Nissan Leaf - 7 day test drive - a blog of my experience
Discussion
cheddar said:
That's a bold statement when Tesla's 690hp P85D will go 300 miles on a single charge.
Maybe. Very expensively though. Unless there is a breakthrough in battery physics and chemistry I can't see EV's being mainstream for a long time unless taxes become prohibitive on ICE cars. Which wouldn't surprise me with the sorts of people who seem to be pulling the strings now.
Hi there,
This was the range this morning before leaving home
OK so following on from my previous post I reached the office just outside Knutsford with 21 miles showing.
I did stop at Keele services (northbound) on the way up. The Ecotricity fast charger was out of service, but the AC medium charger was working. Tried the Oyster card trick and it worked (great tip thanks pboyall), charger turned on I connected up and waited 10 mins to make sure all ok. This won't have put any real charge in the car but was just curious to see if it would work, and it did.
Plugged the car in at the office (normal 3 pin plug) around 8:30am and cracked on with my admin.
I had planned a route to Liverpool, was assuming that I could not use Ecotricity cards and this is how I would have done it: -
1) 7am Drive from home to office to pick up some paperwork etc that I need for Liverpool meetings
2) 10am Drive from office to Nissan dealer in Widnes, charge car on fast charger and wait 30 mins
3) Drive to Liverpool for meetings
4) Drive from Liverpool to Nissan dealer in Warrington, charge car on fast charger and wait 30 mins
5) Back to office for rest of days meetings around 3pm.
6) Drive home around 5pm
This would have been 180 miles and I honestly believe that had the dealers both had operating rapid chargers it was certainly do-able.
I could have chanced the Oyster card trick and used the Ikea in Warrington both there and back so would not have had to make diversions to Nissan dealers but was not 100% happy doing this in case it didn't work.
As it happened a guy who I had a meeting with at the office this morning lives in Liverpool and he agreed to take the items over that I needed to send so I did not make the trip.
Instead cleared all my admin, left the car on charge all day. Unplugged it at 5pm and it was showing 72 miles (approx 80% charge).
So I headed home and got home after the most relaxing drive ever with 25 miles left.
I have to say the drive home was memorable. If the trip to Knutsford and back was my daily commute (98 miles in total) and I did not need to go into Manchester three days a week then I would by a Leaf tomorrow. It is pretty much perfect, charge overnight, drive to work, charge during the day and drive home. No risk of running out of charge as I have had 20 miles left at each end. Flawless.
Miles covered = 98
Time spent on charge = 8.5hrs (normal 3 pin charger into Mains at office)
Someone asked about a cost for charge, he is a pic from my Smart meter tonight
This Smart meter is in the kitchen at home so includes the normal electric of a 2 bed detached house for a full day plus the charging of the car.
Heres a grab from tonight whilst its on charge
Again this includes the house usage.
So I plugged the car in tonight at 6:30pm and will probably turn it off around 9:30am tomorrow (its Saturday so a lie in) though the charger will turn off once the car if fully charged at which point the electric useage will drop. I reckon my figure of £2 is about right for an overnight charge.
Easy day tomorrow food shopping etc so perhaps no more than 30 miles but will report back.
Regards
Tim
This was the range this morning before leaving home
OK so following on from my previous post I reached the office just outside Knutsford with 21 miles showing.
I did stop at Keele services (northbound) on the way up. The Ecotricity fast charger was out of service, but the AC medium charger was working. Tried the Oyster card trick and it worked (great tip thanks pboyall), charger turned on I connected up and waited 10 mins to make sure all ok. This won't have put any real charge in the car but was just curious to see if it would work, and it did.
Plugged the car in at the office (normal 3 pin plug) around 8:30am and cracked on with my admin.
I had planned a route to Liverpool, was assuming that I could not use Ecotricity cards and this is how I would have done it: -
1) 7am Drive from home to office to pick up some paperwork etc that I need for Liverpool meetings
2) 10am Drive from office to Nissan dealer in Widnes, charge car on fast charger and wait 30 mins
3) Drive to Liverpool for meetings
4) Drive from Liverpool to Nissan dealer in Warrington, charge car on fast charger and wait 30 mins
5) Back to office for rest of days meetings around 3pm.
