EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
raspy said:
Focus and Fiesta were dropped principally due to declining sales, and they had been declining for a LONG time (well before EVs became more popular), as buyers went for crossover/SUV type things.
Yes the Fiesta's decline was fairly abrupt. I struggled to understand how the Corsa remained near the top of the sales chart, but the Fiesta fell from top spot to barely making the top 10 in 2022. I think Ford just failed to develop the Mk8 against the newer Corsa, which came with an EV option. I still think that a Fiesta EV would have had considerable appeal and Ford should've stuck with it. Seems mad to me that superminis are being abandoned at a time when roads are more congested than ever and parking spaces at a premium!greenarrow said:
raspy said:
Focus and Fiesta were dropped principally due to declining sales, and they had been declining for a LONG time (well before EVs became more popular), as buyers went for crossover/SUV type things.
Yes the Fiesta's decline was fairly abrupt. I struggled to understand how the Corsa remained near the top of the sales chart, but the Fiesta fell from top spot to barely making the top 10 in 2022. I think Ford just failed to develop the Mk8 against the newer Corsa, which came with an EV option. I still think that a Fiesta EV would have had considerable appeal and Ford should've stuck with it. Seems mad to me that superminis are being abandoned at a time when roads are more congested than ever and parking spaces at a premium!raspy said:
Muzzer79 said:
You think car manufacturers are just going to give up the billions they have invested and are investing in EV's?
Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
Focus and Fiesta were dropped principally due to declining sales, and they had been declining for a LONG time (well before EVs became more popular), as buyers went for crossover/SUV type things. Ford have last week announced that they're discontinuing the Focus, having already dropped the Fiesta. As a manufacturer; they will be all hybrid by 2026 and EV-only by 2030.
This is the 5th biggest car manufacturer in the world. Such decisions are not easily reversable as new models take years to come to market.
Everything in Ford's upcoming model programme will now be EV.
EV is happening whether you like it or not.
IMO they royally shot themselves in the foot long term. I'm not sure they had much of a choice mind but they effectively gave up on the segment.
Owners on PCP deals really don't have much of a choice when their current deal comes to an end, if they were in a Fiesta, wanted another Fiesta but one wasn't available and they didn't want a crossover/SUV...well they're going to jump ship to someone else and not likely come back to Ford again.
Equally, no EV version of the Fiesta (apparently some 15% of Corsa sales in 2021 were the Corsa-e) won't have helped them. Again if you wanted a small car EV (and not an crossover/SUV)...well Ford don't do one.
Finally, the Fiesta was old, sure it probably was ended before its time but that segment still sells well, just there were a lot of newer, better supermini offerings from other companies even before Ford did their best to sabotage their own sales.
I don't think it was much more than 15 or so years ago when Ford were selling nearly 500k Fiestas a year but numbers have just ranked ever since and I think the U.K. was almost the only big market and probably only because so many Brits still thought they were somehow British cars rather than German.
The massive decline appears to coincide with the tightening of mortgage lending and the enormous post 2009 credit bulge into the car market so maybe it's a victim of consumers suddenly being able to afford bigger and better like all the new small cars from BMW, Mercedes et al. Akin to those brands killing off Ford's larger vehicles when mass finance adoption meant no one needed a cheap Ford any more and everyone could have a more prestigious German car?
Maybe slightly ironic given that Ford is the company that gave the world PCP only to be killed off by it down the line?
The massive decline appears to coincide with the tightening of mortgage lending and the enormous post 2009 credit bulge into the car market so maybe it's a victim of consumers suddenly being able to afford bigger and better like all the new small cars from BMW, Mercedes et al. Akin to those brands killing off Ford's larger vehicles when mass finance adoption meant no one needed a cheap Ford any more and everyone could have a more prestigious German car?
Maybe slightly ironic given that Ford is the company that gave the world PCP only to be killed off by it down the line?
Ford presumably weren't making a fortune on the Fiesta. There would have been some financial reasons behind the decision.
However, taken in wider context it is quite remarkable how Ford have fallen from volume and favour in the UK - a market they dominated for decades.
Their market share is 6% this year - still significant but smaller than Kia. I wonder how many people expected Kia to be outselling Ford 15 or even 10 years ago.....(probably not many in Ford!).
However, taken in wider context it is quite remarkable how Ford have fallen from volume and favour in the UK - a market they dominated for decades.
Their market share is 6% this year - still significant but smaller than Kia. I wonder how many people expected Kia to be outselling Ford 15 or even 10 years ago.....(probably not many in Ford!).
