EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
moktabe said:
You make some good points.
However, I just think it's sad that anyone feels the need for justification of anything they either buy or do in life.
Just get on with it, enjoy the choices made and b
ks to what anyone else thinks.
Some insecure people wear their choice of car like a badge of pride.However, I just think it's sad that anyone feels the need for justification of anything they either buy or do in life.
Just get on with it, enjoy the choices made and b
ks to what anyone else thinks.braddo said:
The other thing the anti-EV crowd keep forgetting is that the discussion is about mass adoption by the UK over the next 20-30 years.
It is not about forcing every single edge case PHer into an EV by next year.
The fact is that even today, EVs are suitable for millions and millions of UK households - this isn't about affordability, but suitability, i.e. many of those households might not get an EV until 10-20 years from now, but an EV would fit into their daily lives quite easily TODAY.
That won't stop insecure people from inventing reasons why they don't want one.It is not about forcing every single edge case PHer into an EV by next year.
The fact is that even today, EVs are suitable for millions and millions of UK households - this isn't about affordability, but suitability, i.e. many of those households might not get an EV until 10-20 years from now, but an EV would fit into their daily lives quite easily TODAY.
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Had my Leaf for just under a decade. It's on 76k miles. £70 per corner for Michelin tyres last time. Fronts last around 22k, rears about 30k.It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Anyone getting more than a few thousand miles from their tyres in any car is a 'woke, pussy, libtard who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' so how is the Telegraph squaring this with the whole EVs are for 'woke, pussy, libtards who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' when they've just written an article about how manly, powerful and wile agenda destroying they are?It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
And who reads the Telegraph in this century? Pretentious DailyMail readers who don't need the pictures of very young girls anymore because their tackle has stopped working?
Tyre wear is going to be greater due to the larger tyres and their heavier cars. That's not a great scientific breakthrough. All cars have been getting larger and larger and heavier and heavier as more consumers have been able and willing to borrow more money in order to fuel the insatiable human desire for bigger and better. And almost all national economic policies around the world have favoured the increasing of this spending.
There is also another amusing reason as to why tyre particulate quantities have recently appeared on the radar of the human consciousness which is that humans aren't very good at comprehending how percentages work. The percentage of tyre dust being measured in road side samples has been increasing rapidly over the last decade. This is horrifying and every one is going to die. Numbers going up like that are really bad. Or might it be that other numbers have been going down?
. Road side sampling shows that the levels of iron oxide in the waste has dumped over the last two decades. Brake dust has fallen due to tech advances and now the slow migration in urban environments to EV. Exhaust particulates have fallen as engines were made more efficient in their burning and this reduction has sped up since 2015 when people ended their insatiable demand for diesel. And here is the real kicker, there has been no credible or extensive research, to date, on the impact of tyre related pm2.5 on mammalian lungs. We've been studying combustion particulates and flyashes since the 60s. Same with toxic gasses but just like with the airborne pm of the Tube network there hasn't been the research and so we don't actually know the issue. With the Tube we already appreciate that the bulk of the pm2.5 is pollen and humans which the lungs can process quite harmlessly. We know that airborne tyre particulates are not a good shape for the alveolar and due to being a manufactured product there will be atoms of things that aren't good to have in the bloodstream above certain levels on their surface but we don't actually even know how much of the tyre wear becomes airborne even. Some really basic stuff that no one has yet collected the data on but we find ourselves with agenda driven media not letting that stand in the way.
The research that has been done so far is tyre wear content in soils and waterways. And we are starting to understand that tyres are a primary source of micro plastic pollution. We are also seeing the data that this is the bulk of tyre pollution, it's not airborne but heavy and goes straight into the system that ends up in waterways and soils.