6) Drive home around 5pm
This would have been 180 miles and I honestly believe that had the dealers both had operating rapid chargers it was certainly do-able.
I could have chanced the Oyster card trick and used the Ikea in Warrington both there and back so would not have had to make diversions to Nissan dealers but was not 100% happy doing this in case it didn't work.
As it happened a guy who I had a meeting with at the office this morning lives in Liverpool and he agreed to take the items over that I needed to send so I did not make the trip.
Instead cleared all my admin, left the car on charge all day. Unplugged it at 5pm and it was showing 72 miles (approx 80% charge).
So I headed home and got home after the most relaxing drive ever with 25 miles left.
I have to say the drive home was memorable. If the trip to Knutsford and back was my daily commute (98 miles in total) and I did not need to go into Manchester three days a week then I would by a Leaf tomorrow. It is pretty much perfect, charge overnight, drive to work, charge during the day and drive home. No risk of running out of charge as I have had 20 miles left at each end. Flawless.
Miles covered = 98
Time spent on charge = 8.5hrs (normal 3 pin charger into Mains at office)
Someone asked about a cost for charge, he is a pic from my Smart meter tonight
This Smart meter is in the kitchen at home so includes the normal electric of a 2 bed detached house for a full day plus the charging of the car.
Heres a grab from tonight whilst its on charge
Again this includes the house usage.
So I plugged the car in tonight at 6:30pm and will probably turn it off around 9:30am tomorrow (its Saturday so a lie in) though the charger will turn off once the car if fully charged at which point the electric useage will drop. I reckon my figure of £2 is about right for an overnight charge.
Easy day tomorrow food shopping etc so perhaps no more than 30 miles but will report back.
Regards
Tim
rovermorris999 said:
cheddar said:
That's a bold statement when Tesla's 690hp P85D will go 300 miles on a single charge.
Maybe. Very expensively though. Unless there is a breakthrough in battery physics and chemistry I can't see EV's being mainstream for a long time unless taxes become prohibitive on ICE cars. Which wouldn't surprise me with the sorts of people who seem to be pulling the strings now.Electrically operated windows were once the preserve of the rich and vehicle airconditioning cost £5000.
I don't think that the affordable, 500 mile range, quick charging EV is that far away
cheddar said:
Natural evolution surely, I doubt we'll see a 'breakthrough', more like steady, ongoing improvements through R&D and lower pricing through mass production.
Electrically operated windows were once the preserve of the rich and vehicle airconditioning cost £5000.
I don't think that the affordable, 500 mile range, quick charging EV is that far away
Possibly. You'll need a big step-change in battery capacity or a method for charging in a few minutes though. Something that has been chased for years and not achieved yet. All it needs is one breakthrough though which can't be predicted and may or may not happen. Electric windows and aircon didn't need a scientific discovery, merely manufacturing efficiency and economies of scale.Electrically operated windows were once the preserve of the rich and vehicle airconditioning cost £5000.
I don't think that the affordable, 500 mile range, quick charging EV is that far away
Sorry OP, we're drifting OT.
Edited by rovermorris999 on Friday 13th March 21:53
Interesting read so far. I drive a Zoe since last Dec. I don't even think of it as an EV anymore. To all intensive purposes it no different than a regular car, just like any other, except I don't need to pay to put petrol in it. Or pay for road tax, or pay for servicing. It has about a 60 mile range in this cold and with my far from eco driving style, but I rarely do more than this in a day and if I do it charges fairly quick.
rovermorris999 said:
Sorry OP, we're drifting OT.
+1Edited by rovermorris999 on Friday 13th March 21:53
Enjoying the read Op, still can't get over all the planning, possible 30 minute waits and range anxiety though.
