EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
greenarrow said:
What do people think can be done to encourage private sales?
They just need to find the price where private buyers are willing to transact. The clues are in the 3 year used values. No one needs an EV. No one has to buy an EV. No one has to have an EV. But the companies that want to sell ICE cars have no choice but to sell x% of EVs.
That is about as good a definition of a buyers market as we are ever likely to see.
The reality is that the consumer at this point is king and the vendors are screwed. If they want to keep selling ICE they need to find a way to incentivise consumers who have no need or use for their product to buy it.
And if they were to ask any retailer how you do that without getting a celebrity to flash their tits then the answer is price. But they know that which is why they've come out saying idiotic things like they're going to increase the price of their ICE cars to make their EVs look cheaper. Meanwhile, even creepy Musk is just dropping prices when he needs some buyers because even super weird dude understands how it works.
MightyBadger said:
740EVTORQUES said:
But I also acknowledge that EVs do a lot of things (in my opinion, based on real world experience, most things in fact) much better than ICE.
They might be better for your situation and preferences, but not everyone.But for quite a lot of people for their everyday, boring, sensible car, an EV would be perfectly ok. It might even be preferable if they like the smooth drive, or the quietness, or the lack of servicing, or they have offstreet parking and can significantly lower their running costs.
Only that message isn't getting through to people because the mainstream and social media has it in for EVs.
For many people they probably don't care what fuels their car. They just pick the right coloured pump at the garage. For them the transition would be incredibly easy, but that message isn't getting through. They just see what they read on facebook, or in the Telegraph.
It's a shame. It's a situation where the lowest common denominator in society is ruining things for the rest of us. Fake news. Alternative facts. It's all just bulls
t and i'm sick of it TBH. We're so partisan.Chris Peacock said:
KingGary said:
When they can do 400 miles on a single charge, can tow 3 tonnes, and you can pick one up for about £30k, I’ll consider one.
Thank goodness for that, I thought your posts were serious for a while there. DonkeyApple said:
Indeed. Personally, I don't buy into the 'I need to travel 400 miles' but actually think the issue currently is the 100 mile out and back in a day journeys as these are what are common and destination charging hasn't yet developed sufficiently to make that a no brainer.
This ^^^I do this sort of trip fairly often: 100+ miles to somewhere; some driving about; return. Also I prefer to keep a bit of range in hand, just in case. It would seem strange to stop on such short runs for a "volt & bolt" but I'm sure I'd get used to it if/when I have to.
DonkeyApple said:
Pistonheadsdicoverer said:
And then there's V2G. Can't wait for more car makers to embrace that as it sounds like a no-brainer to me.
Hell, Octopus could even help with buying EV cars if they wanted to.
https://octopus.energy/power-pack/
A million 50Kwh EVs = 50Gwh capacity
My general view re V2G is the G can fHell, Octopus could even help with buying EV cars if they wanted to.
https://octopus.energy/power-pack/
A million 50Kwh EVs = 50Gwh capacity
k itself of it wants to solve its storage cost problem by degrading a battery on my driveway. 
V2H is more interesting
There is actually a big issue with V2G which is that the average person will genuinely believe that The Man is stealing their electrons. And of course, given the nature of utility companies that will actually be the case. Lord knows why so many people have convinced themselves that Octupis is their friend just because it gives them a little sniff on the action.
There is also the issue that few batteries in driveways are owned by the householder. They're owned by the lender and the lender has priced their financing cost around the percie ed value and state of their battery when the leaseholder hands it back. If you were the owner of that battery then wouldn't you want any of the action being offered by a utility firm to save them from having to buy their own batteries?
For V2G are any of the existing chargers bi-directional? I suspect very few, if any. So anyone wanting to run V2G will have to replace theirs with a suitable unit. It would be interesting to see a payback calculation.
Mikehig said:
DonkeyApple said:
Indeed. Personally, I don't buy into the 'I need to travel 400 miles' but actually think the issue currently is the 100 mile out and back in a day journeys as these are what are common and destination charging hasn't yet developed sufficiently to make that a no brainer.
This ^^^I do this sort of trip fairly often: 100+ miles to somewhere; some driving about; return. Also I prefer to keep a bit of range in hand, just in case. It would seem strange to stop on such short runs for a "volt & bolt" but I'm sure I'd get used to it if/when I have to.
DonkeyApple said:
KingGary said:
Perfectly serious, this is my criteria for choosing my next car, as it’s what my current car is used for and does perfectly well.
Then all you need to do wait a bit longer than others will have to. KingGary said:
Agreed. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not anti EV, just a skeptic. I’m sure they work for lots of people, but they aren’t yet the default choice and they have limitations which you, yourself have mentioned. I think there will be a breakthrough in battery technology in the next few years which will mean there’s no need for public chargers, and I’m sure the government will rethink its tax policy too to make them more expensive to run.
You're living in a fantasy land if you think that will ever be the case, and when you've posted silly stuff like below in other threads your claim to only being an EV sceptic doesn't ring true eitherKingGary said:
nickfrog said:
BricktopST205 said:
Trolling evangelists is fun though. They are so easily triggered.
Are they? Who is an evangelist ? And who is triggered?That's what it's really about, isn't it? At least you're honest, I'll give you that.
KingGary said:
DonkeyApple said:
KingGary said:
Perfectly serious, this is my criteria for choosing my next car, as it’s what my current car is used for and does perfectly well.
Then all you need to do wait a bit longer than others will have to. The other aspect to consider is that for the smaller number of households without offstreet parking, it's not the range that is the hurdle just the cost of the vehicle and the cost and location of the charge. People will simply adapt around the range as will the infrastructure.
The small number who need to tow are quite likely to have private parking which covers off 95% of their usage needs and when towing whatever object they have they'll just have to stop to charge more often but they'll really be among the last people to switch.
Leicesterdave said:
So am I.... People are too scared to buy them at the moment due to energy prices apparently.
Personally I think the media killed EV desirability over Christmas.
Not so much to do with the cost of charging.Personally I think the media killed EV desirability over Christmas.
It is more than anything the (ir)reputability of EV's.
They simply belong in the junkyard, any and every mechanic, dealer and any other person that knows about cars I speak to, are always cheesed off with one thing, - EV's.
They are worth used tissue paper.
DonkeyApple said:
greenarrow said:
What do people think can be done to encourage private sales?
They just need to find the price where private buyers are willing to transact. The clues are in the 3 year used values. No one needs an EV. No one has to buy an EV. No one has to have an EV. But the companies that want to sell ICE cars have no choice but to sell x% of EVs.
That is about as good a definition of a buyers market as we are ever likely to see.
The reality is that the consumer at this point is king and the vendors are screwed. If they want to keep selling ICE they need to find a way to incentivise consumers who have no need or use for their product to buy it.
And if they were to ask any retailer how you do that without getting a celebrity to flash their tits then the answer is price. But they know that which is why they've come out saying idiotic things like they're going to increase the price of their ICE cars to make their EVs look cheaper. Meanwhile, even creepy Musk is just dropping prices when he needs some buyers because even super weird dude understands how it works.
Perhaps an example will help. When most people change their car, they don't drop £60K or more on it. They typically buy a car under £10K and if it's for normal family duties they want the nicest thing they can get for a reasonable amount of money. This sort of thing:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405260...
They don't want or need finance. They just want something reliable and with a good spec to last for the next five years or so. Many more will spend a lot less than £10K. A lot of choices will have been expensive cars new.
As soon as you can buy the EV equivalent of the Merc - not a bloody Leaf or something similarly dull - then people will buy them.
It will just take time.
Edited by Unreal on Tuesday 28th May 18:27
SWoll said:
KingGary said:
Agreed. Contrary to popular belief, I’m not anti EV, just a skeptic. I’m sure they work for lots of people, but they aren’t yet the default choice and they have limitations which you, yourself have mentioned. I think there will be a breakthrough in battery technology in the next few years which will mean there’s no need for public chargers, and I’m sure the government will rethink its tax policy too to make them more expensive to run.
You're living in a fantasy land if you think that will ever be the case, and when you've posted silly stuff like below in other threads your claim to only being an EV sceptic doesn't ring true eitherKingGary said:
Jamescrs said:
I'd agree qith that, the lines of people queuing for public charging points at motorway services will have had abig impact on anyone looking to buy imminently that may have been on the fence.
accept that no-ones ever "queuing" for the charging points (unlike by traditional pumps).Every station I drive through/past, everyone's looking for parking, you suddenly see a whole row of empty bays, and then you see a sign "charging vehicles only" (or something similar...).
MightyBadger said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
I realise there will always be luddites, who don't want an EV because it is something new, and people who don't want an EV because they have special use cases, and people who don't want an EV because the finances don't yet make sense, and others who don't want an EV because they are just not in the market for changing their car at the moment.
However, I believe there are a decent number of people where an EV would be very suitable for their needs, and would objectively be a better vehicle in terms of comfort, performance, ease of use, and cost but they aren't considering one due to prior misconceptions.
My only reason for contributing to this thread isn't to wind up Gary (or whoever else follows him) but to try and help those people perhaps reconsider some of their prior assumptions as most people who do make the switch, don't want to go back.
There are some people who just don't want one because they prefer ICE cars, a lot of pro EV people find that hard to believe. However, I believe there are a decent number of people where an EV would be very suitable for their needs, and would objectively be a better vehicle in terms of comfort, performance, ease of use, and cost but they aren't considering one due to prior misconceptions.
My only reason for contributing to this thread isn't to wind up Gary (or whoever else follows him) but to try and help those people perhaps reconsider some of their prior assumptions as most people who do make the switch, don't want to go back.
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