As with most of these man made consumer pollution issues there is only one sane answer which is for people to consume less. We have people covering fewer miles per car but a large pet of this decline is a result of households increasing the number of cars that they have. Still doing a household annual mileage of 20k but it's now spread over 2-3 cars instead of 1-2. And by allowing unfettered lending against cars we have facilitated and empowered the human need for their objects to be ever larger. The most popular cars among those who cannot borrow money is the small car. The most popular car among those who can borrow money is the largest car the bank will allow them to have.
So there is only one solution to particulate pollution and that is to get consumers to produce fewer particles which means they must use smaller things so there are fewer particles to come off them and less mass to drive the creation of those particles. There is literally only one solution and that's to stop fuelling that basic and core human desire for consumption and bigger and better by disarming all the people doing so. Give a toddler a loaded gun and invariably things that are bad for society are going to happen. Chose to not weaponise toddlers and they aren't.
Deleverage the car market and the size and weight of the U.K. fleet will start to drop. The value of that fleet will also drop and with fewer high price vehicles involved in accidents then insurance costs will weaken. Smaller cars mean less congestion so faster journey times.
The true insanity of the lending is that almost all the borrowed money goes overseas. U.K. consumers are borrowing their future income and just hurling it into the sea in some drug crazed, mass lunacy. If these maniacs so want to go to a bank and pay huge sums to borrow their next year's income and then go and buy something they simply don't need then at least let's have these total nutters not throw that money into the sea but at the island they live on.
There's almost no downside to naturally reversing the size trend of cars in the U.K. and a raft of obvious positives.
Sadly, there will be a thicko Telegraph reader who has had to borrow £100k to have a massive foreign tank on their driveway because they aren't smart enough to earn the money to just buy it who has had it confirmed to them that Mrs Miggins next door down with her electric Korean thing is the problem.
Where's the downside to putting a non income related cap on debt secured against cars? It's easy enough to do and people would just naturally switch to less polluting options without any need to fanny about with taxes and subsidies.
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
I just had the 2 rear Michelins replaced on my Model 3 Long Range. They did 19k miles, on a car that can do 60 in just over 4 seconds. If I get 5k miles out of my Atom, I'm happy!It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
When I went to pay, the owner of the tyre place told me that EV tyres don't last as long, but didn't even bother to ask how many miles my tyres had done. He then proceeded to tell me that he read about 16 Teslas being frozen in Austria and running out of charge and having to be towed. I reckon he meant an article on GB News about Teslas freezing in America.
He probably watches Geoff buys cars too...
NDA said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tyre wear is going to be greater due to the larger tyres and their heavier cars.
Perhaps it is on some - my experience is that my 3LR tyres lasted just over 30,000 miles, longer than on most ICE cars I've owned. They cost the same to replace as 'normal' tyres too. DonkeyApple said:
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Anyone getting more than a few thousand miles from their tyres in any car is a 'woke, pussy, libtard who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' so how is the Telegraph squaring this with the whole EVs are for 'woke, pussy, libtards who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' when they've just written an article about how manly, powerful and wile agenda destroying they are?It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
And who reads the Telegraph in this century? Pretentious DailyMail readers who don't need the pictures of very young girls anymore because their tackle has stopped working?
Tyre wear is going to be greater due to the larger tyres and their heavier cars. That's not a great scientific breakthrough. All cars have been getting larger and larger and heavier and heavier as more consumers have been able and willing to borrow more money in order to fuel the insatiable human desire for bigger and better. And almost all national economic policies around the world have favoured the increasing of this spending.
There is also another amusing reason as to why tyre particulate quantities have recently appeared on the radar of the human consciousness which is that humans aren't very good at comprehending how percentages work. The percentage of tyre dust being measured in road side samples has been increasing rapidly over the last decade. This is horrifying and every one is going to die. Numbers going up like that are really bad. Or might it be that other numbers have been going down?