I'm a dyed in the wool petrolhead, owned about 60 cars and only bought my first diesel vehicle recently but (and don't laugh at the analogy) I do own an electric golf cart that I use everyday and a friend owns a petrol cart, my cart runs silently and offers up instant torque whereas my friends cart seems ancient, noisy, smelly, complicated and fussy in comparison.
Extrapolate that out into real world motoring and I can see the day when we're almost all driving EV's.
Remember when petrolheads thought that auto gearboxes were the work of the devil?
Reading the Op's accounts the Leaf is just too compromised by its limited range and extended charge times relative to conventionally powered vehicles but I'm enjoying the blog
Hi there,
Pretty easy day today with nothing to really report.
Headed off food shopping, found myself taking the wife to a supermarket around 15 miles away just so I could give the Leaf a good drive without worrying about the range. Covered 30 miles, never turned the economy mode on and it was good experience a short journey as I knew I could accelerate hard and do 80mph on dual carriageways without having to watch the range.
My wife quite likes the car as well, and as us men all know thats a bonus.
Started the day with 86 miles, parked it up and put it on charge with around 40 miles left.
Tommorow sees a trip over the hills to the Peak District, then back home before over to Derby for a family meal.
Will report back tomorrow
Regards
Tim
Pretty easy day today with nothing to really report.
Headed off food shopping, found myself taking the wife to a supermarket around 15 miles away just so I could give the Leaf a good drive without worrying about the range. Covered 30 miles, never turned the economy mode on and it was good experience a short journey as I knew I could accelerate hard and do 80mph on dual carriageways without having to watch the range.
My wife quite likes the car as well, and as us men all know thats a bonus.
Started the day with 86 miles, parked it up and put it on charge with around 40 miles left.
Tommorow sees a trip over the hills to the Peak District, then back home before over to Derby for a family meal.
Will report back tomorrow
Regards
Tim
Suggest you use D up hill and B down, but bet you figured that one out already :-)
Regarding my "bold statement" about the future of Electric Cars ... it's got three reasons and aplogies for the long off topic post in advance.
1) Economic. Nissan will replace the Leaf battery for £5000 - *provided* you trade in the old one, since the battery is 100% recyclable and a huge part of the cost is the raw materials. A Model S battery is said to cost about $40000 (note the change of currency).
2) Physical. The Model S is a huge car not because Elon Musk wanted to build a Jag competitor but because that's the samllest they could make it with the battery still fitting between the wheels (i.e. not in a crumple zone). To fit 85kWh of capacity into a Leaf you would have to stretch it *and* replace the rear seats with batteries. Plus the extra mass would mean upgrading brakes and suspension.
Now, the theory is that the above two challenges will be solved with the passage of time. However, Lithium batteries have been on sale for 25 years. The Leaf itself has been on sale for five years (with no significant improvement beyond a better heater). Tesla has been making electric cars since 2008, is selling significant numbers of Model S and is actually using the same cells found in phones and laptops.
So that tells us there are no easy improvements to be made to battery technology and nor is there likely to be a sudden massive drop in the cost of the batteries - economies of scale and process improvements are largely accounted for already. Tesla's "gigafactory" is marketing more then engineering. The most optimistic estimates are for $200/kWh *cells* (not entire packs), by 2018. 85 * 200 = $17000 just for the battery. Then you have to package it and add all the other bits to make an actual battery pack. Basically even the optimistic estimates place the battery pack cost around the total cost of a normal car.
Fundamentally that means a 300-mile range electric car is going to remain around the size and weight of the Model S and costing at least as much as a specced-up petrol 3-Series. GM is aiming to produce a 200-mile range car (150 real) as a halfway house.
Which leads us to:
3) Psychological.
No matter how you cut it, electric cars [at a sensible price/size] won't have the range of regular petrol vehicles. Simple physics also means that refuelling an electric car is always going to be slower than pumping petrol into the tank. In the far future it's possible the closure of petrol stations means we end up with as many electric car chargers as petrol pumps (Japan already has more "EV pumps" then petrol ones!). But right now finding a charge is also a challenge.
Add those three things together and for the indefinite future it will be easy for anyone to justify continuing to buy a petrol car for any one of the three psychological reasons. They can always convince themselves it is vital they have the ability to drive from Aberdeen to Exeter without stopping for more then 3 minutes and that they can't rely on the satnav to find them a charger but must have the option to refuel every five miles of the journey.
Even if the furthest they've ever been is the local shops and they always use the same petrol station - it's psychological remember; consider how many people convince themselves that they must have a brand new car "for the reliability" ...
Regarding my "bold statement" about the future of Electric Cars ... it's got three reasons and aplogies for the long off topic post in advance.
1) Economic. Nissan will replace the Leaf battery for £5000 - *provided* you trade in the old one, since the battery is 100% recyclable and a huge part of the cost is the raw materials. A Model S battery is said to cost about $40000 (note the change of currency).
2) Physical. The Model S is a huge car not because Elon Musk wanted to build a Jag competitor but because that's the samllest they could make it with the battery still fitting between the wheels (i.e. not in a crumple zone). To fit 85kWh of capacity into a Leaf you would have to stretch it *and* replace the rear seats with batteries. Plus the extra mass would mean upgrading brakes and suspension.
Now, the theory is that the above two challenges will be solved with the passage of time. However, Lithium batteries have been on sale for 25 years. The Leaf itself has been on sale for five years (with no significant improvement beyond a better heater). Tesla has been making electric cars since 2008, is selling significant numbers of Model S and is actually using the same cells found in phones and laptops.
So that tells us there are no easy improvements to be made to battery technology and nor is there likely to be a sudden massive drop in the cost of the batteries - economies of scale and process improvements are largely accounted for already. Tesla's "gigafactory" is marketing more then engineering. The most optimistic estimates are for $200/kWh *cells* (not entire packs), by 2018. 85 * 200 = $17000 just for the battery. Then you have to package it and add all the other bits to make an actual battery pack. Basically even the optimistic estimates place the battery pack cost around the total cost of a normal car.
Fundamentally that means a 300-mile range electric car is going to remain around the size and weight of the Model S and costing at least as much as a specced-up petrol 3-Series. GM is aiming to produce a 200-mile range car (150 real) as a halfway house.
Which leads us to:
3) Psychological.
No matter how you cut it, electric cars [at a sensible price/size] won't have the range of regular petrol vehicles. Simple physics also means that refuelling an electric car is always going to be slower than pumping petrol into the tank. In the far future it's possible the closure of petrol stations means we end up with as many electric car chargers as petrol pumps (Japan already has more "EV pumps" then petrol ones!). But right now finding a charge is also a challenge.
Add those three things together and for the indefinite future it will be easy for anyone to justify continuing to buy a petrol car for any one of the three psychological reasons. They can always convince themselves it is vital they have the ability to drive from Aberdeen to Exeter without stopping for more then 3 minutes and that they can't rely on the satnav to find them a charger but must have the option to refuel every five miles of the journey.
Even if the furthest they've ever been is the local shops and they always use the same petrol station - it's psychological remember; consider how many people convince themselves that they must have a brand new car "for the reliability" ...
Hi there,
Sunday was a bit of a realisation that at the moment EV technology is just not quite there. Well at least the battery life of a Leaf is just not there.
Started the day with 85 miles, headed over to see mum as its Mothers Day, she lives about 22 miles away but its cross country and very up and down. Got there and back with the range showing 45 miles by the time I reached home.
The afternoon was to be a trip to Derby so my son could treat my wife to a meal for Mothers Day. Derby is 20 miles each way but pretty much all of that is dual carriageway which we all know is not good for the range (well not at 70mph anyway). This meant with no fast charger at home, and no chargers anywhere near the restaurant in Derby that I had to take the wifes Citroen C1. Not the most exciting car to drive but at least I knew I could get there and back without having to really think about it.
45 miles left on the range and a 40 mile round trip was just not feasible.
