EVs... no one wants them!

[Ankh87]

Muzzer79 said:

Ankh87 said:

Muzzer79 said:

Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.

I think it's the fact that when you do stop, you can just stop any where for a break. You don't need to stop and take a break at a specific location. So if you are happy to drive 4 hours without stopping, then you can do.

You don't need to think that I must stop off at X location which could be actually off your route. You could just pull over on a B road layby, go for the splash behind the bush. Put rubbish in the bin. Carry on the journey in a matter of minutes. No need to wait another X amount of charge to be sure you can carry on your journey. No need to worry if you might be waiting for a charger or even if they are working.

The point isn't the practicalities of stopping

The point is that where are all these people going on these 400 mile journeys that they're doing so regularly as to necessitate a car that has that range?

I drive to locations as part of my job - 15-20k miles a year. My longest journey that I can recall - business or personal - is something like 125 miles each way, taking 2 - 2.5 hours each way.

I take the EV, which has the range for it but I give it a small (safety) top up when I get to the office, then I do my business and drive home.

I 100% understand that there isn't many people who are doing that sort of mileage. How I see it is if there's a range of 400 miles that's more than enough to go Birmingham to London a couple of times which isn't unreasonable as many people do that by train.
So if you do need to do that trip, you're not having to stress about having to either find a charger before you go home or charge up on the way home.
The 400 miles range is more than enough to that trip at a moments notice, knowing you'll be home that evening.


I would like to add that a lot of people are doing Staycations these days. Lots of people from the middle of England go to Cornwall or even go to Norfolk. There's also no guarantee that there's a charger you can use when you get there. So if you can get to your holiday destination without charging, then take your time on the way home. Most would be happy with that. Yes it's a pain having to charge up on the way home but it's a lesser cost than having to use a public charger 2-4 times which is another thing to factor in.

[740EVTORQUES]

The idea of being able to make a 400 mile journey at the drop of a hat is the ultimate straw man. Most people would gladly give that up in return for never having to stop to refuel doing their daily commute.

I did in fact one get caught out needing to suddenly make a longish journey unplanned. I had not charged the car so what to do?

Drove to the nearest fast DC charger 5 minutes away (ironically at the local
Porsche dealership) and charged for 20 minutes and then I was on my way.

No problem at all and the benefits in daily use vastly outweigh this possibility.

[biggbn]

AstonZagato said:

GT9 said:

TheBinarySheep said:

What I have issue with is the dismissive attitude towards EV's as a way to get the average person around.

'I like engines therefore everybody must also have an engine'.

This whole thing is about removing the undesirable characteristics (to most people) of owning an engine.
Allowing those who like engines to continuing enjoying them in a low key, low impact manner.
CO2, NOx, CO, vibration, noise, oil consumption, servicing, tens of tons of lifetime fuel, gearboxes, exhausts, fuel pumps.
These things only appeal to a small group of people.
And of course boat-towing hypermilers, let's not forget them.

I think that true petrolheads would want non-petrolheads to buy only EVs. It would get goverments/regulators off our backs and allow more ICE cars to be produce (and preserve petrol stocks).
Most drivers have no idea what happens under the bonnet. They just want to get from A-B. They actually want white goods (look at most ICE cars produced/sold - they are dull as ditchwater). EVs will suit most of them.

But there are many genuine enthusiasts who own Porsche or whatever on this thread and others who own, drive and love their EV. It is possible to be a car enthusiast and not have all your eggs in one propulsion basket....

[KingGary]

Muzzer79 said:

Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.

Meanwhile, all the EV drivers have child bladders which require them to stop every 50 miles for a pee and an hour’s recharge. Soon services will start offering “Executive” EV-only lounges with Burger King waitress service.

[LowTread]

KingGary said:

Muzzer79 said:

Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.

Meanwhile, all the EV drivers have child bladders which require them to stop every 50 miles for a pee and an hour’s recharge. Soon services will start offering “Executive” EV-only lounges with Burger King waitress service.

love this thread

[732NM]

Boxster5 said:

Anyone old enough might remember Izal toilet paper - now that was hateful stuff and it scratched more than the surface!
Hard unforgiving medicated stuff that we had in our infant & junior school.
Ironically still available as a retro item on EBay!

That stuff was like tracing paper, it just slid over the brown stuff.

[Boxster5]

732NM said:

Boxster5 said:

Anyone old enough might remember Izal toilet paper - now that was hateful stuff and it scratched more than the surface!
Hard unforgiving medicated stuff that we had in our infant & junior school.
Ironically still available as a retro item on EBay!

That stuff was like tracing paper, it just slid over the brown stuff.

It certainly wasn’t absorbent! Oh and don’t forget the bright pink carbolic soap that stripped a layer of skin off when you washed your hands. Times were hard……

[PSRG]

KingGary said:

Muzzer79 said:

Don't waste your breath

PH is full of people who drive for hours and hours, every day, without a break.

They all need cars that will do 400 or 500 miles because they're doing that regularly.

I'd love to know where all these people are going. They must have a hell of a commute.

Meanwhile, all the EV drivers have child bladders which require them to stop every 50 miles for a pee and an hour’s recharge. Soon services will start offering “Executive” EV-only lounges with Burger King waitress service.

