EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
GT9 said:
No it's not available to buy, 2025 is supposedly when we will see the AMG vision production car.
Expect a fatter Taycan rival, although the manufacturers are edging closer to something like the car I posted.
I appreciate that the transition we are seeing to EV is messy and uncomfortable for some.
I think quite a few of the posts on this thread are lamenting the fact we can't simply arrive at the destination without the journey.
That is why people like me are waiting for the others to do the messy part which is where I come in when it is finished. I am more annoyed at OEM's shovelling crap at stupid prices to get there rather than actual people buying them. Expect a fatter Taycan rival, although the manufacturers are edging closer to something like the car I posted.
I appreciate that the transition we are seeing to EV is messy and uncomfortable for some.
I think quite a few of the posts on this thread are lamenting the fact we can't simply arrive at the destination without the journey.
Evanivitch said:
And exports as most people know it ("made in the UK") are lagging.
We're excelling in exporting financial services and education. Who benefits from that? Not exactly job creation activities are they?
But incase you didn't read your own reference.
"But we should sound a note of caution here. The growth is evident in the services sector, while the goods sector lags, especially compared to this time last year. This concern was highlighted by the Bank of England (BoE) at its March 2024 meeting, when the bank also noted that demand for UK goods remained strong in the US, while weakening in China and the EU.
The export of vehicles and aerospace equipment from brands like Land Rover and Rolls-Royce have contributed extensively to the UK’s export figures. But the dominance of the service category is evident in the tourism and professional sectors such as higher education, architecture and insurance, and particularly in financial services. In the same March meeting, the BoE noted that service exports grew in value due primarily to prices, as volumes grew only slightly"
Export values are about the value of the products you provide to other nations. China is strong on physical goods the UK (and the USA) are strong on other products.We're excelling in exporting financial services and education. Who benefits from that? Not exactly job creation activities are they?
But incase you didn't read your own reference.
"But we should sound a note of caution here. The growth is evident in the services sector, while the goods sector lags, especially compared to this time last year. This concern was highlighted by the Bank of England (BoE) at its March 2024 meeting, when the bank also noted that demand for UK goods remained strong in the US, while weakening in China and the EU.
The export of vehicles and aerospace equipment from brands like Land Rover and Rolls-Royce have contributed extensively to the UK’s export figures. But the dominance of the service category is evident in the tourism and professional sectors such as higher education, architecture and insurance, and particularly in financial services. In the same March meeting, the BoE noted that service exports grew in value due primarily to prices, as volumes grew only slightly"
The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
survivalist said:
Very few cars are truly desirable enough for anyone to actually buy them. Most are financed or leased to unlock hidden manufacturer discounts, deposit contributions and inflated future values.
That why so many cars are bing handed back at the end of finance agreements - the finance companies are bearing the cost of depreciation, not the ‘owners’
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.That why so many cars are bing handed back at the end of finance agreements - the finance companies are bearing the cost of depreciation, not the ‘owners’
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Ian Geary said:
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies. It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
KingGary said:
Ian Geary said:
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies. It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
This is usually funded by manufacturers taking the hit and offering deals on certain cars. Lease companies themselves aren’t charities.
This depreciation-beating doesn’t apply to every lease, obviously, but the goal of sensible leasing is to have something that fits in to this bracket.
tamore said:
Tindersticks said:
Ford Granada 2.8i Ghia X isn't it?KingGary said:
tamore said:
I do like a Ford and my Dad had a 2.8 Granada. Now I drive mostly petrol V8s.KingGary said:
tamore said:
I do like a Ford and my Dad had a 2.8 Granada. Now I drive mostly petrol V8s.
Tigger2050 said:
Export values are about the value of the products you provide to other nations. China is strong on physical goods the UK (and the USA) are strong on other products.
The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
It's a tiny island in an appalling position off the coast of a peninsula to the Asian continent. And yet, its inhabitants luxuriate in an inflated standard of living that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the things they despise, fear and love to denigrate. The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
And f
k me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish. Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, s
te, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future. Well they can f
k off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers. 
Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat f
ks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping. As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
DonkeyApple said:
It's a tiny island in an appalling position off the coast of a peninsula to the Asian continent. And yet, its inhabitants luxuriate in an inflated standard of living that wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the things they despise, fear and love to denigrate.
And fk me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish.
Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, ste, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future.
Well they can fk off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers.
Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat fks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping.
As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
It's hilarious that you have written an entire post whinging about other people whinging. Only in Britain can this kind of nonsense happen. And f
k me, do idiots just love to keep banging on about how their life is so bad because other people in their country won't dig coal out of the ground or chop their fingers off in factories making rubbish. Is there a nation better set to profit and prosper from the 'climate' situation? It doesn't even matter whether it's real or not, no belief or understanding is needed other than the realisation that the U.K. dropped its filthy industry 40 years ago, managed to survive the disastrous unemployment and social turmoil that stems from such shifts and transition to an economy that is not only barely exposed to the carbon issue but positioned to benefit from it by the exporting of the higher end goods and expertise.
