw charger would add another 150 miles range in less than 90 minutes... why does it take 3 stops to get it done?

Anyway, anyone doing that sort of trip often should buy the Tesla, or a diesel.

Based on both using the same speed charger, what is the difference in time to add an additional hundred miles. Assume for this exercise that at the start of charging the battery would be approx. 30% charged. That's more of a real life scenario, just topping up the battery to complete a journey.

[matrignano]

Isn't the ipace quite long in the tooth now?

[TheDeuce]

matrignano said:

Isn't the ipace quite long in the tooth now?

Not until someone produces a better driving EV chassis for the money.

Got all the latest tech, had a big infotainment refresh too.

[Zcd1]

TheDeuce said:

The ipace can do 250 miles on a charge and a basic 50kw charger would add another 150 miles range in less than 90 minutes... why does it take 3 stops to get it done?...Based on both using the same speed charger, what is the difference in time to add an additional hundred miles...

"A Better Route Planner" calculates the quickest way to make any EV journey, given the specific vehicle and available chargers. It's often quicker to make a trip with 2 shorter stops than with one longer stop because EVs charge faster with lower SOC. "Topping up" (to 90-100%) takes a ridiculously long time, so staying between 20 and 80% SOC is much more efficient time-wise.

It's not realistic to suggest that vehicles with different maximum charging speeds use chargers of equal capacity. The Tesla can accept up to 250KW, while the i-Pace is limited to 125/150 KW

[SWoll]

Zcd1 said:

"A Better Route Planner" calculates the quickest way to make any EV journey, given the specific vehicle and available chargers. It's often quicker to make a trip with 2 shorter stops than with one longer stop because EVs charge faster with lower SOC. "Topping up" (to 90-100%) takes a ridiculously long time, so staying between 20 and 80% SOC is much more efficient time-wise.

It's not realistic to suggest that vehicles with different maximum charging speeds use chargers of equal capacity. The Tesla can accept up to 250KW, while the i-Pace is limited to 125/150 KW

Quite a few, including Model 3 and iPace, drop off horribly once they get to 50% let alone 80%. Headline charging speed figures should be ignored IME, the average speed from 10%-90% would be a far more useful measure for most.

[oop north]

Live in Preston and with daughters at university in Aberystwyth and Edinburgh I know how long charging in an ipace actually takes: two hours on a trip to/from Edinburgh and 1.5 hours Aberystwyth. Makes a long day a lot longer

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

Zcd1 said:

"A Better Route Planner" calculates the quickest way to make any EV journey, given the specific vehicle and available chargers. It's often quicker to make a trip with 2 shorter stops than with one longer stop because EVs charge faster with lower SOC. "Topping up" (to 90-100%) takes a ridiculously long time, so staying between 20 and 80% SOC is much more efficient time-wise.

It's not realistic to suggest that vehicles with different maximum charging speeds use chargers of equal capacity. The Tesla can accept up to 250KW, while the i-Pace is limited to 125/150 KW

Quite a few, including Model 3 and iPace, drop off horribly once they get to 50% let alone 80%. Headline charging speed figures should be ignored IME, the average speed from 10%-90% would be a far more useful measure for most.

I know from experience that in under 90 minutes I can add at least 150miles to the IPace at 50kw. That's enough to complete 400 mile journey and certainly fast enough for me.

SWOLL, you understand the charge curves... How much quicker would your etron increase charge by 40kw over my Ipace, assuming both were using a 50kw charger and both had approx 20% charge to star with?

[SWoll]

oop north said:

Live in Preston and with daughters at university in Aberystwyth and Edinburgh I know how long charging in an ipace actually takes: two hours on a trip to/from Edinburgh and 1.5 hours Aberystwyth. Makes a long day a lot longer

They're about as slow as it gets for a large EV. Big battery, low max rate, poor charging curve.

I seem to remember a Bjorn video where it took an hour to go from 10-80% after a software update to improve things, so an average rate of about 60kW. As an example our etron 55 with a similarly sized battery will charge at 150kW from 10-80% so less than half the time.

TheDeuce said:

I know from experience that in under 90 minutes I can add at least 150miles to the IPace at 50kw. That's enough to complete 400 mile journey and certainly fast enough for me.

SWOLL, you understand the charge curves... How much quicker would your etron increase charge by 40kw over my Ipace, assuming both were using a 50kw charger and both had approx 20% charge to star with?

On a 50kW charger they'd take the same amount of time as only fast charging and getting nowhere near the limits for either car. You'd have to be pretty desperate to use a 50kW on a road trip in 2022 though?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 19th May 15:04

[dmsims]

Thing is with an Etron you would absolutely avoid using a 50kW charger

ISTR the Etron is around 150kW from 10 to 80%

[SWoll]

etron 55 curve



ipace 400 curve

[TheDeuce]

SWoll said:

oop north said:

Live in Preston and with daughters at university in Aberystwyth and Edinburgh I know how long charging in an ipace actually takes: two hours on a trip to/from Edinburgh and 1.5 hours Aberystwyth. Makes a long day a lot longer

They're about as slow as it gets for a large EV. Big battery, low max rate, poor charging curve.

I seem to remember a Bjorn video where it took an hour to go from 10-80% after a software update to improve things, so an average rate of about 60kW. As an example our etron 55 with a similarly sized battery will charge at 150kW from 10-80% so less than half the time.

TheDeuce said:

I know from experience that in under 90 minutes I can add at least 150miles to the IPace at 50kw. That's enough to complete 400 mile journey and certainly fast enough for me.

SWOLL, you understand the charge curves... How much quicker would your etron increase charge by 40kw over my Ipace, assuming both were using a 50kw charger and both had approx 20% charge to star with?

On a 50kW charger they'd take the same amount of time as only fast charging and getting nowhere near the limits for either car. You'd have to be pretty desperate to use a 50kW on a road trip in 2022 though?

Edited by SWoll on Thursday 19th May 15:04

It's the fastest I've ever used

And they're everywhere, thousands of them mostly rarely used I find. Driven sensibly with a full charge to start and an hour or so break for lunch near a 50kw charger = about 350 miles range from my doorstep to get wherever I need to be. It's enough, I'd end up driving into the sea before running out of charge if I was headed any direction other than north. If I do go further I take train/plane.

This is my point. Other cars charge appreciably faster on paper, but the average driver who rarely goes several hundred miles in a day isn't ever going to really appreciate the difference. So long as it's fast 'enough' then the priority shifts to choosing the car you actually want to drive.

[JonnyVTEC]

Zcd1 said:

Here’s an example of the difference between the iPace’s road tripping ability and a Model Y, for instance, for a 400-mile journey:

IPace (1 hour 58 minutes of charging time/3 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=808d19f...

Model Y LR: (42 minutes of charging time/2 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=689e7da...

TLDR;
iPace requires more than 3X the charging time, and adds 1:15 to the trip elapsed time of what’s otherwise a 6.5 hour trip.

Some crummy app prediction is not anything real. The spacing of those chargers are weird to make you charge at 39% aswell as a quirk. 400 miles in this country and from where I live you are in the sea in most directions!

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Thursday 19th May 17:26

[TheDeuce]

JonnyVTEC said:

Zcd1 said:

Here’s an example of the difference between the iPace’s road tripping ability and a Model Y, for instance, for a 400-mile journey:

IPace (1 hour 58 minutes of charging time/3 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=808d19f...

Model Y LR: (42 minutes of charging time/2 stops)

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=689e7da...

TLDR;
iPace requires more than 3X the charging time, and adds 1:15 to the trip elapsed time of what’s otherwise a 6.5 hour trip.

Some crummy app prediction is not anything real. The spacing of those chargers are weird to make you charge at 39% aswell as a quirk. 400 miles in this country and from where I live you are in the sea in most directions!

Edited by JonnyVTEC on Thursday 19th May 17:26

The app has to be wrong on this occasion. The iPace starts with 250 miles real world range and adding another 150 only takes an hour and a bit at a 50kw charger, more like 35 minutes at a 100kw... I can't fathom why the app suggests over 2 hours charging across three separate chargers. I've driven 400 miles previously without such fuss.

[dmsims]

TheDeuce said:

The iPace starts with 250 miles real world range

I simply don't believe that (esp since discussing longer journeys)