EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Fox- said:
DonkeyApple said:
How many new cars do you think we actually buy each year in the U.K. and ow many cars do you think there are in total? I think you've got your number very badly skewed to take the view that you have.
What number, I've not posted one other than that 38% of new car sales in 2027 must be electric.We're talking about the purchase of new cars after all.
740EVTORQUES said:
How many people have home charging for their petrol cars at present?
Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
My question has been and always has been why? Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
Why should people have to change their mindset or how they live? If people had a choice EV's would have never even got off the ground because outside of a few niche things they are worse than their ICE siblings at doing the basic job of getting from A to B.
Fast forward 10-20 years from now and the vast majority of people are driving EV's the cost is exactly the same because all tax and duty that used to be on ICE cars has now been transferred onto EV's and called "weight damage tax" or something equally silly.
What ever green you can argue that changing to EV's has given has been totally wiped out by the fact the world population has grown by 1 billion more people in that time frame so "climate change" is actually even worse than it is now. What we have in the end is a mode of transport that isn't really any different to what we have now and is also only really viable in western societies. Costs the same to run and has had millions if not billions of tax payers money poured into it that could have gone into more useful things like education and services.
For me it seems a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist and with the country slowly falling apart a complete waste of money.
romft123 said:
740EVTORQUES said:
How many people have home ‘charging’ for their petrol cars at present?
Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
Good luck with that here!Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 23 May 15:34
otolith said:
BricktopST205 said:
My question has been and always has been why?
You know why, you just don't think we should try to do anything about it.djc206 said:
That and urban air quality and noise pollution. I’m quite looking forward to cities being nice quiet places with clean air. I love the sound of a V8 and I’m still considering buying one last one but they’re fairly anti social for a number of reasons.
Urban air pollution is largely being dealt with by banning cars full stop. Places in London are basically no different to parts of the countryside now if you test the air quality. Also road noise takes over engine noise at quite a low speed <20mph in a lot of cases. Unless it some exotica or some chav with a bake bean tin exhaust. The myth of EV's being silent is exactly that. The real reason governments in the West wanted us to change to EV's was to reduce the dominance of Asian oil. What they will have done once all the dust is settled is hand over the entire car industry to China in the process. Leaving millions of people jobless due to redundant jobs and economies in tatters.
Luckily for the UK we based our economy on services which was a smart move because in reality manufacturing was never the future as it has always made sense to use developing nations for that and import it.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Thursday 23 May 16:51
Fox- said:
DonkeyApple said:
38% of what?
New car sales?Unless you plan to massively increase volume then it's going to reduce the availability of petrol cars in order to achieve it isn't it?
Percentages have no meaning, no worth without the physical number they pertain to.
Once you have an actually clarity of what 38% means that figure can then be contrasted to other figures such as the total U.K. fleet size. One can then start to consider whether the switch to EV could increase the supply of ICE to the segment that is needing or wishing to buy ICE. One can also start considering what that segment's relevance is to the upper end of the new car market and whether it has any at all?
irc said:
Because home charging for EVs is a fraction of the price of public charging.
Petrol is also regressive given that the lower the income of the driver the more they tend to spend on petrol. Now, if nothing were to change and let's say in 20 years time the cost differential between domestic charging and remote charging has remained (which it won't but for this exercise we will state this is the case), what's actually important is the differential between the cost of this remote electricity and the cost of petrol. At present, even this more expensive form of charging is cheaper than petrol so they would be better off in most cases.
Fox- said:
New car sales?
Unless you plan to massively increase volume then it's going to reduce the availability of petrol cars in order to achieve it isn't it?
Where does your concern arise from, are you a serial new car buyer worried about not getting access to the latest petrol cars?Unless you plan to massively increase volume then it's going to reduce the availability of petrol cars in order to achieve it isn't it?
Very simply, there are about 19 million petrol cars in the UK today.
These are still being replaced at pretty much the same rate as they are expiring.
EVs are replacing end of life diesels, not directly of course, but in absolute terms.
That pattern is unlikely to change much over the next 10 years.
So you are still going to be able to choose from tens of millions of petrol cars.
Why not sit back, relax and let it play out?
Who knows, the BMW EV of 2035 that you are fearful of now might actually be something seriously tasty.
There will also be some elasticity in how long second-hand petrol cars will remain in circulation, and I expect that the average life will extend a bit to overcome the shortfall in new petrol car sales that we are likely to see from some manufacturers who are struggling to meet their ZEV mandate numbers, BMW not being one of them TBH.
irc said:
740EVTORQUES said:
How many people have home ‘charging’ for their petrol cars at present?