Why do people denigrate the U.K.? Because they're losers stuck not in their past but the past of other people long dead, that's how daft they are. 'We don't make anything anymore!' Is the battlecry of the provincial loser.
We make 4 billion ready meals a year for all the fat and daft people to guzzle. All make in factories by people who would otherwise be down a hole, with an owl. There are your traditional, no skill, minimum wage factory jobs. Making sandwiches, curries etc for people far too busy to make their own food.
And all those potato people get their money from one of the most successful services export hubs on the planet. The U.K. has managed to place itself in a role where despite the US winning most of the exchanges off London since the war, London can still take a clip from an enormous percentage of global money flows. The U.K. supplies legal and accounting expertise across the planet to businesses and we supply protection to those businesses and when they need capital we have the expertise to arrange that.
The people who denigrate the services industry of the U.K. and how it has managed to compete against larger nations and cheaper nations and how it has been instrumental in keeping the standard of living abnormally high for the U.K. are fools. Fools who always have the same bitter battle cry that we don't make anything any more despite the fact that they probably live, work and commute within a few miles of a post 1980s, low carbon, high margin, manufacturing facility.
What they really mean is that we don't exploit British people enough any more. We don't take the male population of entire towns and tell them they can't do anything with their life other than go underground and get lung disease and die young. That just as a mere function of where they happened to be born they would spend their shortened, s
te, third world, Victorian life underground. More importantly, they don't want the women having any freedom either. They must go back to being home keepers and raising diseased children who have no future. Well they can f
k off with their miserable, idiotic, third world rhetoric. Go back to the backward provincial hole they were spaffed out in and spend their days at the bar with all the other backward losers. Today the U.K. is an island where it no longer matters where someone was spaffed out, it's no longer the death sentence it was for hundreds of years. Someone can be born in the arse end of nowhere and not have to go and work in a hole but have a wide range of opportunities that their forefathers could never dream of having. They're even allowed in front office roles due to the destruction of the class system and we've made great strides so that skin colour, sexuality and other irrelevant things matter so much less.
And that is all thanks to those who created the UK's high end manufacturing industries and our enormous service industry. As well as all the lazy fat f
ks gorging on ready meals and spending every spare hour shopping. As for the Fiesta guff? It probably only lagged the European sales slump by 5 years due to so many British idiots thinking they were buying British. Even in this thread, on a car forum no less, more than one person has said this would force them into buying a German car, seemingly oblivious to having been driving German cars for years.
The Fiesta died because it lost against its competition. It went from hero to zero. Ford isn't some Socialist experiment but a capitalist based corporate entity. It lost. Who cares. No one but the shareholders should care. As for the U.K.? It was just another foreign import driving GBP out of the country so who cares. We want a more efficient import market where we get better goods in exchange for less GBp being sent and should be agnostic as to where these vehicles come from within reason. And we sure as hell don't need to be subsidising German manufacturers.
As for EVs, let the overseas manufacturers duke it out at their expense. We aren't builders of generic transport vehicles but importers so very obviously we want to pay less and get more and we categorically don't want to be subsidising overseas manufacturers to help them charge more.
And the great thing about the U.K. is that there is nothing to stop anyone from buying a 2023 Ford Fiesta and enjoying it for 20 years. It's just that people don't want to actually own and enjoy a Ford Fiesta they just want to whinge about it.
740EVTORQUES said:
I migrated from a series of petrol V8s and 911 to an EV. The EV is massively better, you really should try one, you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s no way I’d go backwards to a V8 now, it’s just inferior.
Nope. Sorry. That's mental. It's the inferiority of a stinky V8 that makes it superior.
The true benefit of the EV is that it makes it even easier to have a stinky, inferior V8 in the garage.
Let the EV do all the hard work, the mundane graft and chore travel and keep a stinky, inefficient, noisy, smelly, expensive petrol car for the fun stuff.
I just watched a YT video about a bike engines 2CV. Clearly inferior to any EV by any logical metric bar the only metric that is actually of any importance, stupid, indulgent, fun.
Dave200 said:
You're not coming across as very smart here, or you're just deliberately ignoring points you don't agree. I could lease an M340i or a model 3 long range for the same price today. As we've established, they do identical jobs in almost identical ways. Why is the Tesla a stupid price while the BMW isn't?
Sorry to break it to you but a model 3 isn't in the same category as a M340i. It is a cheap car akin to the Ford Mondeo. The fact it costs the same as a BMW M340i on a lease is just showing that. You are paying for the EV side of things. The base of the model 3 is Mondeo/Passat level not BMW. Sit in a Model 3 then a BMW M340iGassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff