Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Heres Johnny said:
JPJPJP said:
Vernon unsworth’s opposition to musk’s motion for summary judgment
Ryan Mac of buzzfeed initial look
https://twitter.com/rmac18/status/1181393068701802...
I don’t know where this ends, but if it ends with musk writing a cheque, I’mbaffled Why he didn’t write it sooner to avoid this distraction from the rest of his life
This has the potential to be way more than a distraction. Depending on the demographics of those buying teslas this could be a Gerald Ratner moment if the final verdict is particularly harsh and the courts finds him not just of defamation but also of an attempted smear campaign of a ‘cave rescue hero’. Ryan Mac of buzzfeed initial look
https://twitter.com/rmac18/status/1181393068701802...
I don’t know where this ends, but if it ends with musk writing a cheque, I’mbaffled Why he didn’t write it sooner to avoid this distraction from the rest of his life
Edited by JPJPJP on Tuesday 8th October 04:13
We obviously were pretty confident Musk was using the children’s plight for his own gain but to have this pretty much confirmed as a PR stunt is pretty grim reading.
But just like the attacking of Unsworth, I don’t think that any of this would register as a negative in the minds of the early adopters or apex consumers. In fact do you not think it plausible that there are more consumers in the West who want to be associated to such behaviour than those who are repulsed by it in 2019?
DonkeyApple said:
This element of the case is pretty grim: ‘Additionally, Musk directed his team to pressure foreign officials in Thailand to say nice things about him and his mini-sub, even as they were grappling with what would prove to be a deadly rescue mission.’
We obviously were pretty confident Musk was using the children’s plight for his own gain but to have this pretty much confirmed as a PR stunt is pretty grim reading.
But just like the attacking of Unsworth, I don’t think that any of this would register as a negative in the minds of the early adopters or apex consumers. In fact do you not think it plausible that there are more consumers in the West who want to be associated to such behaviour than those who are repulsed by it in 2019?
There will certainly be a number who applaud the anti establishment behaviour of Musk but there’s always the potential for a line to be crossed.We obviously were pretty confident Musk was using the children’s plight for his own gain but to have this pretty much confirmed as a PR stunt is pretty grim reading.
But just like the attacking of Unsworth, I don’t think that any of this would register as a negative in the minds of the early adopters or apex consumers. In fact do you not think it plausible that there are more consumers in the West who want to be associated to such behaviour than those who are repulsed by it in 2019?
People are still dropping 45k+ of their money (or committing to finance) so it’s one thing celebrating his maverick behaviour but that might not translate into sales. To a point it’s how the opposition play it . It reminds me of the Audi advert a few years ago with the Yuppy (which dates it), living it large, look at me, work hard play hard... driving around in the Audi and at the end he chucked the keys back to the sales man saying not my style. I’m sure there’s still a broad segment of society that aren’t bothered about wooppie cushions in the car And may we not want to be associated with him. Its a question of numbers
Also be interesting if fleet companies refuse to allow the cars on company car books because of chronic service and lack of special arrangements etc. And I still think the tax man will raid BIK removing them exemption just for luxury cars and they’ll get taxed fully on salary sacrifice
Yup. BIK at the top end will have to be removed. It’ll happen once there is a credible supply of affordable EVs.
Firms like John Lewis will be key bell weathers on the fleet side. These are firms where the fleet manager has an obligation not just to ensure the products they have on the list are reliable but also that the image they promote is as well. Will these firms want staff promoting the Tesla image or an affordable EV image? Is the head buyer going to want the possible hassle of the brand suddenly becoming associated with some negative attribute?
In China they have mostly been used to promote an image of conspicuous consumption and when fleets have tried to use them as actual transport they’ve seemingly hit big issues. You can imagine that the chap at Toyota and his counterpart at VW who hold the relationships with the fleet buyers in the UK will make those buyers fully aware of the pitfalls of not going with a reliable supplier who can keep staff moving etc.
Firms like John Lewis will be key bell weathers on the fleet side. These are firms where the fleet manager has an obligation not just to ensure the products they have on the list are reliable but also that the image they promote is as well. Will these firms want staff promoting the Tesla image or an affordable EV image? Is the head buyer going to want the possible hassle of the brand suddenly becoming associated with some negative attribute?
In China they have mostly been used to promote an image of conspicuous consumption and when fleets have tried to use them as actual transport they’ve seemingly hit big issues. You can imagine that the chap at Toyota and his counterpart at VW who hold the relationships with the fleet buyers in the UK will make those buyers fully aware of the pitfalls of not going with a reliable supplier who can keep staff moving etc.