. Road side sampling shows that the levels of iron oxide in the waste has dumped over the last two decades. Brake dust has fallen due to tech advances and now the slow migration in urban environments to EV. Exhaust particulates have fallen as engines were made more efficient in their burning and this reduction has sped up since 2015 when people ended their insatiable demand for diesel. And here is the real kicker, there has been no credible or extensive research, to date, on the impact of tyre related pm2.5 on mammalian lungs. We've been studying combustion particulates and flyashes since the 60s. Same with toxic gasses but just like with the airborne pm of the Tube network there hasn't been the research and so we don't actually know the issue. With the Tube we already appreciate that the bulk of the pm2.5 is pollen and humans which the lungs can process quite harmlessly. We know that airborne tyre particulates are not a good shape for the alveolar and due to being a manufactured product there will be atoms of things that aren't good to have in the bloodstream above certain levels on their surface but we don't actually even know how much of the tyre wear becomes airborne even. Some really basic stuff that no one has yet collected the data on but we find ourselves with agenda driven media not letting that stand in the way.
The research that has been done so far is tyre wear content in soils and waterways. And we are starting to understand that tyres are a primary source of micro plastic pollution. We are also seeing the data that this is the bulk of tyre pollution, it's not airborne but heavy and goes straight into the system that ends up in waterways and soils.
As with most of these man made consumer pollution issues there is only one sane answer which is for people to consume less. We have people covering fewer miles per car but a large pet of this decline is a result of households increasing the number of cars that they have. Still doing a household annual mileage of 20k but it's now spread over 2-3 cars instead of 1-2. And by allowing unfettered lending against cars we have facilitated and empowered the human need for their objects to be ever larger. The most popular cars among those who cannot borrow money is the small car. The most popular car among those who can borrow money is the largest car the bank will allow them to have.
So there is only one solution to particulate pollution and that is to get consumers to produce fewer particles which means they must use smaller things so there are fewer particles to come off them and less mass to drive the creation of those particles. There is literally only one solution and that's to stop fuelling that basic and core human desire for consumption and bigger and better by disarming all the people doing so. Give a toddler a loaded gun and invariably things that are bad for society are going to happen. Chose to not weaponise toddlers and they aren't.
Deleverage the car market and the size and weight of the U.K. fleet will start to drop. The value of that fleet will also drop and with fewer high price vehicles involved in accidents then insurance costs will weaken. Smaller cars mean less congestion so faster journey times.
The true insanity of the lending is that almost all the borrowed money goes overseas. U.K. consumers are borrowing their future income and just hurling it into the sea in some drug crazed, mass lunacy. If these maniacs so want to go to a bank and pay huge sums to borrow their next year's income and then go and buy something they simply don't need then at least let's have these total nutters not throw that money into the sea but at the island they live on.
There's almost no downside to naturally reversing the size trend of cars in the U.K. and a raft of obvious positives.
Sadly, there will be a thicko Telegraph reader who has had to borrow £100k to have a massive foreign tank on their driveway because they aren't smart enough to earn the money to just buy it who has had it confirmed to them that Mrs Miggins next door down with her electric Korean thing is the problem.
Where's the downside to putting a non income related cap on debt secured against cars? It's easy enough to do and people would just naturally switch to less polluting options without any need to fanny about with taxes and subsidies.
FiF said:
DonkeyApple said:
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Anyone getting more than a few thousand miles from their tyres in any car is a 'woke, pussy, libtard who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' so how is the Telegraph squaring this with the whole EVs are for 'woke, pussy, libtards who want to bum your your dog while speaking in foreign tongues to you' when they've just written an article about how manly, powerful and wile agenda destroying they are?It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
And who reads the Telegraph in this century? Pretentious DailyMail readers who don't need the pictures of very young girls anymore because their tackle has stopped working?
Tyre wear is going to be greater due to the larger tyres and their heavier cars. That's not a great scientific breakthrough. All cars have been getting larger and larger and heavier and heavier as more consumers have been able and willing to borrow more money in order to fuel the insatiable human desire for bigger and better. And almost all national economic policies around the world have favoured the increasing of this spending.