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, my car is telling me that I have done 3,466 in April - an exceptionally high month for me admittedly. Twice as high as usual. That involved 2 stops at fast chargers - once for 7 minutes and one for 12. The second could have been 5 or 6, but I got a McDonald’s. No exec EV lounge though

The average trip durations is slightly misleading…I reckon trips were either 5 to 20 minutes, or 3 ish hours.

[survivalist]

740EVTORQUES said:

The idea of being able to make a 400 mile journey at the drop of a hat is the ultimate straw man. Most people would gladly give that up in return for never having to stop to refuel doing their daily commute.

I did in fact one get caught out needing to suddenly make a longish journey unplanned. I had not charged the car so what to do?

Drove to the nearest fast DC charger 5 minutes away (ironically at the local
Porsche dealership) and charged for 20 minutes and then I was on my way.

No problem at all and the benefits in daily use vastly outweigh this possibility.

Alll depends on what EV you have.

Sounds like yours can charge relativity quickly and has a reasonable range.

The majority of people will be comparing something like a Qashqai with something like that Honda that was recently available on a cheap lease.

Real world range will be poor and charging slow.

While it might be better day to day (assuming you can charge at home), it’ll be annoying on weekend trips, holidays etc.

People place big value on convenience and while some of it is exaggerated in the press, it’s still an issue for most people.

Plenty of UK holidays don’t have destination charging, which compounds the issue.

[ACCYSTAN]

cj2013 said:

But does a person really need to travel that far without a break? If it were the US, someone could make the argument for long distances without chargers or something (in the appalachia type areas), but the UK isn't a particularly big island.

Your missing the point

In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,

I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced

[tamore]

ACCYSTAN said:

Your missing the point

In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,

I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced

if you can only charge on public chargers and have nothing else to do while your car is charging, then that's fair.

[Evanivitch]

ACCYSTAN said:

Your missing the point

In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,

I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced

But if you're using the van within the range of a single charge every day, then charging overnight you avoid wasting time going to a petrol station. That's far better productivity. And most EVs have a scheduled or remote pre-heat in winter to defrost.

If you take the Royal Mail as an example, that's quite a significant difference in productivity.

[GT9]

ACCYSTAN said:

Your missing the point

In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,

I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet, but you could always not buy the EV now and wait until such inconveniences are a thing of the past.
Just an idea, mind.

[ACCYSTAN]

Ankh87 said:

I think it's the fact that when you do stop, you can just stop any where for a break. You don't need to stop and take a break at a specific location. So if you are happy to drive 4 hours without stopping, then you can do.

You don't need to think that I must stop off at X location which could be actually off your route. You could just pull over on a B road layby, go for the splash behind the bush. Put rubbish in the bin. Carry on the journey in a matter of minutes. No need to wait another X amount of charge to be sure you can carry on your journey. No need to worry if you might be waiting for a charger or even if they are working.

Exactly this

The idea of having to find a charger and waiting like a lemon for the car to get back to 80% charge is ludicrous

[SWoll]

ACCYSTAN said:

Your missing the point

In a diesel Berlingo I have to fill it up for 5 mins once every 500 miles
In a electric Berlingo I have to recharge it 3 times at close to 3 hours for the same usage,

I’m a big fan of productivity, not being inconvenienced

I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.

How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?

[ACCYSTAN]

GT9 said:

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this idea yet, but you could always not buy the EV now and wait until such inconveniences are a thing of the past.
Just an idea, mind.

Just to be clear,
I drive a diesel Berlingo van for work ,I want a petrol or electric Toyota Proace city verso (a rebadged Berlingo with 10 year warranty) as my personal vehicle.

Unfortunately there are no decent range MPV style electrics, Tesla have no plans to make one.
You can pay over £70k for a luxury MPV electric with over 200 miles range, but that’s way out of my price range

[ACCYSTAN]

SWoll said:

I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.

How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?

Show me an electric van that does 500 miles on a charge, infact show me an electric van that does 200 miles on a charge in the real world, the best one is meant to be the Maxus e deliver 9 which does 210 miles in the real world and why DPD have purchased a load of them.
Just a shame they are £63k plus VAT to buy!

[nickfrog]

DPD must think they are productive.

[tamore]

nickfrog said:

DPD must think they are productive.

they use spreadsheets to track their running costs and overall costs. they look very attractive on spreadsheets in comparison to legacy fleets,

[SWoll]

ACCYSTAN said:

SWoll said:

I spend about minute plugging in my EV at home to cover the same mileage as your diesel Berlingo. 30 seconds per charge, job done.

How long do you reckon that diesel stop takes you in comparison, as sounds very inconvenient and un-productive to me?

Show me an electric van that does 500 miles on a charge, infact show me an electric van that does 200 miles on a charge in the real world, the best one is meant to be the Maxus e deliver 9 which does 210 miles in the real world and why DPD have purchased a load of them.
Just a shame they are £63k plus VAT to buy!

There are no EV's that will do 500 miles on a charge as it's such a niche requirement and would require a hugely expensive 120kWh+ battery to be fitted.

Would something like an MG5 or Tesla Model Y not be acceptable as a personal vehicle if you have access to a work van?