Vernon Unsworth was wrong to call out Elon Musk and his small sub on twitter in hindsight. It would never have worked and Vernon should have just said that.
However, if you go back to the actual days during that rescue there was an awful lot of stress as it seemed a hopeless task, the caves were horrible and it took multiple countries an awful lot of thought to work out how to get them out of there, which they did successfully.
Given that pressure I excuse Walt Unsworth for saying the madcap idea of a Tesla Sub was madcap. It was just stupid, but during the pressure moment he went all PIstonheads with his comment saying stick it up your arse...
Eventually they did get them all out, with one loss of life from a rescuer sadly. It was a fecking hard task.
My summary
Elon Musk butted in with a stupid idea, thinking of Tesla first.
He then made it worse by name calling. Then got a private detectives in to try and win.
Is that Sad and Fail or Fail and Sad? His twitter account is just like Donalds to be honest. Both are up against it at the moment.
Both have their die hard supporters. Elon supporters now saying "Old news, lets move on"
Tesla might be better served with Tim Cook in charge, or Ren Zhengfei
However, if you go back to the actual days during that rescue there was an awful lot of stress as it seemed a hopeless task, the caves were horrible and it took multiple countries an awful lot of thought to work out how to get them out of there, which they did successfully.
Given that pressure I excuse Walt Unsworth for saying the madcap idea of a Tesla Sub was madcap. It was just stupid, but during the pressure moment he went all PIstonheads with his comment saying stick it up your arse...
Eventually they did get them all out, with one loss of life from a rescuer sadly. It was a fecking hard task.
My summary
Elon Musk butted in with a stupid idea, thinking of Tesla first.
He then made it worse by name calling. Then got a private detectives in to try and win.
Is that Sad and Fail or Fail and Sad? His twitter account is just like Donalds to be honest. Both are up against it at the moment.
Both have their die hard supporters. Elon supporters now saying "Old news, lets move on"
Tesla might be better served with Tim Cook in charge, or Ren Zhengfei
jjwilde said:
hyphen said:
If Apple were struggling financially and so dropping their r&d spend, and only had a tiny percentage of the phone market, then YES!
But Tesla have a huge percentage of the EV market. What percentage did the E-Tron get Audi?King Canute
King Elon "Bring me my pedalo "
4 rabid twitter followers " We can't afford that due to the amount of debt "
King Elon "Bring me my lilo"
3 rabid twitter followers " We can't afford that due to the amount of debt "
King Elon "Bring me my armbands"
2 rabid twitter followers " Er, will one suffice my Lord?"
King Elon "Oh, very well, as long as it is not from Poundsavers"
1 slightly sad twitter follower " Er, I'm out of here, the Mercedes needs recharginging ...."
hyphen said:
Someone posted a top sales in Norway, e-tron outselling X and S.
People who want a large EV seem to be going for Audi or even a Jag, and those wanting a Tesla Badge/smaller ev, a 3
These are brand new cars compared to cars available for half a decade in case of the model S, so no real surprise there.People who want a large EV seem to be going for Audi or even a Jag, and those wanting a Tesla Badge/smaller ev, a 3
I can also imagine people cross shopping between a Q7 and an E-Tron.
In fact, I owned a Jaguar so I went to look at the I-Pace, which I then shortlisted against the Model S.
Tbh, I admired Musk at what he did with the car market and spaceX, but his twitter account is a complete turn off.
That said, aside from Ian Callum for design I have no idea nor do I care who's at the helm at the company I buy my stuff off and history shows that most people don't care.
Jobs was close to the biggest asshole on the planet, but Apple made good stuff. The VW Beetle was literally commissioned by AH himself, yet it became a symbol for the hippie movement.
I think the only defense (if any) that can be made here is that Jobs needed to be a perfectionist like he was, and Musk has to be a bit crazy to do what he does.
A good point is market value, TSLA is valued that high because of their FSD promises. Investors believe in Musk because, although in his own time, he usually delivers.
I'm a Tesla owner, but I don't own any stock.
Edit: I do believe that the company that can deliver on FSD is going to be the biggest thing ever. There have also been takeovers of much smaller companies for ridiculous amounts, just because of brand name and/or talent, of which Tesla has both in spades as well.
Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 9th October 13:59
Johnny Ive developed the products that made Apple great second time around - he’s left although I imagine on a healthy retainer but Apple are running out of ideas for the next big thing
Strudel (sp?) is stepping down from Tesla and he was the real brains behind the cars, think he’s on a retainer but that’s nowhere near the same as being at the helm. Musk isn’t the brains behind the engineering
I thought Tesla’s AP team had a high degree of churn too and had recently lost their leader and they’ve bought someone recently to give them some fresh blood?
