How much Fossil Fuel to Travel 200 Miles in a Model S?
Discussion
I know there are some very clever people on this forum who might be able to answer this question.
I am only curious to know the answer, I liked my Model S very much over our time together.
Sitting in a traffic jam today looking at a "Zero Emissions" badge on the back of electric car, got me thinking about how some drivers think that their EV produces Zero Emissions!
Well I guess it does produce zero emissions from the tail pipe, the non- existent tailpipe.
So I tried to find factual study publishing where the electricity actually comes from in the UK
Very difficult to find out at the moment as the Government and the EV Green lobbyists seem to have have excellent PR and claim it comes from renewables whereas the good old coal and gas industries are hiding good and proper on line!
I gave up after 20 minutes, someone here might actually have dome some proper work on this.
From what I could glean, it seems that in the UK, the inputs for the electricity mix varies. At the moment it seems to be 50% gas + more for Coal, the rest nuclear, renewables and imported (a worse horror story in some places -especially China).
I know loads of talk is in the air about increasing the reliance on renewables. Great.
However, every KW that goes in seems to contain about 60% fossil fuel from source? Is that correct?
Not only that but 6-10% of the electricity produced is lost in distribution it would appear. That is alot of gas and coal burnt to make EV's work.
That must be wrong otherwise everyone wouldn't be so enthusiastic about them - would they?
So my question is- In the UK, How much fossil fuel is burnt to send a Model S 200 miles?- Would it be more that the 5 gallons I would burn in a Mercedes E220?
Finally, how much extra embodied energy is used in the production of an EV over the equivalent ICE car?
I would love to know the truth. It seems like a very complicated pair of questions though.
Sonemone must be able to put me right?
I am only curious to know the answer, I liked my Model S very much over our time together.
Sitting in a traffic jam today looking at a "Zero Emissions" badge on the back of electric car, got me thinking about how some drivers think that their EV produces Zero Emissions!
Well I guess it does produce zero emissions from the tail pipe, the non- existent tailpipe.
So I tried to find factual study publishing where the electricity actually comes from in the UK
Very difficult to find out at the moment as the Government and the EV Green lobbyists seem to have have excellent PR and claim it comes from renewables whereas the good old coal and gas industries are hiding good and proper on line!
I gave up after 20 minutes, someone here might actually have dome some proper work on this.
From what I could glean, it seems that in the UK, the inputs for the electricity mix varies. At the moment it seems to be 50% gas + more for Coal, the rest nuclear, renewables and imported (a worse horror story in some places -especially China).
I know loads of talk is in the air about increasing the reliance on renewables. Great.
However, every KW that goes in seems to contain about 60% fossil fuel from source? Is that correct?
Not only that but 6-10% of the electricity produced is lost in distribution it would appear. That is alot of gas and coal burnt to make EV's work.
That must be wrong otherwise everyone wouldn't be so enthusiastic about them - would they?
So my question is- In the UK, How much fossil fuel is burnt to send a Model S 200 miles?- Would it be more that the 5 gallons I would burn in a Mercedes E220?
Finally, how much extra embodied energy is used in the production of an EV over the equivalent ICE car?
I would love to know the truth. It seems like a very complicated pair of questions though.
Sonemone must be able to put me right?
Anyway,
to answer the question "How much fossil fuel is needed to travel 210 miles in a Tesla Model S" I have done my best to try and work it out.
The answer is 3.24 gallons of petrol.
The reason I picked 210 miles is that is the maximum average I got out of one over 140,000 miles.
Please fell free to criticise. Sources for data below. The data is all over the place.
My logic is as follows.
An 85kWh Tesla Model S charges to 80 kWh, 80kWh of electricity is used up over 210 miles.
16% of the energy in the home charging box is lost between the charger and the car battery. Therefore your 80kWh of electricity was actually 95.23 kWh.
8.2% of your 95.23 kWh was lost between your house and the power station in transmission and distribution. So your 95.23 kWh was actually 103.7 kWh at source.
UK power mix is 42% gas, 9% coal. The other components are clean.
Therefore of 103.7 kWh 43.5 kWh comes from gas.
Therefore 9.3 kWh comes from coal.
43.5 kWh of gas@.13kWh/cubic ft is 334 cu/ft if gas burnt.
9.3 kWh of coal@.88kWh/lb is 11.2 lbs of coal burnt.
146.3 cu/ft of gas is the equivalent energy density as 1 UK gallon of petrol.
334 cu/ft2 of gas @135,000 BTU/UK gallon is the energy equivalent of 2.3 UK gallons
11.2 lbs of coal burnt @123,800 BTU/gallon equivalent is 0.94 UK gallons
Therefore power stations have to burn the equivalent of 3.24 gallons of petrol for the driver to travel 210 miles in a Tesla Model S
Sources
Energy Loss between wall and battery
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/09/20180905-...
Converting Energy Density between Fuels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equi...
Energy Density of different Fuels
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=667&...
Grid Transmission Losses
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/144711/do...
Energy Density
https://www.generatorjoe.net/html/energy.html
Not to bad I suppose.
to answer the question "How much fossil fuel is needed to travel 210 miles in a Tesla Model S" I have done my best to try and work it out.
The answer is 3.24 gallons of petrol.
The reason I picked 210 miles is that is the maximum average I got out of one over 140,000 miles.
Please fell free to criticise. Sources for data below. The data is all over the place.
My logic is as follows.
An 85kWh Tesla Model S charges to 80 kWh, 80kWh of electricity is used up over 210 miles.
16% of the energy in the home charging box is lost between the charger and the car battery. Therefore your 80kWh of electricity was actually 95.23 kWh.
8.2% of your 95.23 kWh was lost between your house and the power station in transmission and distribution. So your 95.23 kWh was actually 103.7 kWh at source.
UK power mix is 42% gas, 9% coal. The other components are clean.
Therefore of 103.7 kWh 43.5 kWh comes from gas.
Therefore 9.3 kWh comes from coal.
43.5 kWh of gas@.13kWh/cubic ft is 334 cu/ft if gas burnt.
9.3 kWh of coal@.88kWh/lb is 11.2 lbs of coal burnt.
146.3 cu/ft of gas is the equivalent energy density as 1 UK gallon of petrol.
334 cu/ft2 of gas @135,000 BTU/UK gallon is the energy equivalent of 2.3 UK gallons
11.2 lbs of coal burnt @123,800 BTU/gallon equivalent is 0.94 UK gallons
Therefore power stations have to burn the equivalent of 3.24 gallons of petrol for the driver to travel 210 miles in a Tesla Model S
Sources
Energy Loss between wall and battery
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/09/20180905-...
Converting Energy Density between Fuels
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equi...
Energy Density of different Fuels
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=667&...
Grid Transmission Losses
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/144711/do...
Energy Density
https://www.generatorjoe.net/html/energy.html
Not to bad I suppose.
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