Dave200 said:
Car companies tend not to do things that make them lose money they'd have otherwise made, short-term or long-term.
Well, no company sets out to lose money but plenty end up f
king up. The advantage car companies have is that when they lose money they can go to the local government where the factories are and blackmail them to hand over taxpayer money to cover the shortfall needed to meet the dividend by threatening to destroy the lives of a few thousand employees if the cash isn't handed over pronto. 
I genuinely suspect Honda were a bit surprised when they were told to FRO when they went begging for free money or they'd tin a load of their employees.
Being able to threaten the staff whenever you want some free cash does make staying profitable a more relaxing gig.
greenarrow said:
Yes the Fiesta's decline was fairly abrupt. I struggled to understand how the Corsa remained near the top of the sales chart, but the Fiesta fell from top spot to barely making the top 10 in 2022. I think Ford just failed to develop the Mk8 against the newer Corsa, which came with an EV option. I still think that a Fiesta EV would have had considerable appeal and Ford should've stuck with it. Seems mad to me that superminis are being abandoned at a time when roads are more congested than ever and parking spaces at a premium!
Ford had got done by the chip shortage and focused on Puma production instead because of the higher margins. The Fiesta was still hot property but Ford "knew better".Ford have just basically lost the plot really. Getting rid of the Fiesta nameplate was just stupid. It is like gold and didn't need marketing. It is also the entry point to future Ford ownership. Even today on my road there are plenty of "Ford Families" that most likely started with a Fiesta.
Now you have the Puma which is just a large turd overall and the Focus is all but finished. All of these people will most likely hop on over to Stellantis now.
BricktopST205 said:
Ford had got done by the chip shortage and focused on Puma production instead because of the higher margins. The Fiesta was still hot property but Ford "knew better".
Ford have just basically lost the plot really. Getting rid of the Fiesta nameplate was just stupid. It is like gold and didn't need marketing. It is also the entry point to future Ford ownership. Even today on my road there are plenty of "Ford Families" that most likely started with a Fiesta.
Now you have the Puma which is just a large turd overall and the Focus is all but finished. All of these people will most likely hop on over to Stellantis now.
I don't think it was selling though. Volumes tanked in Europe from about 2010. The image is just skewed when looked at from the U.K. where it remained pretty much the number one small car. But even in the U.K. sales were tanking from 2015 and it was only number 1 because there was lots of completion sharing the other sales. Ford have just basically lost the plot really. Getting rid of the Fiesta nameplate was just stupid. It is like gold and didn't need marketing. It is also the entry point to future Ford ownership. Even today on my road there are plenty of "Ford Families" that most likely started with a Fiesta.
Now you have the Puma which is just a large turd overall and the Focus is all but finished. All of these people will most likely hop on over to Stellantis now.
The model was clearly in rapid decline for the last 15 years and Ford could see very clearly there was no point in spending any money developing something fewer and fewer people were wanting.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 15th May 16:18
Ford have basically killed their young person's market getting rid of the Fiesta. Ford also know that a Fiesta sized car won't work with batteries that well hence why they've kept the Puma. What's the point in making a Fiesta with a tiny range that no one wants, when they can get a Puma or Focus.
That's what it comes down to.
That's what it comes down to.
Ankh87 said:
Ford have basically killed their young person's market getting rid of the Fiesta. Ford also know that a Fiesta sized car won't work with batteries that well hence why they've kept the Puma. What's the point in making a Fiesta with a tiny range that no one wants, when they can get a Puma or Focus.
That's what it comes down to.
Yet Stellantis with the Corsa, 208 and C3 seem to disagree - not to mention the forthcoming Frontera and Dacia with the Spring.That's what it comes down to.
BricktopST205 said:
greenarrow said:
Yes the Fiesta's decline was fairly abrupt. I struggled to understand how the Corsa remained near the top of the sales chart, but the Fiesta fell from top spot to barely making the top 10 in 2022. I think Ford just failed to develop the Mk8 against the newer Corsa, which came with an EV option. I still think that a Fiesta EV would have had considerable appeal and Ford should've stuck with it. Seems mad to me that superminis are being abandoned at a time when roads are more congested than ever and parking spaces at a premium!
Ford had got done by the chip shortage and focused on Puma production instead because of the higher margins. The Fiesta was still hot property but Ford "knew better".Ford have just basically lost the plot really. Getting rid of the Fiesta nameplate was just stupid. It is like gold and didn't need marketing. It is also the entry point to future Ford ownership. Even today on my road there are plenty of "Ford Families" that most likely started with a Fiesta.