A failure for the Leaf then :-(
Another trip to Manchester tomorrow via Eccles so 70 miles of motorway driving in the morning before parking up in town on charge all day. Plenty of chargers in the Greater Manchester area so once I get past the M6 leg I should be all ok.
Anyone know if BMW dealers will do an extended test drive on a I3 REX ?
Regards
Tim
Sunday was a bit of a realisation that at the moment EV technology is just not quite there. Well at least the battery life of a Leaf is just not there.
Started the day with 85 miles, headed over to see mum as its Mothers Day, she lives about 22 miles away but its cross country and very up and down. Got there and back with the range showing 45 miles by the time I reached home.
The afternoon was to be a trip to Derby so my son could treat my wife to a meal for Mothers Day. Derby is 20 miles each way but pretty much all of that is dual carriageway which we all know is not good for the range (well not at 70mph anyway). This meant with no fast charger at home, and no chargers anywhere near the restaurant in Derby that I had to take the wifes Citroen C1. Not the most exciting car to drive but at least I knew I could get there and back without having to really think about it.
45 miles left on the range and a 40 mile round trip was just not feasible.
A failure for the Leaf then :-(
Another trip to Manchester tomorrow via Eccles so 70 miles of motorway driving in the morning before parking up in town on charge all day. Plenty of chargers in the Greater Manchester area so once I get past the M6 leg I should be all ok.
Anyone know if BMW dealers will do an extended test drive on a I3 REX ?
Regards
Tim
carhelp said:
hi, as part of my extended project i am writing about the advancements towards electric power. i was wondering, as you have had hands on experience with the nissan leaf, whether we will see more cars like this in the near future or if there is still research to be done?
Cheers
Hi there,Cheers
Tough question to answer having only had the car for a few days. If I was you I would start a new thread with your question as I think there are loads of people on here, some with much longer experience of all types of EV who I am sure will give you some valid input.
Regards
Tim
Hi there,
OK, Day 6 with the Leaf.
Change of tactic today as my Ecotricity card arrived in the post this morning.
I left home around 8:15am this morning with 85 miles of charge showing. Headed along A50, onto A500 and then picked up the M6 north heading for Manchester. Was not particularly careful with the accelerator pedal and knew that I could stop at J19 for a rapid charge.
Pulled up at Knutsford services with 35 miles showing on the car. Plugged into the Ecotricity rapid charger, sat back and answered some Monday morning emails before heading off 26 mins later having boosted the car to 83% charge (range showing as 68 miles).
Had an appointment in Eccles on my way into town, did this and got to Manchester city centre around 10:45am with around 35 miles left (again not being particularly careful with the accelerator).
Headed for a GMEV charger, but when I got there I found out an engineer was working on the charging station so I just parked the car up in an normal car park (no charging points) and went off to my meetings.
Got back in the car around 4:15pm and headed out of town on the A5103, M56, A556 before picking up the M6 and pulling into Knutsford services for a rapid charge. Nipped off for a pee, did some more emails and admin for 30 mins and then headed home.
Got home around 6:10pm with 15 miles left showing on the display. I have plugged the car in overnight and will probably only do around 25 miles tomorrow as will use the train to get to Manchester.
Have to say this was a good day. Not worrying about stretching the range, knowing I could stop off and grab a quick charge made loads of difference and the Leaf became almost like driving a normal car. I could actually see me using this car every day.
Miles covered = 138
Time spent on charge = 1hr (2 x 30 mins rapid charging at M6 services)
Car is going back tomorrow night, full conclusion to follow. On another note BMW dealer rang today to confirm i3 REX test drive for next week. Apparently BMW don't do extended test drives but I have pushed them to let me have one for 24hrs.
Regards
Tim
OK, Day 6 with the Leaf.
Change of tactic today as my Ecotricity card arrived in the post this morning.
I left home around 8:15am this morning with 85 miles of charge showing. Headed along A50, onto A500 and then picked up the M6 north heading for Manchester. Was not particularly careful with the accelerator pedal and knew that I could stop at J19 for a rapid charge.
Pulled up at Knutsford services with 35 miles showing on the car. Plugged into the Ecotricity rapid charger, sat back and answered some Monday morning emails before heading off 26 mins later having boosted the car to 83% charge (range showing as 68 miles).
Had an appointment in Eccles on my way into town, did this and got to Manchester city centre around 10:45am with around 35 miles left (again not being particularly careful with the accelerator).
Headed for a GMEV charger, but when I got there I found out an engineer was working on the charging station so I just parked the car up in an normal car park (no charging points) and went off to my meetings.
Got back in the car around 4:15pm and headed out of town on the A5103, M56, A556 before picking up the M6 and pulling into Knutsford services for a rapid charge. Nipped off for a pee, did some more emails and admin for 30 mins and then headed home.
Got home around 6:10pm with 15 miles left showing on the display. I have plugged the car in overnight and will probably only do around 25 miles tomorrow as will use the train to get to Manchester.
Have to say this was a good day. Not worrying about stretching the range, knowing I could stop off and grab a quick charge made loads of difference and the Leaf became almost like driving a normal car. I could actually see me using this car every day.
Miles covered = 138
Time spent on charge = 1hr (2 x 30 mins rapid charging at M6 services)
Car is going back tomorrow night, full conclusion to follow. On another note BMW dealer rang today to confirm i3 REX test drive for next week. Apparently BMW don't do extended test drives but I have pushed them to let me have one for 24hrs.
Regards
Tim
Edited by autofocus on Tuesday 17th March 07:30
I'm enjoying reading about your experience.
Just a thought, I parked up at Bournemouth airport this weekend whilst I went away for a few days. The airport is about 45 miles away meaning not enough charge to get home. You can't leave it plugged in for the weekend whilst away, what do you do?
Just a thought, I parked up at Bournemouth airport this weekend whilst I went away for a few days. The airport is about 45 miles away meaning not enough charge to get home. You can't leave it plugged in for the weekend whilst away, what do you do?
pboyall said:
I too think the i3 Rex is a better bet for Tim, albeit at about £200 per month more!
Hi there,As mentioned earlier in the thread this will be an outright cash purchase (bought through the company and my MD is old fashioned that way) so the monthly payment makes no difference.
Looking at the cost to buy a nearly new Leaf (14 plate, minimal mileage) with no batter lease is £17500
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
Whereas an i3 REX would be £28000
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Big difference, certainly swings it massively in the favour of a Leaf
Regards
Tim
Hi there,
Seems like Nissan really are giving these things away. Tried to return my demo to the dealer tonight and they could not get my current car out of the car park as their valeter had the keys to a couple of cars blocking me in :-)
I cannot drop the Leaf back tomorrow due to work commitments so I am now keeping it until Thursday.
Today was pretty easy.
Drive from home to Stoke on Trent station (about 20miles) parked up, got train to Manchester.
Train back to Stoke on Trent and drove home. Got home with around 35 miles charge left. No need to charge at all today, just the usual overnight tonight ready for tomorrow.
Miles covered = 40 miles
Time spent on charge = 0
Should be a fun day tomorrow. Trip to Manchester and plenty of stock to carry as well. Will carrying a decent amount of weight affect the range, we'll see full report tomorrow.
Regards
Tim
Seems like Nissan really are giving these things away. Tried to return my demo to the dealer tonight and they could not get my current car out of the car park as their valeter had the keys to a couple of cars blocking me in :-)
I cannot drop the Leaf back tomorrow due to work commitments so I am now keeping it until Thursday.
Today was pretty easy.
Drive from home to Stoke on Trent station (about 20miles) parked up, got train to Manchester.
Train back to Stoke on Trent and drove home. Got home with around 35 miles charge left. No need to charge at all today, just the usual overnight tonight ready for tomorrow.
Miles covered = 40 miles
Time spent on charge = 0
Should be a fun day tomorrow. Trip to Manchester and plenty of stock to carry as well. Will carrying a decent amount of weight affect the range, we'll see full report tomorrow.
Regards
Tim
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