There is also another amusing reason as to why tyre particulate quantities have recently appeared on the radar of the human consciousness which is that humans aren't very good at comprehending how percentages work. The percentage of tyre dust being measured in road side samples has been increasing rapidly over the last decade. This is horrifying and every one is going to die. Numbers going up like that are really bad. Or might it be that other numbers have been going down?
. Road side sampling shows that the levels of iron oxide in the waste has dumped over the last two decades. Brake dust has fallen due to tech advances and now the slow migration in urban environments to EV. Exhaust particulates have fallen as engines were made more efficient in their burning and this reduction has sped up since 2015 when people ended their insatiable demand for diesel. And here is the real kicker, there has been no credible or extensive research, to date, on the impact of tyre related pm2.5 on mammalian lungs. We've been studying combustion particulates and flyashes since the 60s. Same with toxic gasses but just like with the airborne pm of the Tube network there hasn't been the research and so we don't actually know the issue. With the Tube we already appreciate that the bulk of the pm2.5 is pollen and humans which the lungs can process quite harmlessly. We know that airborne tyre particulates are not a good shape for the alveolar and due to being a manufactured product there will be atoms of things that aren't good to have in the bloodstream above certain levels on their surface but we don't actually even know how much of the tyre wear becomes airborne even. Some really basic stuff that no one has yet collected the data on but we find ourselves with agenda driven media not letting that stand in the way.
The research that has been done so far is tyre wear content in soils and waterways. And we are starting to understand that tyres are a primary source of micro plastic pollution. We are also seeing the data that this is the bulk of tyre pollution, it's not airborne but heavy and goes straight into the system that ends up in waterways and soils.
As with most of these man made consumer pollution issues there is only one sane answer which is for people to consume less. We have people covering fewer miles per car but a large pet of this decline is a result of households increasing the number of cars that they have. Still doing a household annual mileage of 20k but it's now spread over 2-3 cars instead of 1-2. And by allowing unfettered lending against cars we have facilitated and empowered the human need for their objects to be ever larger. The most popular cars among those who cannot borrow money is the small car. The most popular car among those who can borrow money is the largest car the bank will allow them to have.
So there is only one solution to particulate pollution and that is to get consumers to produce fewer particles which means they must use smaller things so there are fewer particles to come off them and less mass to drive the creation of those particles. There is literally only one solution and that's to stop fuelling that basic and core human desire for consumption and bigger and better by disarming all the people doing so. Give a toddler a loaded gun and invariably things that are bad for society are going to happen. Chose to not weaponise toddlers and they aren't.
Deleverage the car market and the size and weight of the U.K. fleet will start to drop. The value of that fleet will also drop and with fewer high price vehicles involved in accidents then insurance costs will weaken. Smaller cars mean less congestion so faster journey times.
The true insanity of the lending is that almost all the borrowed money goes overseas. U.K. consumers are borrowing their future income and just hurling it into the sea in some drug crazed, mass lunacy. If these maniacs so want to go to a bank and pay huge sums to borrow their next year's income and then go and buy something they simply don't need then at least let's have these total nutters not throw that money into the sea but at the island they live on.
There's almost no downside to naturally reversing the size trend of cars in the U.K. and a raft of obvious positives.
Sadly, there will be a thicko Telegraph reader who has had to borrow £100k to have a massive foreign tank on their driveway because they aren't smart enough to earn the money to just buy it who has had it confirmed to them that Mrs Miggins next door down with her electric Korean thing is the problem.
Where's the downside to putting a non income related cap on debt secured against cars? It's easy enough to do and people would just naturally switch to less polluting options without any need to fanny about with taxes and subsidies.
Anyone know how the sales of the RR Spectre have gone?
A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
Saweep said:
Anyone know how the sales of the RR Spectre have gone?
A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
I'd imagine that a chunk of sales were supposed to come from China but they're having a bit of a consumer crunch at the moment which probably doesn't help. With petrol still being cheap in the US and ME then it might be a slow sell at the very top end? A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
DonkeyApple said:
Saweep said:
Anyone know how the sales of the RR Spectre have gone?