Tesla and Musk used to be inextricably linked. I wonder if that’s starting to change.
Strudel (sp?) is stepping down from Tesla and he was the real brains behind the cars, think he’s on a retainer but that’s nowhere near the same as being at the helm. Musk isn’t the brains behind the engineering
I thought Tesla’s AP team had a high degree of churn too and had recently lost their leader and they’ve bought someone recently to give them some fresh blood?
Tesla and Musk used to be inextricably linked. I wonder if that’s starting to change.
Heres Johnny said:
Johnny Ive developed the products that made Apple great second time around - he’s left although I imagine on a healthy retainer but Apple are running out of ideas for the next big thing
As far as I know he's a designer, nothing more? Didn't think he was that involved in other development.I think Tesla is mainstream enough and half the owners I know don't really know who Musk is.
Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 9th October 20:00
ZesPak said:
Heres Johnny said:
Johnny Ive developed the products that made Apple great second time around - he’s left although I imagine on a healthy retainer but Apple are running out of ideas for the next big thing
As far as I know he's a designer, nothing more? Didn't think he was that involved in other development.I think Tesla is mainstream enough and half the owners I know don't really know who Musk is.
Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 9th October 20:00
ZesPak said:
Edit: I do believe that the company that can deliver on FSD is going to be the biggest thing ever.
Disappointingly v10 has bought limited AP advances, though I see in the US cars with AP2.0 hardware also have 'advanced summon', which seems to work just as badly as the AP3.0 cars.If Tesla is still using code that AP2.0 hardware can cope with than when the AP3.0 hardware is fully leveraged we *should* see a change.
Personally am surprised they are still working on AP code for AP 2/2.5 cars, I wonder if Tesla is trying to get all the features on the old Extended AP option to work on AP 2/2.5 cars so they can than avoid having to upgrade any ones whos not paid for FSD to AP 3.0 hardware.
AP now does seem to brake for corners which it didn't before, hopefully next 6-12montha some more developments will come.
gangzoom said:
Disappointingly v10 has bought limited AP advances, though I see in the US cars with AP2.0 hardware also have 'advanced summon', which seems to work just as badly as the AP3.0 cars.
If Tesla is still using code that AP2.0 hardware can cope with than when the AP3.0 hardware is fully leveraged we *should* see a change.
.
I don't believe it works that way - the advanced hardware doesn't unlock any secret sauce here, it just makes processing a bit more efficient and cuts their manufacturing costs a little. AP3.0 hardware doesn't make it possible to sense the surroundings that it's clear AP2.0 cannot sense - that's a limitation of the sensors on the car, not the processor that handles them.If Tesla is still using code that AP2.0 hardware can cope with than when the AP3.0 hardware is fully leveraged we *should* see a change.
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Tuna said:
that's a limitation of the sensors on the car, not the processor that handles them.
The sensors are fine, the cameras and USS sensors can easily 'see' a garage wall, its the dumb software that cannot make sense of the data thats been provided.The in car display now shows traffic coming the other way, but its 1 second slow and misses 50% of the traffic. That's not a problem with the camera thats a problem with the processing.
gangzoom said:
Tuna said:
that's a limitation of the sensors on the car, not the processor that handles them.
The sensors are fine, the cameras and USS sensors can easily 'see' a garage wall, its the dumb software that cannot make sense of the data thats been provided.The in car display now shows traffic coming the other way, but its 1 second slow and misses 50% of the traffic. That's not a problem with the camera thats a problem with the processing.
If we don’t allow disabled people whose eyes and ears work fine but they are unable to process the data they are gathering quickly enough or accurately enough why do we allow computers that are no different to drive?
gangzoom said:
The in car display now shows traffic coming the other way, but its 1 second slow and misses 50% of the traffic.
The v3 hardware might reduce 1 second to half a second (doubling the speed would be a significant achievement in hardware these days). The new hardware however will not fix missing 50% of the traffic.In the garage situation, either the software is capable of extrapolating that there is a garage wall to miss, or it isn't. When the car is just beginning to move, it has all the time in the world to figure out it's surroundings. Bigger better hardware isn't going to change that.(*)
(*) OK that's a gross simplification, sufficiently more powerful hardware can enable algorithms that simply cannot be run on existing silicon, but v3 vs v3 hardware is not giving that sort of a step change as far as I can tell.
k ups
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