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Good choice on the RS, the Type-R is a bit of a disaster I think, RS Direct who are not known for cheap prices have a Type R for sale at 23,995, are they not 32,000 new?
Guessing the person they bought it off got about 21,000 if they are selling it for 23,995.
33% depreciation in about 6 months, that is shocking.
Ford was always going to win this battle.
Guessing the person they bought it off got about 21,000 if they are selling it for 23,995.
33% depreciation in about 6 months, that is shocking.
Ford was always going to win this battle.
Hey,
You never knew, I bet, that you could get something seriously special...and rapid...and luxourious...and comfy..and usable...and posh...
Ladies, drop the panties:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/aston...
You never knew, I bet, that you could get something seriously special...and rapid...and luxourious...and comfy..and usable...and posh...
Ladies, drop the panties:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/aston...
Congrats on the ford but I think you should have test driven a C63 first. All the good bits of the m3 without the bad (on the road). They feel miles quicker than a v8 m3 due to the torque. Maybe dry and get a drive to confirm or change your decision? If in Surrey area you're welcome to come out in mine.
mikearwas said:
Congrats on the ford but I think you should have test driven a C63 first. All the good bits of the m3 without the bad (on the road). They feel miles quicker than a v8 m3 due to the torque. Maybe dry and get a drive to confirm or change your decision? If in Surrey area you're welcome to come out in mine.
Thanks mate I do appreciate the offer, but one of the biggest plus points for me on the Focus was that it's a manual, as that's something I've missed enormously on the M3, it just really feels like you're doing more of the driving! Glad you're happy with yours though 
. Hopefully I will be with the Ford in the long term; the command system that ties into nearly everything in the car did really impress me - very modern and thank god touchscreen not iDrive anymore
.It's been a little while but thought I'd resurrect this thread as the RS was not as rewarding to own as I'd initially hoped and thought I'd offer some feedback to some of the other helpful people who commented.
Honestly, looking back on it I have to admit I was kidding myself when I thought I could compromise between an M3 and an Impreza with a Ford, and unfortunately I was proved to be right.
Thought I'd offer my feedback on what happened next for anyone interested. Anyone thinking of buying a Mk3 RS should definitely have a read of the below.
Although the RS initially started out promising, it became progressively debilitating to own to the point where I just wasn't enjoying owning the car anymore.
It didn't start off well.
The dealership I placed the deposit with went bust just 4 weeks before the car was due to arrive, and the purchase was plunged into uncertainty. I wasn't sure whether I'd lose my deposit, if the car would even turn up and so on.
Eventually the purchase was transferred to Think Ford but to be honest I felt they made a bit of a meal of it, and weren't particularly attentive - which considering the service you get from BMW or other prestige dealers when you spend the same (or even less) money, was disappointing.
The car eventually arrived about 3 weeks later than expected - I had to borrow a car off a friend in the interim - so inconvenient but not the end of the world.
When it first arrived, I liked the look of the car, the ride was a little harder than I'd remembered, but it seemed to go alright - I wasn't going to go mad until it was at least bedded in a little.
1000 miles later and off it went to Mountune for the FPM375 kit to be fitted which I'd planned all along as the standard car wasn't all that quick.
With the kit fitted and on the way back the car felt marginally quicker, but still wasn't really setting the world on fire and the car really seemed to run out of puff earlier than expected, even with the foot to the floor to engage the "overboost" feature - another thing I wasn't a fan of as it doesn't really encourage use of the throttle in moderation lol.
I also noticed what appeared to be a problem with the steering where under hard acceleration it would suddenly veer off to one side - the first time it did it it caught me out completely and I nearly ended up in a ditch.
Search the forums and you'll find numerous other complaints of the same - my guess is a software issue where the rear drive unit transfers power back to the front under a certain point of acceleration or speed which completely unsettles the car, and personally whilst you could live with it once you started to expect it, it made the driving less enjoyable.
Off to Ford it went for disabling pull drift compensation, which some members claimed was a partial fix; my own experience was that it did address the issue a small amount, but it was still very much there to the point where a few of my friends commented the car seemed to steer itself when I didn't move the wheel - not confidence inspiring - but even worse is that depending on which dealer you go to, the response varies dramatically - some won't disable it, some claim there isn't an issue, and Ford even issued a Technical Service Bulletin saying the veering issue was a "characteristic" of the car....
Following on from this a few more somewhat major issues started to be reported on forums, the most alarming of which was head gasket failure due to cracked or poorly cast engine blocks on cars up until late 2016, and news of Ford replacing the failed engines but with no official response to the owners in general which I felt was a real failure and lack of openness on their part.
The car I had was a late 2016 model which could well have been affected - with no official response by Ford and the dealer declining to comment, even though I had a warranty, I had no desire to wait and see if my engine *might* blow up...
In addition, reports of exhaust valves sticking and drive mode selection failure on cars which weren't even 6 months old prompted me to start thinking I'd bought the wrong car and needed to consider a sale before the residual values started to be negatively impacted as bad as Honda's FK2 Type R's had been due to low demand.
So, in summary for the performance and handling:
Pros:
- Good gearbox, fairly responsive engine at low revs due to the twinscroll and the 2.3.
- Quick steering
- Plenty of grip although unsympathetic damping can compromise handling on bumpy B road surfaces
Cons:
- The turning circle - worst I've EVER had in any car, simply stupid. Lock to lock I thought my Impreza was bad but the RS makes it look generous. Not good for tight parking manouvres.
- Sudden veering "characteristic" at high speed - dangerous in my opinion; Ford are aware, but seem unable / unwilling to fix the problem even though an owners forum survey showed 40% of owners had reported it.
- Runs out of puff too early in the rev range / gearing not ideal for road driving - means you have to change up mid-overtake on occasion - not a good thing
- Unreliable engines / components (cracked blocks, coolant loss / headgasket issues, problematic exhaust valves, leaking turbo oil seals all reported with numbers rising on a few of those. Whilst every marque has problem cars, the sheer number was concerning for a car that's now been in production over a year).
- Suspension is very firm in normal mode, awful in track mode (draws comparison with CTR FK2!); might be better if you have the standard seats
Practicality wise....
Pros:
- Keyless entry was a big bonus when you have a child to plonk in a car seat every day.
- The stereo - my car had Sync2 which had most of the bells and whistles; the touch screen isn't bad but could be more responsive. Sync 3 looks like a backward step GUI wise, even though it offers more functionality. It was OK.
- Dash layout wasn't actually bad; I don't subscribe to the car snob view that it's too plasticky it's really not too bad and despite claims, a Golf R interior really *isn't* light years ahead. The only annoyance I had was that the fog lamp button was in a difficult to access location that meant you often had to look down to find it.
- Plenty of storage compartments in the cabin to put your stuff
- Door protectors - EVERY car should have these, absolutely brilliant idea
Cons:
- The seats: I took the car for a 400 mile round drive and came to the conclusion that the shell seats, whilst supportive, were just not practical for long journeys due to lack of padding - yes they look cool, but comfy, no. The suspension in normal mode is very stiff, in race mode it's just daft. It might be bearable with the better seats but the shell seats need more stuffing.
The wife and mother also complained that the seats were too high and the high bolsters made getting in and out difficult.
- Boot space: For day to day life, the rear is cramped with the back only just taking a child's car seat touching the front seats (I'm not that tall), and the boot space is just ridiculous - although Ford could probably have added an extra 10 litres of boot space if they'd not put a huge foam insert under the floor instead of just putting the tyre foam in the wheel arch space. You can barely fit a pram in the boot and if you do, you won't get much else in there. Big negative point when you have a toddler, even when yours is the second car.
- The image - every trev in a 206 / Saxo / Corsa / Fiesta wants to race you.
- The plastic fuel flaps start to distort in shape - seen a few owners complaining about this, not just limited to the RS.
I took a look back through what I'd driven, scratched my head for a bit and decided to go and test drive a C63 AMG and to hell with the mpg, just like mikearwas and another of my Mercedes mechanic mates had suggested.
To cut to the chase, I have to admit that they were both on the money.
Not only does the Merc have ludicrous pace and a refined interior, but the mpg isn't actually significantly worse than my old E92 M3.
I test drove a Performance Pack Plus car and finished the test drive with a massive grin on my face and put a deposit down; picked it up a few weeks back and am just loving it - I'm finding excuses to go out and drive it just because....which says to me I may have gotten it right this time even though it's been an expensive exercise to find that out.
Even though it's not a manual and the M3 had put me off in that regard, I find myself forgiving it for that because of the sheer entertainment factor and the power it has, which means I don't have to shift anywhere near as frequently as I did with the BMW to get the best out of it.
You can put your foot down in fourth and it still has bags of go.
Is it compromised? Of course, but we can be objective about the pros and cons.
Cons:
- It's not as nimble as the M3; it feels a heavier car (not nose heavy like an RS5 but just *solid* I guess is the word I'd use - but surprisingly, as I'm starting to find, you can still chuck it into a corner and it digs in and grips with a poise you wouldn't expect.
- It's RWD so will be more of a handful in the winter (probably a big handful!)
- It's a Mercedes so it's not going to be as cheap as a Ford, but I did manage to bag a warranty with mine
- In manual mode, the gearbox is not as good as a BMW DCT, it's a little slower and jerkier but it doesn't detract that much from the experience - AND it's better in auto mode than the M3 was in my opinion.
- The mpg isn't great, but it's not as bad as advertised unless you go REALLY nuts. I've managed 25mpg on a motorway cruise and that's easily as good as the M3 used to return. If you go bonkers you'll be below 15, but the smiles per mile easily forgive that.
- If it tries to kill you, it's your fault, rather than the car trying to "auto" steer you into the nearest ditch (see RS "characteristics")
- The cold start throttle blip is stupid loud - your neighbours will absolutely HATE you if you work late or early shifts!
BUT
- The boot is cavernous in comparison (and bigger than the M3 I think)
- The rear is also a very good size, larger than the M3 and significantly bigger than the Focus
- The POWER is ridiculous - the engine has so much torque instantly available at any speed that it would take something pretty special to destroy this car (like a GTR). Even in comfort mode, as experienced this morning, EP3 Type R's are dispatched with ease lol.
- The NOISE is immense, simply epic. You find yourself driving down the road blipping the throttle just to hear the roar of that v8.
Say what you like, the crappy artificial pops from the RS just annoyed / embarrassed me - the C63 on the other hand just sounds like Satan himself is chasing you right out of hell when you're on it, but the best part is in comfort mode it's remarkably civilised and quiet.
- The cabin is easily as nice if not better than the M3. The seats are more heavily bolstered and adjustable too, so even though the ride isn't as comfy as the M3, the seats compensate.
Every single one of my mates I've taken out in the C63 has said the same thing.
1. We thought you were mad buying an RS, and
2. The C63 is a much much nicer car
Also - every one of them got out of the car giggling like a little kid.
There's something about it you can't describe well on paper, but it's just...well...a bit naughty.
Honestly, looking back on it I have to admit I was kidding myself when I thought I could compromise between an M3 and an Impreza with a Ford, and unfortunately I was proved to be right.
Thought I'd offer my feedback on what happened next for anyone interested. Anyone thinking of buying a Mk3 RS should definitely have a read of the below.
Although the RS initially started out promising, it became progressively debilitating to own to the point where I just wasn't enjoying owning the car anymore.
It didn't start off well.
The dealership I placed the deposit with went bust just 4 weeks before the car was due to arrive, and the purchase was plunged into uncertainty. I wasn't sure whether I'd lose my deposit, if the car would even turn up and so on.
Eventually the purchase was transferred to Think Ford but to be honest I felt they made a bit of a meal of it, and weren't particularly attentive - which considering the service you get from BMW or other prestige dealers when you spend the same (or even less) money, was disappointing.
The car eventually arrived about 3 weeks later than expected - I had to borrow a car off a friend in the interim - so inconvenient but not the end of the world.
When it first arrived, I liked the look of the car, the ride was a little harder than I'd remembered, but it seemed to go alright - I wasn't going to go mad until it was at least bedded in a little.
1000 miles later and off it went to Mountune for the FPM375 kit to be fitted which I'd planned all along as the standard car wasn't all that quick.
With the kit fitted and on the way back the car felt marginally quicker, but still wasn't really setting the world on fire and the car really seemed to run out of puff earlier than expected, even with the foot to the floor to engage the "overboost" feature - another thing I wasn't a fan of as it doesn't really encourage use of the throttle in moderation lol.
I also noticed what appeared to be a problem with the steering where under hard acceleration it would suddenly veer off to one side - the first time it did it it caught me out completely and I nearly ended up in a ditch.
Search the forums and you'll find numerous other complaints of the same - my guess is a software issue where the rear drive unit transfers power back to the front under a certain point of acceleration or speed which completely unsettles the car, and personally whilst you could live with it once you started to expect it, it made the driving less enjoyable.
Off to Ford it went for disabling pull drift compensation, which some members claimed was a partial fix; my own experience was that it did address the issue a small amount, but it was still very much there to the point where a few of my friends commented the car seemed to steer itself when I didn't move the wheel - not confidence inspiring - but even worse is that depending on which dealer you go to, the response varies dramatically - some won't disable it, some claim there isn't an issue, and Ford even issued a Technical Service Bulletin saying the veering issue was a "characteristic" of the car....
Following on from this a few more somewhat major issues started to be reported on forums, the most alarming of which was head gasket failure due to cracked or poorly cast engine blocks on cars up until late 2016, and news of Ford replacing the failed engines but with no official response to the owners in general which I felt was a real failure and lack of openness on their part.
The car I had was a late 2016 model which could well have been affected - with no official response by Ford and the dealer declining to comment, even though I had a warranty, I had no desire to wait and see if my engine *might* blow up...
In addition, reports of exhaust valves sticking and drive mode selection failure on cars which weren't even 6 months old prompted me to start thinking I'd bought the wrong car and needed to consider a sale before the residual values started to be negatively impacted as bad as Honda's FK2 Type R's had been due to low demand.
So, in summary for the performance and handling:
Pros:
- Good gearbox, fairly responsive engine at low revs due to the twinscroll and the 2.3.
- Quick steering
- Plenty of grip although unsympathetic damping can compromise handling on bumpy B road surfaces
Cons:
- The turning circle - worst I've EVER had in any car, simply stupid. Lock to lock I thought my Impreza was bad but the RS makes it look generous. Not good for tight parking manouvres.
- Sudden veering "characteristic" at high speed - dangerous in my opinion; Ford are aware, but seem unable / unwilling to fix the problem even though an owners forum survey showed 40% of owners had reported it.
- Runs out of puff too early in the rev range / gearing not ideal for road driving - means you have to change up mid-overtake on occasion - not a good thing
- Unreliable engines / components (cracked blocks, coolant loss / headgasket issues, problematic exhaust valves, leaking turbo oil seals all reported with numbers rising on a few of those. Whilst every marque has problem cars, the sheer number was concerning for a car that's now been in production over a year).
- Suspension is very firm in normal mode, awful in track mode (draws comparison with CTR FK2!); might be better if you have the standard seats
Practicality wise....
Pros:
- Keyless entry was a big bonus when you have a child to plonk in a car seat every day.
- The stereo - my car had Sync2 which had most of the bells and whistles; the touch screen isn't bad but could be more responsive. Sync 3 looks like a backward step GUI wise, even though it offers more functionality. It was OK.
- Dash layout wasn't actually bad; I don't subscribe to the car snob view that it's too plasticky it's really not too bad and despite claims, a Golf R interior really *isn't* light years ahead. The only annoyance I had was that the fog lamp button was in a difficult to access location that meant you often had to look down to find it.
- Plenty of storage compartments in the cabin to put your stuff
- Door protectors - EVERY car should have these, absolutely brilliant idea
Cons:
- The seats: I took the car for a 400 mile round drive and came to the conclusion that the shell seats, whilst supportive, were just not practical for long journeys due to lack of padding - yes they look cool, but comfy, no. The suspension in normal mode is very stiff, in race mode it's just daft. It might be bearable with the better seats but the shell seats need more stuffing.
The wife and mother also complained that the seats were too high and the high bolsters made getting in and out difficult.
- Boot space: For day to day life, the rear is cramped with the back only just taking a child's car seat touching the front seats (I'm not that tall), and the boot space is just ridiculous - although Ford could probably have added an extra 10 litres of boot space if they'd not put a huge foam insert under the floor instead of just putting the tyre foam in the wheel arch space. You can barely fit a pram in the boot and if you do, you won't get much else in there. Big negative point when you have a toddler, even when yours is the second car.
- The image - every trev in a 206 / Saxo / Corsa / Fiesta wants to race you.
- The plastic fuel flaps start to distort in shape - seen a few owners complaining about this, not just limited to the RS.
I took a look back through what I'd driven, scratched my head for a bit and decided to go and test drive a C63 AMG and to hell with the mpg, just like mikearwas and another of my Mercedes mechanic mates had suggested.
To cut to the chase, I have to admit that they were both on the money.
Not only does the Merc have ludicrous pace and a refined interior, but the mpg isn't actually significantly worse than my old E92 M3.
I test drove a Performance Pack Plus car and finished the test drive with a massive grin on my face and put a deposit down; picked it up a few weeks back and am just loving it - I'm finding excuses to go out and drive it just because....which says to me I may have gotten it right this time even though it's been an expensive exercise to find that out.
Even though it's not a manual and the M3 had put me off in that regard, I find myself forgiving it for that because of the sheer entertainment factor and the power it has, which means I don't have to shift anywhere near as frequently as I did with the BMW to get the best out of it.
You can put your foot down in fourth and it still has bags of go.
Is it compromised? Of course, but we can be objective about the pros and cons.
Cons:
- It's not as nimble as the M3; it feels a heavier car (not nose heavy like an RS5 but just *solid* I guess is the word I'd use - but surprisingly, as I'm starting to find, you can still chuck it into a corner and it digs in and grips with a poise you wouldn't expect.
- It's RWD so will be more of a handful in the winter (probably a big handful!)
- It's a Mercedes so it's not going to be as cheap as a Ford, but I did manage to bag a warranty with mine
- In manual mode, the gearbox is not as good as a BMW DCT, it's a little slower and jerkier but it doesn't detract that much from the experience - AND it's better in auto mode than the M3 was in my opinion.
- The mpg isn't great, but it's not as bad as advertised unless you go REALLY nuts. I've managed 25mpg on a motorway cruise and that's easily as good as the M3 used to return. If you go bonkers you'll be below 15, but the smiles per mile easily forgive that.
- If it tries to kill you, it's your fault, rather than the car trying to "auto" steer you into the nearest ditch (see RS "characteristics")
- The cold start throttle blip is stupid loud - your neighbours will absolutely HATE you if you work late or early shifts!
BUT
- The boot is cavernous in comparison (and bigger than the M3 I think)
- The rear is also a very good size, larger than the M3 and significantly bigger than the Focus
- The POWER is ridiculous - the engine has so much torque instantly available at any speed that it would take something pretty special to destroy this car (like a GTR). Even in comfort mode, as experienced this morning, EP3 Type R's are dispatched with ease lol.
- The NOISE is immense, simply epic. You find yourself driving down the road blipping the throttle just to hear the roar of that v8.
Say what you like, the crappy artificial pops from the RS just annoyed / embarrassed me - the C63 on the other hand just sounds like Satan himself is chasing you right out of hell when you're on it, but the best part is in comfort mode it's remarkably civilised and quiet.
- The cabin is easily as nice if not better than the M3. The seats are more heavily bolstered and adjustable too, so even though the ride isn't as comfy as the M3, the seats compensate.
Every single one of my mates I've taken out in the C63 has said the same thing.
1. We thought you were mad buying an RS, and
2. The C63 is a much much nicer car
Also - every one of them got out of the car giggling like a little kid.
There's something about it you can't describe well on paper, but it's just...well...a bit naughty.
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 15th May 12:55
Thanks for updating this, always interesting to hear how things worked out. I was in a similar quandary last year..
can I live with an auto?, I could lease a new car for similar money..., new focus RS looks interesting, m3? choices choices....
went with a c63 estate in the end, very happy. Just the right combination of occasion and practicality, still love it 6 months later. I have no idea what could replace it and tick as many boxes...
can I live with an auto?, I could lease a new car for similar money..., new focus RS looks interesting, m3? choices choices....
went with a c63 estate in the end, very happy. Just the right combination of occasion and practicality, still love it 6 months later. I have no idea what could replace it and tick as many boxes...
Edited by hairybiddy on Friday 5th May 16:09
arj7 said:
How much did the c63 end up costing?
How have you found it with the baby?
I got a 12 plate with PPP. How have you found it with the baby?
Cost just north of £30k, they appear to be holding their values just as well as the E92 M3's if not better as they're rarer. They also don't have the rod clearance and throttle actuator issues that seem to frequently affect M3's so pretty happy overall so far.
Whilst I cannot fault BMW Customer service for their professional and efficient response during my ownership, 3 problems in 9 months of ownership on a 3 year old car did not install a sense of confidence in its reliability!
I can only hope the C63 will be a little less fragile.
With the baby it's so much easier to live with than the Ford.
I personally think the saloon C63 suits the body shape better than the Coupe (thought the opposite of the E92), and discounted the 3 door on account that having to move electric seats to get people in the back was a total pain for kids.
The wife and mother both agree the seats are much easier to get in and out (guess that's the complaint about seats being too high in the Focus).
The rear seating area is bigger so where the car seat used to touch the back of the driver's seat in the Ford, in the Mercedes I can extend it fully forward to give the little guy more leg room so he's happier too, and there's still plenty of clearance between his seat and the back of mine.
The boot is massive - did a trip to the in laws and it took the pram, 3 kit bags, a travel cot and a smaller bag.
The Focus would have managed about one kit bag and the pram if I was lucky.
If we're being awful about it - the interior is full rather than half leather too so also wipe clean if that's a bonus - although if you're like me eating in the car is banned
Edited by mrnoisy78 on Monday 15th May 17:29
3 months on and still very much enjoying this car.
I've also been surprised how good the paint is on them, much better than the M3 was - the only area it appears susceptible to chips is the rear arch / door shut area which has a few marks, so may look to have those touched up and some PPF fitted to protect it - I know my M3 had this which I think comes from the factory?
Started playing with the "Sport Handling Mode" a bit more through the summer to much amusement.
I've also nearly gone through the set of continentals that came on the rear tyres...oops!
Took the car down to Hughes in Beaconsfield for a free checkup as the warranty was nearly up, and everything came back with a clean bill of health - looked remarkably tidy underneath for a 5 year old car.
It's not due a B service until next year, and I'll likely invest in a service plan as they're offering a discount until October, so will probably do that, should make it a bit cheaper in the long term.
Reliability wise it hasn't skipped a beat, and the fun factor is still very much there. Can't recommend them enough.
The only negative input I had was from my Mum who announced on a recent family visit that it was a firmer ride than the M3.
She's right I admit - I haven't driven had a car yet that rivals the M3's EDC comfort mode - except an M4 in comfort(!) but in contrast to the Focus RS the Merc is still a sofa LOL.
I've also been surprised how good the paint is on them, much better than the M3 was - the only area it appears susceptible to chips is the rear arch / door shut area which has a few marks, so may look to have those touched up and some PPF fitted to protect it - I know my M3 had this which I think comes from the factory?
Started playing with the "Sport Handling Mode" a bit more through the summer to much amusement.
I've also nearly gone through the set of continentals that came on the rear tyres...oops!
Took the car down to Hughes in Beaconsfield for a free checkup as the warranty was nearly up, and everything came back with a clean bill of health - looked remarkably tidy underneath for a 5 year old car.
It's not due a B service until next year, and I'll likely invest in a service plan as they're offering a discount until October, so will probably do that, should make it a bit cheaper in the long term.
Reliability wise it hasn't skipped a beat, and the fun factor is still very much there. Can't recommend them enough.
The only negative input I had was from my Mum who announced on a recent family visit that it was a firmer ride than the M3.
She's right I admit - I haven't driven had a car yet that rivals the M3's EDC comfort mode - except an M4 in comfort(!) but in contrast to the Focus RS the Merc is still a sofa LOL.
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