A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
I'd imagine that a chunk of sales were supposed to come from China but they're having a bit of a consumer crunch at the moment which probably doesn't help. With petrol still being cheap in the US and ME then it might be a slow sell at the very top end? A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
They're a very striking looking car that although not my cup of tea, I can see why plenty of folks would want one.
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Eek, I’d better throw mine away sharpish as I should be half way through the third set by now. It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
19,000 miles on the first set so far and still 6mm on the front and just over 4mm on the rears.
Saweep said:
DonkeyApple said:
Saweep said:
Anyone know how the sales of the RR Spectre have gone?
A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
I'd imagine that a chunk of sales were supposed to come from China but they're having a bit of a consumer crunch at the moment which probably doesn't help. With petrol still being cheap in the US and ME then it might be a slow sell at the very top end? A year or so ago, I'm sure they were apparently all sold out for years, but brand new ones keep appearing on AT and dealer websites.
This indicates to me that the completed purchases haven't materialised by some way...Ferrari would rather burn any new unsold cars than advertise their availability to the proles.
Bentley delaying their EV coupe, again, makes me think that the RR hasn't been the success initially hoped for.
They're a very striking looking car that although not my cup of tea, I can see why plenty of folks would want one.
Why they would they bother with an engine option with so few years left to go is beyond me.
D4rez said:
It’s the perfect powertrain for a Rolls Royce customer. Low mileage users, quiet and powerful, sustainable…. I’m sure there are flippers and demo spec cars for sale by now.
Why they would they bother with an engine option with so few years left to go is beyond me.
Yeah, only 11 years 😂Why they would they bother with an engine option with so few years left to go is beyond me.
EVLATECOMER said:
D4rez said:
It’s the perfect powertrain for a Rolls Royce customer. Low mileage users, quiet and powerful, sustainable…. I’m sure there are flippers and demo spec cars for sale by now.
Why they would they bother with an engine option with so few years left to go is beyond me.
Yeah, only 11 years ??Why they would they bother with an engine option with so few years left to go is beyond me.
Europe works out about the same, US a tiny bit further behind but not much
plfrench said:
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Eek, I’d better throw mine away sharpish as I should be half way through the third set by now. It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
19,000 miles on the first set so far and still 6mm on the front and just over 4mm on the rears.
My average economy is 2.8 m/ kWh because I use GT mode frequently
It can’t be true ‘cos the Telegraph says it ain’t so!
Dave200 said:
Some insecure people wear their choice of car like a badge of pride.
Dave200 said:
That won't stop insecure people from inventing reasons why they don't want one.
I find it’s normally the insecure people who accuse others of being insecure. 
Anyway, it comes down to personal choice and some of us just don’t want an EV yet. This thread is dominated by people wanting to save money, the main reason for driving one, and for many of us, it’s not a priority.I probably will get one one day, but only when the technology is a bit better.
Turtle Shed said:
NDA said:
An article in the Telegraph this morning suggesting that EV tyres only last 7,500 miles and they're significantly more expensive to replace. The comments full of "EV fanatics ignore science" etc.
It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Had my Leaf for just under a decade. It's on 76k miles. £70 per corner for Michelin tyres last time. Fronts last around 22k, rears about 30k.It's like running in treacle sometimes, so much misinformation being peddled by supposedly serious news outlets.
Saweep said:
It's a shame they didn't engineer it for both powertrains; I'm sure that must have been possible.
They're a very striking looking car that although not my cup of tea, I can see why plenty of folks would want one.
I've not followed the product at all bar seeing the ThrottleHouse video. They're a very striking looking car that although not my cup of tea, I can see why plenty of folks would want one.
My wild guess is that as it's a BMW product and their mainstream stuff currently shares powertrains for sensible cost sharing that they saw with RR there was the margin to do a pure EV model which could then filter into the 7 series and SUVs later? Just guessing.
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