Why should electric cars be any different?
Because home charging for EVs is a fraction of the price of public charging.Why should electric cars be any different?
perceived inconvenience of waiting times for charging will soon be a thing of the past, likewise range from a charge. once that is overcome, charging will be exactly like re-fuelling ICE. forecourt with big machines that make your vehicle go for the next 300+ miles in under 10 mins.
740EVTORQUES said:
How many people have home ‘charging’ for their petrol cars at present?
Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
A superior product mostly sells itself and doesn't need pushy re-education campaigns. Most mainstream manufacturers and governments have already spent many billions trying (and failing) to accomplish that. Why should electric cars be any different?
Its more about perception, education and a change of mindset.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 23 May 15:34
When smartphones came in, people adopted them because they were better than the alternative available at the time and didn't require ever shifting threats of complete bans
BricktopST205 said:
djc206 said:
That and urban air quality and noise pollution. I’m quite looking forward to cities being nice quiet places with clean air. I love the sound of a V8 and I’m still considering buying one last one but they’re fairly anti social for a number of reasons.
Urban air pollution is largely being dealt with by banning cars full stop. Places in London are basically no different to parts of the countryside now if you test the air quality. Also road noise takes over engine noise at quite a low speed <20mph in a lot of cases. Unless it some exotica or some chav with a bake bean tin exhaust. The myth of EV's being silent is exactly that. The real reason governments in the West wanted us to change to EV's was to reduce the dominance of Asian oil. What they will have done once all the dust is settled is hand over the entire car industry to China in the process. Leaving millions of people jobless due to redundant jobs and economies in tatters.
Luckily for the UK we based our economy on services which was a smart move because in reality manufacturing was never the future as it has always made sense to use developing nations for that and import it.
Edited by BricktopST205 on Thursday 23 May 16:51
Millions of people jobless? Where?
PinkHouse said:
A superior product mostly sells itself and doesn't need pushy re-education campaigns. Most mainstream manufacturers and governments have already spent many billions trying (and failing) to accomplish that.
When smartphones came in, people adopted them because they were better than the alternative available at the time and didn't require ever shifting threats of complete bans
Not correct. You're thinking of the mobile phones only back to the point in time when you could first afford one. But the early mobile phones of the 80s and even well into the 90s, were strictly not for the less affluent but in fact only available to the most affluent and they were sWhen smartphones came in, people adopted them because they were better than the alternative available at the time and didn't require ever shifting threats of complete bans
t. These early over payers of crap phones are the people that created the market and the product that everyone else has today and is superior to a landline. Ask most people over 60 when they bought their first mobile phone and at best they will say the mid to late 90s. That's years after the product first appeared. And even then, many of those people had to have their mobile phone physically attached to an entire motorcar for it to work. Now, those who had really early mobile phones will all tell you the same things which is that they were s
t, the networks were st, the batteries were st, they cost far more than most could ever dream of spending. And yet, here we are 25+ years later and homeless people have mobile phones. The unemployed, kids, the bankrupt all have mobile phones. And the networks they all rely upon as well as the products were created on the back of the initial users back when the product was crap and overpriced and not at all aimed at every day folk.
So here we are with EVs. Far superior to early mobile phones but with the same type of people saying they'll never catch on and are too expensive. We need to face the reality that these people are the EV zealots of the future.
The market switch is top down. No one is being forced to use an EV. They are up for sale to people with the excess money to piss away. Sure there will be skint mugs using them as a tool to feel they're in with the folk who have more than them but for the most part it is nothing more than people with the means looking at the product and calculating that for what they need it for it's better than an ICE.
In ten years time there will be more of those people. In 20 years time pretty much everyone will be wanting to ditch their crap ICE turd box for the superior EV that everyone else in their street has. There will be a tipping point where just like mobile phones, most people can finally afford one and most people will desperately want one and the dude who claims he doesn't have one will be looked at like a weirdo.
BricktopST205 said:
My question has been and always has been why?
Why should people have to change their mindset or how they live?
Erm, because of climate change? You may not have heard, but the scientific community reached a consensus a few years back that man-made climate change was going to be fairly catastrophic for humanity. Politicians and car manufacturers then decided that it wasn't unreasonable to try to avert that and switching to a slightly different form of transport propulsion seemed like a relatively easy way to so so. Heaven forbid that you might have to change your mindset though.Why should people have to change their mindset or how they live?
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