Now you have the Puma which is just a large turd overall and the Focus is all but finished. All of these people will most likely hop on over to Stellantis now.
confused_buyer said:
Yet Stellantis with the Corsa, 208 and C3 seem to disagree - not to mention the forthcoming Frontera and Dacia with the Spring.
The Stellantis and French stuff seems to sell well all across Europe which the Fiesta wasn't. There's obviously demand for small cars but the margins must be pretty thin meaning volumes are critical and I would guess you go loss making below a pretty large number. Muzzer79 said:
BricktopST205 said:
greenarrow said:
Yes the Fiesta's decline was fairly abrupt. I struggled to understand how the Corsa remained near the top of the sales chart, but the Fiesta fell from top spot to barely making the top 10 in 2022. I think Ford just failed to develop the Mk8 against the newer Corsa, which came with an EV option. I still think that a Fiesta EV would have had considerable appeal and Ford should've stuck with it. Seems mad to me that superminis are being abandoned at a time when roads are more congested than ever and parking spaces at a premium!
Ford had got done by the chip shortage and focused on Puma production instead because of the higher margins. The Fiesta was still hot property but Ford "knew better".Ford have just basically lost the plot really. Getting rid of the Fiesta nameplate was just stupid. It is like gold and didn't need marketing. It is also the entry point to future Ford ownership. Even today on my road there are plenty of "Ford Families" that most likely started with a Fiesta.
Now you have the Puma which is just a large turd overall and the Focus is all but finished. All of these people will most likely hop on over to Stellantis now.
Fiesta was already dying on its arse when the Puma was introduced.
Muzzer79 said:
If only Ford would have the good sense to read PH and, specifically, take note of the sage advice from the armchair marketing and sales experts in this thread......
On the contrary I think Ford are far too big and ran badly that they cannot react quickly. It has been widely panned that getting rid of the Fiesta is a bad move. It is quite amazing how they can quickly things can unravel in just the space of 15 years when Ford were arguably at the top. I can see just like GM Ford withdrawing from Europe completely with the exception of their commercial vans where they are still king.
otolith said:
In 2019 pre COVID the Fiesta was only outsold by the polo and Clio in Europe and the Focus only outsold by the Golf. Perhaps the vehicle type was dying or simply people were not being able to afford new cars anymore?
BricktopST205 said:
In 2019 pre COVID the Fiesta was only outsold by the polo and Clio in Europe and the Focus only outsold by the Golf.
Perhaps the vehicle type was dying or simply people were not being able to afford new cars anymore?
The vehicle type was dying. Everyone wanted crossovers.Perhaps the vehicle type was dying or simply people were not being able to afford new cars anymore?
Basically, a re-run of what the hatchback did to the three box saloon. The Fiesta was where the Orion found itself.
otolith said:
The vehicle type was dying. Everyone wanted crossovers.
Basically, a re-run of what the hatchback did to the three box saloon. The Fiesta was where the Orion found itself.
As part of this I feel we are being pushed / tricked into larger and larger cars.Basically, a re-run of what the hatchback did to the three box saloon. The Fiesta was where the Orion found itself.
A few years ago the total sales of Fiesta/Corsa/Polo/Clio was a huge slice of the overall sales.
EVs are partly to blame, they seem to be BIG. Perhaps because of batteries.
Do we really want the likes of EV6, Ioniq 5 or 6, Ariya, all of which are over 4.6m long, and tall with it. Even the Puma is only 4.2m.
otolith said:
The vehicle type was dying. Everyone wanted crossovers.
Basically, a re-run of what the hatchback did to the three box saloon. The Fiesta was where the Orion found itself.
The biggest selling car in Europe last year was the model y at 250k. Even that is tiny compared to what numbers were pre COVID. The golf was selling 500k a year so it is not only the Fiesta that has seen a rapid decline. Basically, a re-run of what the hatchback did to the three box saloon. The Fiesta was where the Orion found itself.
I would also say the decline in Fiesta sales has more to do with cheap credit and people going for the larger more prestigious model as shown by huge golf sales during that period.
Since COVID interest rates have sky rocketed and car sales are tiny compared to what they were.
DonkeyApple said:
confused_buyer said:
Yet Stellantis with the Corsa, 208 and C3 seem to disagree - not to mention the forthcoming Frontera and Dacia with the Spring.
The Stellantis and French stuff seems to sell well all across Europe which the Fiesta wasn't. There's obviously demand for small cars but the margins must be pretty thin meaning volumes are critical and I would guess you go loss making below a pretty large number. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff